What Ratio Do You Value?

[Licker4U]

I have a sponsor that counts 1st page hits, 2nd page hits and join page hits. The sales average they post is based on 2nd page hits. Here's an example for the last 7 days:

1st page hits: 3,502
2nd page hits: 427
Join page hits: 750

I had one sale so they say my sales ratio is 1:427. I don't know if 1st page hits is uniques or raw but either way I think this ratio sucks. What do you consider a valid ration? I'm considering moving to yet another sponsor chasing the elusive ratios I used to have.

[Mr Exotic]

First page is the only one that matters to me. 2nd page and join hits all depend on the tour of the site.

[Useless]

First page hits is the most important number. Sponsors who don't report first page hits don't want you to see how much traffic you are REALLY sending them and how poorly they REALLY convert. The second page and join page hits are only there so that they can see that their skim is working properly.

[[BV]]

Originally Posted by Useless Warrior

First page hits is the most important number. Sponsors who don't report first page hits don't want you to see how much traffic you are REALLY sending them and how poorly they REALLY convert. The second page and join page hits are only there so that they can see that their skim is working properly.

I agree, 1st page hits are best as long as they are uniques and not raw. 1st page raws and you're back to being blind again.

CCBill only reported 1st page raw hits for the longest time. This made all CCBill sites have higher ratios compared to sponsors that based their ratos off 1st page uniques or deeper.

I mention this here for those of you that might not know that CCBill now reports both 1st page raws & uniques to affiliates. (The sponsor has to activate this feature which is in their best interest to do so because it will only make them look better by having a lower ratio.)

CCBill also added another feature where if the sponsor chooses they can also report 2nd & 3rd page hits along with the 1st. (They have always reported join page hits) To enable the sponsor has to add some code to the tours and enable this feature in their CCBill admin. This feature is good for seeing how deep your surfers go into the site and how many just hit the first page, say fuck this, and hit the back button.

If your CCBill sponsors arent showing 1st page uniques along with it's usual raw hits in your stats, hit them up, they might not even know about it.

The more stats the better but reporting the ratios should be based on 1st page uniques in my book. (not 2nd or join or raws)

As much as I love Ratios they really are almost useless (to a point) for comparing one site to another, but are very helpful for seeing how different traffic sources you send at the same site convert.

Once you try to use it as a basis of comparing different sponsors it gets tricky. Especially using other peoples ratios. There are just too many variables that affect ratios. The technique and source the affiliate used to send the hits as well as the aggressiveness of the sponsors fhg, hfs and tours all play on ratios.

They do however help when things are out of hand. If you send 5-10,000 hits to a sponsor and no sales, then something is obviously wrong with them (unless all your traffic is coming from a hit bot or a 3rd world country.)

[emmanuelle]

Originally Posted by [BV]

If your CCBill sponsors arent showing 1st page uniques along with it's usual raw hits in your stats, hit them up, they might not even know about it.

Thanks for the tip, why don't they ever tell us about these new features?

I have a question though about the section right above there-
should those uniques be tracked by
- IP Address and Browser Digest
- Cookie
- IP/Browser and Cookie
- IP/Browser or Cookie
???????????

As much as I love GG's 1:7 join page ratios,
I'd like to present the most accurate picture as possible.

[[BV]]

Originally Posted by emmanuelle

Thanks for the tip, why don't they ever tell us about these new features?

I have a question though about the section right above there-
should those uniques be tracked by
- IP Address and Browser Digest
- Cookie
- IP/Browser and Cookie
- IP/Browser or Cookie
???????????

As much as I love GG's 1:7 join page ratios,
I'd like to present the most accurate picture as possible.

They announced in your admin August last year. I'ts in the archives.
I'm using: - IP Address and Browser Digest (the first one) I called wondering about the same thing.




https://webadmin.ccbill.com/readNewsItem.cgi?mid=9453

Announcing NEW Affiliate System Upgrades
Posted August 18th, 2006 11:09:08, by CCBill Management
CCBILL LAUNCHES NEW AFFILIATE SYSTEM CLICK TRACKING FEATURES!!!

We are excited to announce new changes and upgrades to the SET UP and REPORTS areas of the AFFILIATE TAB. This improved tools and reporting functionality includes the following new features:


- AFFILIATE CLICK TRACKING: Choose the types of click tracking desired and define unique tracking for your Affiliates.

