I just "broke" the penisbot captcha... Further to the Captcha discussion...

[Viper]

Originally Posted by Lemmy

I'm probably one of the more prolific freesite submitters on this board with about 800 sites under my belt and my submit list has at times included as many as 144 LLs.

Where did you come up with the idea that I hold submitters in disdain? I hold crybabies in disdain.

You hold them in disdain because you're automatic response is to label them as crybabes and whiners... Aren't you the one who just got thru a personal pity party and reopened your sites? Perhaps instead of spending all that time submitting sites by hand you should have been spending time accepting submissions and reviewing them to build up PR and real traffic to your site.. lets see.. right now one of your sites has sent me a total of 3 hits compared to an open submission site like greenguys that's sent the same free site 209 in the same period... This is a business and everything you do needs to be analized from a ROI standpoint.

I'm trying to have a serious discussion about the issue of auto-submitters and cheaters and how to combat them and all you guys can do is talk about crybabies and whiners. But if you want to sling shit go right ahead.. I'm in a piss poor mood anyway so should fit right in here...

[Lemmy]

Originally Posted by Viper

You hold them in disdain because you're automatic response is to label them as crybabes and whiners... Aren't you the one who just got thru a personal pity party and reopened your sites? Perhaps instead of spending all that time submitting sites by hand you should have been spending time accepting submissions and reviewing them to build up PR and real traffic to your site.. lets see.. right now one of your sites has sent me a total of 3 hits compared to an open submission site like greenguys that's sent the same free site 209 in the same period... This is a business and everything you do needs to be analized from a ROI standpoint.

I'm trying to have a serious discussion about the issue of auto-submitters and cheaters and how to combat them and all you guys can do is talk about crybabies and whiners. But if you want to sling shit go right ahead.. I'm in a piss poor mood anyway so should fit right in here...

I fail to see what my personal pity party has to do with anything. I didn't label submitters in general as whiners and crybabies. That was directed specifically at you.

So Greenie sends you about 70 times the traffic as I do, big deal, it means I'm doing better than I thought.

[Viper]

Originally Posted by Lemmy

That was directed specifically at you.

Exactly.. and you had absolutely no cause to do that other than you don't want to hear the message, especially since you just reopened your sites for submission and now will have to deal with all of this again. What made you even think I was whining in the first place? I think I've clearly shown I have the skills to auto submit to every LL out there... So what's my purpose? As I said in the very first post, to educate.... I suspect you've turned your own frustration and anger towards auto submiters and cheaters on me... I've outlined in this thread and the other how everything you've done or are going to try and do is basically ineffective at stopping it.. So you'd rather shoot the messenger than try and have a discussion about how to work to make things better... You'd rather just carry on penalizing the honest hand submitters while accepting all the auto submitter sites.

[horney]

Viper, I'm not a list owner. At this early stage in my involvement with this business, I have no idea whether I ever shall be. I also agree with some of the points you made about more proactive server side measures which can and should be taken against miscreants in order to make the lives of everybody here, in particular, easier.

However, I'm not convinced too may of these guys have enough server side access to be able to implement such measures, or the skills to do so if they had.

Take just one expression you used. A very practical, effective measure if implemented with the relevant level of discretion: IP blocking. Ffs, how many of the guys here even understand the term.

So let's take another: your inference that you could crack a random series of questions I find more questionable but I'll bet the guys here didn't. I'll bet their eyes just glazed over.

So if you want to discuss and educate, I'd respectfully suggest you attempt an awful lot of educating first.

[Viper]

Originally Posted by horney

Viper, I'm not a list owner. At this early stage in my involvement with this business, I have no idea whether I ever shall be. I also agree with some of the points you made about more proactive server side measures which can and should be taken against miscreants in order to make the lives of everybody here, in particular, easier.

However, I'm not convinced too may of these guys have enough server side access to be able to implement such measures, or the skills to do so if they had.

Take just one expression you used. A very practical, effective measure if implemented with the relevant level of discretion: IP blocking. Ffs, how many of the guys here even understand the term.

So let's take another: your inference that you could crack a random series of questions I find more questionable but I'll bet the guys here didn't. I'll bet their eyes just glazed over.

So if you want to discuss and educate, I'd respectfully suggest you attempt an awful lot of educating first.

What would be the end result of this discussion? That the link list owners begin to demand the proper features in their LL software which is where all those things should be in the first place... but until the community builds a concensus, that won't happen.

I'm also "hopefull" that maybe some of the guys that write that software might stumble accross these threads and implement a bunch of these things all on their own. But then again, the LL side of things is so small compared to the TGP side that there might not be enough money it in for them to actually do it. Come to think of it.. Even with all the money and traffic on the TGP side I don't think there's any TGP software that deals with this stuff either...

[horney]

If everybody's eyes glaze over and they all stumble off to bed, not much of any kind of demanding or provisioning is likely to materialise.

