A Google question...I've never seen this before

[CaptainJSparrow]

I have a site that is bouncing around between #11 and #6 for its target keyword phrase, right now...I see it in different places everytime I re-search at google. Now this in itself is not terribly unusual. Could be a dance, if they still do that, or just the everflux shuffling my site upwards. However, Google is also now sometimes showing the site without the "www" in front of the url (it's never done that, and the non-www version has a higher page rank). Does anyone have a clue why, after all these years, Google is finally showing my site (sometimes) in the results without the "www" in the url?

Also, what're you seeing...is this another "dance" or just the normal Google shuffle?

[AussieWebmaster]

The dropping of the www is a little weird... did you have it listed that way at dmoz perhaps? or some other place where Google first came across the site? That could do it.
Maybe a submission program you used did it that way.

The jumping would happen in an area that has a lot of places crawled on a daily basis and if they change their content.

Try www.digitalpoint.com it is a free google tracker for keywords... very handy.

[Alphawolf]

To check the datacenters you can go here:

http://www.seochat.com/googledance

It's pretty normal to be higher in some DC's and lower in others.

[urb]

Inbound links with or without the www. IMO split the potential of a site's PR.

Do it with or without, but be consistant.

I may be wrong, but I've always tried to use www. in every external inbound hyperlink.

[CaptainJSparrow]

I've heard to definitely pick a version of your site, either with the www or without, and stick with it. We chose to promote this site without the www but google always lists it with the www in the url. We have alot of other sites, done the same way, that google does not use the www when listing them.

For some reason, google changed the way this site is listed on some of the data centers to show it without the www....which is what I always wanted (that version has more backlinks and a higher page rank).

Anyway, the reason for my post was to see if this had ever happened to anyone else, or if anyone had any theories as to why this happened now.

Are ya'll seeing dance type moves in Google. A number of our sites moved up yesterday, just wondering if anyone else is seeing similar moves with their sites.

[Linkster]

Recent major updates Ive seen some tweaking on the scripts Google uses that seem to negate that www.domain.com vs domain.com effect - Ive seen some backlinks coming into the www version that are definitely listed onthe other site without a www - so they must be trying

There was a small SERP update that started yesterday - combination of fresh and the effects of the last backlinks update on the 11th. Ive seen some bouncing on listings - looks like some new SERPs on the www-in.google.com server? I dont think they have finished though as they have come and gone - maybe trying some new filters - but doesnt look major from here?

[xxxjay]

You would figure that as technicality advanced as Google is – they could figure that www thing out.

[AussieWebmaster]

You answered this yourself without realizing it.

For some reason, google changed the way this site is listed on some of the data centers to show it without the www....which is what I always wanted (that version has more backlinks and a higher page rank).

The fact that this version has more backlinks while I am sure your outbound links are mostlt at the www version has allowed the other to surface higher.

Anyway, the reason for my post was to see if this had ever happened to anyone else, or if anyone had any theories as to why this happened now.

The Florida shake up worked hardest on linking. Your other www listing has recips which have been down played and so most probably do the competition... you floated up by having links to you without the www, a nice piece of luck.

[Bill]

Actually I've seen something like it a fair number of times, seen it especially in some older mainstream work I've done, I have always associated it with google deciding which of the two it is going to list, and which it will devalue for similarity.

In the past I've seen and had disappointments when google rejected the version I was trying to emphasize.

The solution is, as others have said, to be consistent in your use of the two versions in linking. I try to avoid the use of the shorter version, as my experience is that the creamy surfers tend to add the www.

But this is new algo time (that is, google keeps experimenting with minor variations, thus "new algo".), so who knows what is really happening in this case.

[Linkster]

Thinking about this yesterday - I believe that its actually a problem caused on the server side of things - I can find plenty of examples where someones domain with and without www. are the same even down to the backlinks listed are exactly the same - because of the server config where the domain resides
On others where the server is not set up to redirect correctly, the backlinks are definitely different and PR shows differently

I say not set up correctly - but Im not sure yet which is the correct way

[CaptainJSparrow]

In this particular example, our server is set up to default (C-name) to the non-www version. The site is 8 years old. In the past, we used to link to it using the www. For some reason, about 2 years ago, I made the decision to link to it and our other sites without using the www in front. Both versions of the site are identical.

