1001 questions from a newbie.... me.

Kisa · 2008-11-22, 06:48 AM

Thanks for your input Ned. I appreciate it!

I guess all that stuff is the marketing person in me who went from being an overpaid, Bay Area ad exec to just another casualty of this grandly fucked up economy. From the few weeks I've been around, I can honestly say that if some of the people running this industry were out there contributing in more of the mainstream companies, we'd be much better off! I'm serious! I can't tell you how many dumbasses who are supposed 'internet marketing' geniuses, I've worked with! If I make even a couple of dollars doing this then it's a bonus because really I became obsessed because of the structure of it all and what I'm learning is invaluable! Seriously, porn webmasters need to takeover everywhere- my snobby neighbor is an executive at CNET and thinks himself the master of internet marketing. I promise anyone of you could do his job ten times over in your sleep!

About the warning page, I thought that was required? But I don't mind getting rid of it. So am I screwed already because google has been crawling my site like crazy the past week?

NY Jester- thanks so much for your advice too! Yeah, I like what you said about the structure and that's basically what I've been doing without really knowing if that's what I was supposed to be doing. hahaha

Yeah I can definitely install wordpress on my domain... I never thought about the 'sending people' away thing. SEE! All those years in the internet/ tech industry and I never thought of that! And NO! That's not why I lost my job! heh

Maybe one of you should take over Yahoo....

Okay, this is all great advice. I'll definitely be making the changes. Thanks so much. I can't wait to learn more-

Useless · 2008-11-22, 10:09 AM

First, let's establish what your site is. It is, of course, a free site, but, as stated, it is far from being the type of free site that most link lists will considering listing. But you don't need to change anything about your current site to get in on the free site game. You'll want to learn how to optimize it for sales and drive traffic to it from your submitted free sites though.

The free sites which they want are incredibly simple little things consisting of four pages: An index/warning/reciprocal link page, a 'main' page, and two photo or movie galleries. Take the time surf link lists like This Depraved World, Liquisexxx, Floyd's Dirty Porn Links, and PerveSpace. Surf their category pages and analyze what you see listed there.

There's nothing at all wrong with a warning page and the search engines aren't going to penalize you for having one. Most people here use warning pages on their hubs, link lists, etc, as do I, except I tend to warn people that there is adult content ahead by having Flash movies of porn stars scrogging on my warning pages.

Some have extremely minimalistic warning pages, like yours, while others use it as a massive link trading platform.

1 - I'm not sure why you'd deny Russian IPs. China is considered an all-around useless traffic source, so go ahead and deny them, but not Russia. As you've discovered, a few Russians own some very powerful traffic sites and you'll want to have a good relationship with them.

2 - On the topic of revshare versus per sign-up, the most important thing for you is finding a niche that you enjoy and a sponsor (or several) that makes it easy for you to promote them, exempli gratia, easy to find link codes, content, banners, etc. You'll find it far simpler and quicker to promote something that you enjoy and can understand why others would enjoy it as well. Stay way from anal creampie snowballing for awhile - Ponygirl has that covered.

3 - If you don't understand PornAccess, then don't promote them. That was easy!

4 - I've been to a couple of conventions and didn't do any business at them. Some people, such as Ramster and Preacher, are much more business-minded than I, so they have the ability to pursue business contacts, even at a party. I fail in that aspect, as I do in many aspects. I go to hang out with people and tend to forget the whole purpose for the convention.

And in all reality, my business plan is very different from theirs, so I have no great to strike up a conversation with a sponsor rep, unless, of course, she's a cutie.

ned02 · 2008-11-22, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kisa

I guess all that stuff is the marketing person in me who went from being an overpaid, Bay Area ad exec to just another casualty of this grandly fucked up economy.

Just by the way, if your looking to replace the income of an overpaid Bay area exec, don't believe anything you read about incomes in the adult industry, especially if you are a newbie. It will take you years and years to come even close to replacing an executive salary. If you're lucky and put in a good forty hour week, you may make enough to buy a case of the cheapest beer once a month.

If you have a family to support or a mortgage etc.. then do the porn thing on the side, on weekends only, and get out there and find another day job.

The "grandly fucked up economy" as you put it, has absolutely had an effect on the adult biz as well.
Not to mention years of steadily declining sales due to the overwhelming quantity of free stuff out there.