- CLICK TRACKING HISTORY DROPDOWN: View past settings for the account and re-activate those settings.

- AFFILIATE VIEWS: Choose the level of detail viewable by your Affiliates on the Affiliate Admin System (Raw, Unique, Second Page or Form).

- ADDITIONAL PAGE CLICK: Generate the HTML to place on your Tour pages that will track how far into your site tour (3 page limit) a referred consumer browser.

- SALES PER CLICK REPORT: View the data pertaining to your Affiliate's total sales and clicks tracked. This report will now breakdown and produce clicks and ratio information on the following click types: Raw, Unique, Raw Second Page, Unique Second Page and Forms.

- PAGE VIEWS REPORT: View detailed data surrounding Raw Clicks and Unique Clicks.

With this upgrade, the following Affiliate System terms and references have also changed:

- Raw Clicks: (formerly known as “clicks”) View the total number of times a banner or link advertisement is selected by a consumer.

- Raw Ratio: (formerly known as “clicks”) Provides the proportion of sales to raw clicks, based on your search parameters.

- Form Clicks: View the number of times consumers click on your sign up Form, based on your search parameters.

- Form Click Ratio: Provides you with the ratio of sales to form clicks for the search parameter provided.

If you have any questions regarding this or any other CCBill System5 feature, please feel free to contact us at clientsupport@ccbill.com.

Many thanks for your attention to this matter.

The Staff at CCBill.com

[Ramster]

First page is the only way. Raw and unique is nice to know too but 1st page only!

[SirMoby]

I'm mostly concerned about money in my pocket.

1:300 with trials that don't rebill might not be good
1:1,500 with full memberships that rebill forever

Which one will put more money in my pocket thing year?

[jayeff]

Conversion ratios are almost totally meaningless:

1. Because of differences in the way sponsors record their stats, at the very least you would need to compare sales against click stats of your own.
2. Why should conversion ratios be consistent when promotions run from freebies to high-cost products and cover everything between?
3. What do conversion ratios tell you unless you relate them to income: particularly with recurring programs?
4. If you want to see just how meaningless conversion ratios are, stick up a blind link in a prominent position. Your conversion ratios will go down the toilet, but your income may actually increase.

People focus on conversion ratios, no matter how many times they are said to be near useless, because they can. And hey, better to be doing something and better still if it's easy. The only relationship which really matters is earnings per impression, because two things determine your income: traffic and the effectiveness of the promo spots you display to that traffic.

Unfortunately, it isn't a simple calculation. You should reasonably expect prime promo spots to perform better than secondary ones, big promos to do better than small. Thus you cannot say I showed Sponsor A's promo the same number of times as Sponsor B's, but earned more from B, therefore he is better. You need to either figure out a balancing factor or compare the results of sponsors to whom you have given a similar "quality" of exposure (ie one group for those to whom you gave a space of their own at the top of your page, another for those appearing only in a list of links, etc).

Not straightforward, but then why track stats at all, unless they actually mean something?

[Licker4U]

OK, so based on my numbers above, which is for one week, that's .01/click. I'll check some monthly and six month totals before I move on. I know you can go two weeks with nothing then boom, several sales back to back.

[Greenguy]

Originally Posted by Licker4U

OK, so based on my numbers above, which is for one week, that's .01/click. I'll check some monthly and six month totals before I move on. I know you can go two weeks with nothing then boom, several sales back to back.

If you're 1:3502 now, I would not go much past 5000 hits before I made my judgment (if I didn't pull them today, because that ratio is horrible)

[Licker4U]

Originally Posted by Greenie

If you're 1:3502 now, I would not go much past 5000 hits before I made my judgment (if I didn't pull them today, because that ratio is horrible)

I know, that ratio is worse than a link list ratio

[Greenguy]

I agree with the 1st part of what Useless said

1st page clicks along with money per click are the 2 totals you should
be worrying about.

[jonnydoe]

To me your real ratio there is 1:3502...I use $ per unique because you can try and compare from one sponsor to the next that way. Some of my sponsors don't even show you raws... I think the sponsor you are referring to does not show you the raws as well. Another way sponsors try to make there numbers look better is by using "qualified" hits. Then with some sponsors I know that they simply are not reporting all of my hits...