Bill, I think that you're right that google somehow makes a decision to determine which it will list, the www or non-www url of a site whether the site is identical or not (I didn't know that they could not be identical).

In my case, google has been listing the www version for years even though we've been promoting the non-www version. Now, all of a sudden, with no rhyme or reason, I'm seeing the site sometimes listed without the www. I prefer this because that url has more backlinks and higher page rank.

[xxxjay]

One thing I do - if you are going back and forth between www and no www -- search for you site on google, and then build off whatever comes up in the serps.

ie www or no www

[AussieWebmaster]

You are answering your own question... you have been listing the non www and obviouly some have been to the www... your recip links are going from the www address I would imagine... it has been the return links that have lowered the www ranking as their reciped inbounds have lost their count to your PR.

Florida downscaled the value of recip links... thus the non www which I am think does not have as many of your outbound links, is getting the better play... your competitors are in the same boat but do not have the non-www and have lost ground compared to you

[Linkster]

Wow I love assumptions and baseless theories being put out as fact

[CaptainJSparrow]

With or without the www, the site is identical...ie when I put an outgoing link up it shows whether you type in the www or not in the url. I don't think that that has anything to do with it.

[AussieWebmaster]

Originally posted by Linkster
Wow I love assumptions and baseless theories being put out as fact

I do have a good knowledge of Google... and he did ask for possible reasons.. the one I cover is the most likely one... could there be others of course... without full knowledge about submissions etc etc it is just the most likely answer.

[CaptainJSparrow]

Just an FYI, the changes that everyone is seeing in the serps at google...I saw alot/ most of them last monday when looking at results at different data centers. I think that this dance started on the 18th. That would make this the longest, or 2nd longest dance that I've seen. Does anyone remember the dance that either took about 2 weeks to complete, or it was started - stopped - then restarted again and completed within the last year or so? After that dance, did they keep those results for a few months?

[AussieWebmaster]

Yeah they are at it again... seems the links are being given the once through again... even blogs are loosing a little ground... they must have installed some algo that holds the higher PR and relevancy pages in good stead while washing the impact of the rest... I have noticed a drop in the inbound links as well... but AllTheWeb shows them increasing steadily...
may have to work the alt tags of the inbound images...

[Linkster]

Originally posted by CaptainJSparrow
I saw alot/ most of them last monday when looking at results at different data centers.

I saw them messing with the results then also - the only difference for me (I didnt look at anybody elses LOL) was that what they were showing back then is not whats shown now - an example (although this is a beef I have with Google right now) is that I was ranking #10 or 11 for "sex" - worldsex was right behind me, and janes guide was around #5 or 6. During that first mixing of results last week I had moved up to #5, Jane was #7 and worldsex was 10. Then this weekend they decided that "mature category" sites in the top 20 should be censored out of the results for "sex" so we are all gone and nowhere to be found for that word although I havent looked past about #300.
The funny thing is that after #20 all of the mature category sites are still there so its my opinion that it was a hand edit of some kind.
We all still rank on every other search term exactly where we were before or better, so I have to believe that Google just used their selective censoring for that one keyword - some have suggested that it was an adwords ploy - but Google doesnt list adwords for the keyword sex in the main index - only in some country indexes like the uk and au.
The other result of this is that Yahoo (which was using Google results for the keyword sex) has reverted to their own hand-edited version of the SERPs when searching from the Yahoo portal page - but only when you have 20 results set as your default LOL - its the standard entry portal setting. Interesting changes but I have to believe its something to do with Google getting ready for the "real world" of business.

[CaptainJSparrow]

Linkster, for the term "sex" I don't see adult sites in the top 10 on google...just educational type stuff. What url did you have showing up well?

[Linkster]

I had my LL - linkforsex.com in there Janes and Worldsex were there also

[CaptainJSparrow]

yeah, it appears that google is trying to default away from adult sites when there is a question as to what the surfer is looking for.

[AussieWebmaster]

It has been given a name "Austin" and figures to complete the wash Google was going for with Florida...

[AussieWebmaster]

This is a decent thread and forum for search engine enthusiasts

http://www.highrankings.com/forum/in...ic=3219&st=135

[eatapeach]

Originally posted by CaptainJSparrow
yeah, it appears that google is trying to default away from adult sites when there is a question as to what the surfer is looking for.

never mind that a huge percentage of people online wouldn't be there if it wasn't for the adult sites.

i know i wouldn't be