As well you seem to think that porn business people are leaders in the internet marketing field.
Well just for the record, that may have been a long time ago.
Porn marketing has been surpassed and out gunned by mainstream innovation for a good while now.

Also to note, get more opinions! If this forum exists what are the chances there will be others like this out there?
Every board has it's slant and the more hills you look at the better.

The best thing for you to do right now is find a real job and keep porn a hobby.
Surf it deeply, make a few purchases, observe, take notes, build your site and have fun, because unless you have a massive amount of capital to pump into a leaking ship you really are not going to make any kind of serious coin.

Bill · 2008-11-22, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kisa

From the few weeks I've been around, I can honestly say that if some of the people running this industry were out there contributing in more of the mainstream companies, we'd be much better off! I'm serious! I can't tell you how many dumbasses who are supposed 'internet marketing' geniuses, I've worked with! ... Seriously, porn webmasters need to takeover everywhere- my snobby neighbor is an executive at CNET and thinks himself the master of internet marketing. I promise anyone of you could do his job ten times over in your sleep!

Ain't that the fuckin truth.

And we spend our own money doing this, not investment money.

Mainstream is a pit of degenerates and frauds with antique business models, compared to the adult sector.

However, despite all the claims about the money in adult - claims inflated and invented by the media - ultimately the pool of money in mainstream is much much bigger.

The business owners in adult are way more honest tho. Affiliates get treated better.

---

And, the end of the 'long tail' and the centralisation of traffic is a trend affecting adult as much as mainstream. Which is another way of saying the adult game has gotten a hell of a lot trickier than it used to be.

It's not like the old days. Way back at the turn of the millenium.

Kisa · 2008-11-22, 04:05 PM

thanks again for all of this. Yeah, that's the one thing I can't figure out is the money part. I've had a lot of fun figuring out how to build things and working on making things better, etc but that whole 'income' thing hasn't really registered because from day one, I haven't been able to figure out why anyone would buy a pass or join???? I mean sure there's the logical reason of getting the whole package or just making it easier and knowing exactly where to go but with sooooo much content out there, I'm not sure the average consumer would be satisfied with one membership even if it's a megapass???? I don't know. Just can't figure that one out...

As far as money out there in the world goes, I think the money any of us made a few years ago regardless of the industry is more or less gone. I don't think we'll be seeing those gravy days for a long time. When I look back a few years ago at what my husband and I were bringing in, I'm a little shocked. Everyone was overpaid but we became accustomed to it and it's not that we were buying homes we couldn't afford, or livin' large... it's that the home prices had over inflated just as the salaries did. And the cost of living in general had readjusted. So the salaries may have seemed big to the rest of the world, but out here, they were simply average and didn't exactly go a long way. It's a mess. It really is a mess. So no, I don't have delusions on that end of this but it has filled a space of time and kept me distracted. It has been like a giant puzzle and so I've enjoyed it. There REALLY IS a big gap between what women like, want, etc and what men like! This experiment continues to fascinate me.

Russia. Well, I lived and worked in Russia for a long time and I know the laws and I know the criminals. My paternal side of my family is Russian, I speak the language and it's all very close to my heart but I don't want them going anywhere near my site. Porn is illegal in Russia, which is a joke. It's beyond laughable this law. Yeah, porn is illegal but there are no laws against filming or photographing the underage. And I'm guessing Russia rationalized their mass trafficking of this crap as the rest of the world's problem... not theirs. In reality, it's not that hard to track some of these assholes but the Russian government will not cooperate. I used to have so much fun in Moscow but I can tell you that working in Russia is a bit like this

. It's getting so bad over there with the dropping oil prices, Putin's obsession, etc.... But that's a whole other story! Layered Technologies is constantly being called out for their relationships to RBN and other known criminal orgs in Russia but it's likely that Layered is hardly the only company either working directly with or simply supplying a service to an unknown criminal entity. And yeah, China is right there with them and their intent is definitely malicious and much more ominous to our country as a whole. So I guess you could say that my blocking of IPs is more symbolic than anything. It doesn't really add up to anything.... just my own little personal protest.

Oy- well now I'm kind of bummed out

But I'll be over it in a couple of minutes....

Bill · 2008-11-22, 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kisa

I haven't been able to figure out why anyone would buy a pass or join????