[nekrom]

Ratios I'm not that fussed about. I'm more about the unique traffic, 1st page hits, sent (counted via an out script) & compared to cost per click and my bottom line. But in saying that I like my ratios under 1:1200.

-N

[Schpork]

I would say Unique 1st page to Sales, just because Join:Sales is useless, then u got the ratio Unique 1st page:join aswell, kinda useless. Anyway, so you say your ratio is 1:3502.. well thats kind of low, but remember that a sale is just one guy that bought something. you can just as well get another sale off the next 50 uniques that you send.. you never know, ratio's are not even near accurate..

[nibbler]

Ok, going off on a small tangent. I have a CCBill sponsor that converts better than 1:500. Great ... except for the fact that rebills are less than 20%. So do you keep them or not? |confused|

[[BV]]

Originally Posted by nibbler

Ok, going off on a small tangent. I have a CCBill sponsor that converts better than 1:500. Great ... except for the fact that rebills are less than 20%. So do you keep them or not? |confused|

30%-35% is about average so 20% is a little low. But 1:500 sounds good but there are so many other variables consider.


That 1:500 is probably RAW, in reality your more like 1:350, and that would be 1st page. which = dam good, so in essence you would have to replace it with a site that converted 1:700 with a 40% rebill just to do the same thing providing the membership costs are the same for both.

So another reason why ratios are meaningless by themselves and why you need to look at the bottom line, how much $ you make from it versus another site in it's place.

[nibbler]

Originally Posted by [BV]

30%-35% is about average so 20% is a little low. But 1:500 sounds good but there are so many other variables consider.


That 1:500 is probably RAW, in reality your more like 1:350, and that would be 1st page. which = dam good, so in essence you would have to replace it with a site that converted 1:700 with a 40% rebill just to do the same thing providing the membership costs are the same for both.

So another reason why ratios are meaningless by themselves and why you need to look at the bottom line, how much $ you make from it versus another site in it's place.

You're absolutely right. Ideally, in a situation like this, i'd switch over to PPS. Unfortunately, that option is not offered.

[[BV]]

Originally Posted by nibbler

You're absolutely right. Ideally, in a situation like this, i'd switch over to PPS. Unfortunately, that option is not offered.

Well that's a whole other argument in itself. (Revshare versus PPS)

[Greenguy]

Originally Posted by [BV]

30%-35% is about average so 20% is a little low...

My traffic must suck, because I'm happy when 20% of my signups rebill at least once

Based on the last CCBill Stats run I posted, I had 21 programs with 50+ total signups. The best rebill percent was 37.33% & the worst was 11.59%

But you then have to look at other factors, like money per click - I had one rebilling at 12% that's getting $0.04/click & one rebilling at 26% that's getting $0.03/click.

There's so many factors you have to look at with revshare programs that it boggles the mind.

[Licker4U]

Well, I checked every tour at that one sponsor that had any sales and my $'s/click sucks everywhere. The best was .02/click so I built a site for a sponsor I haven't promoted for six months and submitted it yesterday. 14 uniques and one signup. It was some kind of web900 that paid $10.00. That's .71/click!

(I don't have any preconceived ideas, I know it won't hold up but it sure was nice to see )

[jonnydoe]

Originally Posted by Greenie

My traffic must suck, because I'm happy when 20% of my signups rebill at least once

Based on the last CCBill Stats run I posted, I had 21 programs with 50+ total signups. The best rebill percent was 37.33% & the worst was 11.59%

But you then have to look at other factors, like money per click - I had one rebilling at 12% that's getting $0.04/click & one rebilling at 26% that's getting $0.03/click.

There's so many factors you have to look at with revshare programs that it boggles the mind.

Hey Greenie...Do those numbers include rebills from trials? I picked up a new sponsor recently and was chatting with the rep. and he indicated that I could expect about 20% of my trials to rebill. Most of the stuff I have done in the past has been PPS so I really don't have a good concept of what I should expect.

[tickler]

I use the first page Unq:Sales mainly.

But, I also evaluate the Unq:Join and Join:Sales ratios also. Sometimes the tour needs to be modified to get more people through to actual sales pages.

[jonnydoe]

My overall results aren't much better at .019 but my "jewels" are yielding .053 and .086...I hope these hold up ;-)