IMHO, the question needs addressing from another direction.

And hey, folks, that's my hundredth post! Shit, I'm talking too much!

[KG Gary]

I agree with Licker4U's comments, especially the good will issue. I'm here for the long haul and building good relationships with link list owners is vital. What happens when those smaller link lists grow? I'd like to be able to say that I helped build up someone's business and they helped build mine.

penalizing the honest hand submitters

How are they penalized? Not much will stop me from submitting my free sites, always by hand, especially a 30 second code issue. It's not a penalty, it's a great way to get quality traffic.
Is there some new way of doing this that that will make the link list owners' lives easier? Will it make my submitting a lot more fluid?
You sound either really bitter about something or you sound like you have a product to push somewhere down the line.

Man, spending an hour and a half breaking those codes, you could have built a decent freesite in that time!
Oh, and I'm a full-time submitter, approaching 500 freesites in almost two years, very few declines, I have five children and I like Abba.


Congrats on the big 100 horney!

[Lemmy]

Originally Posted by Viper

Exactly.. and you had absolutely no cause to do that other than you don't want to hear the message, especially since you just reopened your sites for submission and now will have to deal with all of this again. What made you even think I was whining in the first place? I think I've clearly shown I have the skills to auto submit to every LL out there... So what's my purpose? As I said in the very first post, to educate.... I suspect you've turned your own frustration and anger towards auto submiters and cheaters on me... I've outlined in this thread and the other how everything you've done or are going to try and do is basically ineffective at stopping it.. So you'd rather shoot the messenger than try and have a discussion about how to work to make things better... You'd rather just carry on penalizing the honest hand submitters while accepting all the auto submitter sites.

I think you're whining because you're making such a big deal out of nothing. While captcha may not be the final solution to LL owners' woes it does for a fact cut out a significant percentage of the crap and I fail to see that it's such an inconvenience to submitters. You may be enough of a wiz kid to fool my script (or anybody else's), but if you had done your homework and checked my Alexa ranking you would have known it was a waste of time in the first place.

Just get over it. If you're as experienced in this business as you say you are, you must know by now that there's actually some work involved.

You can preach the benefits of autosubmitting 'til you're blue in the face, but I don't think you're gonna find many converts here.

[Viper]

Originally Posted by Lemmy

I think you're whining because you're making such a big deal out of nothing. While captcha may not be the final solution to LL owners' woes it does for a fact cut out a significant percentage of the crap and I fail to see that it's such an inconvenience to submitters. You may be enough of a wiz kid to fool my script (or anybody else's), but if you had done your homework and checked my Alexa ranking you would have known it was a waste of time in the first place.

Just get over it. If you're as experienced in this business as you say you are, you must know by now that there's actually some work involved.

You can preach the benefits of autosubmitting 'til you're blue in the face, but I don't think you're gonna find many converts here.

Go back and read what I've actually been attempting to communicate... Nowhere have I preached the benifits of auto-submitting...

[Useless]

Originally Posted by Viper

Go back and read what I've actually been attempting to communicate...

Please state what you are trying to communicate. I've read this thread a bunch of times and you are the only one I'm not following.

Before you do to me what you've done to my friends, Lemmy and Sheepguy - I'm not claiming to have any traffic. There, now you don't have to insult my abilities or my lists.

[Viper]

Originally Posted by Useless Warrior

Please state what you are trying to communicate. I've read this thread a bunch of times and you are the only one I'm not following.

Before you do to me what you've done to my friends, Lemmy and Sheepguy - I'm not claiming to have any traffic. There, now you don't have to insult my abilities or my lists.

Usually I just ignore those that "attack" me first but as I said, my patience level for that today is very low... You've called me "names" in the past.. Thanks for not jumping on the bandwagon... yet...

I would think it's very clear what I'm trying to communicate.. Captcha, partner signups.. None of that is going to stop what you're trying to stop.. In fact, it tends to make it worse as you end up getting less "real" people sending you submissions.. So your % of crap to good goes up... Also, if you're not seeing what the cheaters are submitting, then it makes it harder to actually catch them... The phrase about keeping your enemies closer does actually apply here as well.

In the other thread I gave a list of some solutions to the problems of cheaters and auto-submitters.. In this thread I've said clearly that all those solutions should be part of the software you use and that if the LL owners actually discussed this and realized that the tools they're using are inadequate, they could get the software companies to build better tools for them... Keep in mind that I know that not ALL of the LLs have crap tools... The top few LLs are going to have some good tools.. but it's all the other LL owners I'm atempting but clearly failing at reaching.

You know... why the fuck do I even care... Truth is.. the more failures there are out there the more money I (and the big LLS owners) can make.. and I should have known better than try and have this sort of discussion on this board... I'm going to respond to Lemmy again and then go eat something and relax..