Well, it's not a rational decision making process that results in a sale.

We're assisting a biochemical reward process in the surfers brain.

It's pretty much the ultimate in impulse selling.

ned02 · 2008-11-22, 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill

The business owners in adult are way more honest tho. Affiliates get treated better.

Highly debatable.

Bill · 2008-11-22, 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ned02

Highly debatable.

mebbe so. I only make a few hundred a year in mainstream anymore, so perhaps things have changed a lot from the days when I was working on both, and mainstream sponsors were notorious for being difficult to deal with.

mebbe adsense changed all that.

The mainstream vs adult topic has been discussed many hundreds of times over the years, so it's hardly like this is the first time i've heard your argument be made.

but, if you think mainstream sponsors are great, and adult sponsors are untrustworthy, why bother with adult?

Like I don't already know the answer to that rhetorical question.

ned02 · 2008-11-23, 12:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill

if you think mainstream sponsors are great, and adult sponsors are untrustworthy, why bother with adult?

Actually Bill I think all affiliate programs, be it adult or mainstream, cheat their asses off.

I believe there is wide spread fraud on every level and at every turn on the part of affiliates, sponsors and surfers alike.

The biggest part of the problem is the business model on which the sponsor/affiliate relationship is based.

The "trust me I'm gonna pay you" model is hopelessly outdated and anyone participating in it should be very aware that they will in fact get burned at some point.

Kisa · 2008-11-23, 02:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ned02

Actually Bill I think all affiliate programs, be it adult or mainstream, cheat their asses off.

I believe there is wide spread fraud on every level and at every turn on the part of affiliates, sponsors and surfers alike.

The biggest part of the problem is the business model on which the sponsor/affiliate relationship is based.

The "trust me I'm gonna pay you" model is hopelessly outdated and anyone participating in it should be very aware that they will in fact get burned at some point.

well that's another bummer Ned....

anywho- when I got back today, I changed my welcome page... took off all the text you so hated

Added content-- still have the warning page up. Think I'll keep it up for now and no time today to adjust anything else BUT I did do what you suggested and I must admit, it looks much better

thanks

2008-11-22, 10:09 AM	#2
Useless Certified Nice Person Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Dirty Undies, NY Posts: 11,268	First, let's establish what your site is. It is, of course, a free site, but, as stated, it is far from being the type of free site that most link lists will considering listing. But you don't need to change anything about your current site to get in on the free site game. You'll want to learn how to optimize it for sales and drive traffic to it from your submitted free sites though. The free sites which they want are incredibly simple little things consisting of four pages: An index/warning/reciprocal link page, a 'main' page, and two photo or movie galleries. Take the time surf link lists like This Depraved World, Liquisexxx, Floyd's Dirty Porn Links, and PerveSpace. Surf their category pages and analyze what you see listed there. There's nothing at all wrong with a warning page and the search engines aren't going to penalize you for having one. Most people here use warning pages on their hubs, link lists, etc, as do I, except I tend to warn people that there is adult content ahead by having Flash movies of porn stars scrogging on my warning pages. Some have extremely minimalistic warning pages, like yours, while others use it as a massive link trading platform. 1 - I'm not sure why you'd deny Russian IPs. China is considered an all-around useless traffic source, so go ahead and deny them, but not Russia. As you've discovered, a few Russians own some very powerful traffic sites and you'll want to have a good relationship with them. 2 - On the topic of revshare versus per sign-up, the most important thing for you is finding a niche that you enjoy and a sponsor (or several) that makes it easy for you to promote them, exempli gratia, easy to find link codes, content, banners, etc. You'll find it far simpler and quicker to promote something that you enjoy and can understand why others would enjoy it as well. Stay way from anal creampie snowballing for awhile - Ponygirl has that covered. 3 - If you don't understand PornAccess, then don't promote them. That was easy! 4 - I've been to a couple of conventions and didn't do any business at them. Some people, such as Ramster and Preacher, are much more business-minded than I, so they have the ability to pursue business contacts, even at a party. I fail in that aspect, as I do in many aspects. I go to hang out with people and tend to forget the whole purpose for the convention. And in all reality, my business plan is very different from theirs, so I have no great to strike up a conversation with a sponsor rep, unless, of course, she's a cutie. __________________ Click here to purchase a bridge I'm selling. Last edited by Useless; 2008-11-22 at 10:18 AM.. Reason: I could teach English as a fourth language.

2008-11-22, 06:48 AM	#1
Kisa Heh Heh Heh! Lisa! Vampires are make believe, just like elves and gremlins and eskimos! Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: East Bay, California Posts: 77	Thanks for your input Ned. I appreciate it! I guess all that stuff is the marketing person in me who went from being an overpaid, Bay Area ad exec to just another casualty of this grandly fucked up economy. From the few weeks I've been around, I can honestly say that if some of the people running this industry were out there contributing in more of the mainstream companies, we'd be much better off! I'm serious! I can't tell you how many dumbasses who are supposed 'internet marketing' geniuses, I've worked with! If I make even a couple of dollars doing this then it's a bonus because really I became obsessed because of the structure of it all and what I'm learning is invaluable! Seriously, porn webmasters need to takeover everywhere- my snobby neighbor is an executive at CNET and thinks himself the master of internet marketing. I promise anyone of you could do his job ten times over in your sleep! About the warning page, I thought that was required? But I don't mind getting rid of it. So am I screwed already because google has been crawling my site like crazy the past week? NY Jester- thanks so much for your advice too! Yeah, I like what you said about the structure and that's basically what I've been doing without really knowing if that's what I was supposed to be doing. hahaha Yeah I can definitely install wordpress on my domain... I never thought about the 'sending people' away thing. SEE! All those years in the internet/ tech industry and I never thought of that! And NO! That's not why I lost my job! heh Maybe one of you should take over Yahoo.... Okay, this is all great advice. I'll definitely be making the changes. Thanks so much. I can't wait to learn more-

2008-11-22, 04:05 PM	#5
Kisa Heh Heh Heh! Lisa! Vampires are make believe, just like elves and gremlins and eskimos! Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: East Bay, California Posts: 77	thanks again for all of this. Yeah, that's the one thing I can't figure out is the money part. I've had a lot of fun figuring out how to build things and working on making things better, etc but that whole 'income' thing hasn't really registered because from day one, I haven't been able to figure out why anyone would buy a pass or join???? I mean sure there's the logical reason of getting the whole package or just making it easier and knowing exactly where to go but with sooooo much content out there, I'm not sure the average consumer would be satisfied with one membership even if it's a megapass???? I don't know. Just can't figure that one out... As far as money out there in the world goes, I think the money any of us made a few years ago regardless of the industry is more or less gone. I don't think we'll be seeing those gravy days for a long time. When I look back a few years ago at what my husband and I were bringing in, I'm a little shocked. Everyone was overpaid but we became accustomed to it and it's not that we were buying homes we couldn't afford, or livin' large... it's that the home prices had over inflated just as the salaries did. And the cost of living in general had readjusted. So the salaries may have seemed big to the rest of the world, but out here, they were simply average and didn't exactly go a long way. It's a mess. It really is a mess. So no, I don't have delusions on that end of this but it has filled a space of time and kept me distracted. It has been like a giant puzzle and so I've enjoyed it. There REALLY IS a big gap between what women like, want, etc and what men like! This experiment continues to fascinate me. Russia. Well, I lived and worked in Russia for a long time and I know the laws and I know the criminals. My paternal side of my family is Russian, I speak the language and it's all very close to my heart but I don't want them going anywhere near my site. Porn is illegal in Russia, which is a joke. It's beyond laughable this law. Yeah, porn is illegal but there are no laws against filming or photographing the underage. And I'm guessing Russia rationalized their mass trafficking of this crap as the rest of the world's problem... not theirs. In reality, it's not that hard to track some of these assholes but the Russian government will not cooperate. I used to have so much fun in Moscow but I can tell you that working in Russia is a bit like this . It's getting so bad over there with the dropping oil prices, Putin's obsession, etc.... But that's a whole other story! Layered Technologies is constantly being called out for their relationships to RBN and other known criminal orgs in Russia but it's likely that Layered is hardly the only company either working directly with or simply supplying a service to an unknown criminal entity. And yeah, China is right there with them and their intent is definitely malicious and much more ominous to our country as a whole. So I guess you could say that my blocking of IPs is more symbolic than anything. It doesn't really add up to anything.... just my own little personal protest. Oy- well now I'm kind of bummed out But I'll be over it in a couple of minutes....