This is crap, I'm buying spots! - Page 2

Dr Bizzaro · 2004-07-01, 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ramster But I already told you and everyone on this board that DrBizzaro, Jamies-Galleries, CarlasChoice, GorillaLinks, YoungerBabes and a few others have monthly accounts that are worth the money. [/b]

Great thread.
IMO Cheaters are about 90% to blame for the way things have gone in the past 2 years.

It's too bad really.

Van Helsing · 2004-07-02, 05:44 AM

Since I am the one who started this thread, i hope you guys don't put me in the same shoes with cheaters when you guys talk about cheaters.

I totally agree that cheaters are problem for people who earns money from this business. I can also see the reason why you guys don't like hobbists because they probably don't pay much attention to the rules and waste your time when they submit galleries.

Now let me tell you something, i am 23 years old and i started doing this before many of you. The only board outthere were YNOT and then ******* opened. There were only couple people in my country who had modem. Of course it was a hobby for me and still is. I don't know how many years has it been, but i guess its pretty obvious that i was too young to see the potential of adult biz and i believed that my education was more important, so i stopped doing it.(A lot of webmasters today who survived today were getting into trouble at that time due to lack of laws at that time)

Please don't blame someone you don't know anything about him/her. I came here to learn things from the beginning. Rules obviously changed a lot and i am back again as a newbie.

To be perfectly honest with you guys, i can't look at BDSM stuff or gay stuff. I don't like to build galleries which are not attracting me at all. I am pretty sure they bring more money than teens or amateurs, but this is not what i look for when i surf on the net.
It's my hobby and always was to look at softcore pictures of beautiful women. Playboy girls, centerfolds, just beautiful women. When i build sites i enjoy doing it. Of course its my hobby and i am happy the way it is. The big guys you know in the biz, ask them and they will tell you that they started this as a hobby. (At least thats what they were saying to us at ******* :-) )

I would like to thank here to Richard's Realm. I don't know if he comes here or not, but this guy is the guy to be respected. Every gallery that i posted to his TGP got accepted or declined with a reason. That's what i call honest webmaster. When you email him, he emails you back. That's a man who does a honest job and that's what i believe all the webmasters must follow who is making money as a full time worker.

Now at the beginning of this thread, Ramster gave me an example of local newspapers. He said that if i don't pay, i won't get an ad. Absolutely true. Now here is my example:

You are going to McDonalds and you are ordering a big mac. The guy who works there, does not say anything???? You ask for a big mac, but no response. He says: "Next...."
He ignores you may be because you are not well dressed ??? Maybe you have an accent???? Maybe you don't look like an American??? why ??? Oh i got it, because he does not know you!!!!
Another perspective........A bodyguard in front of a club must accept you if you are following the dress code right? Now comes the point....What if the club is full??? Like the TGPs who can't let more submissions.
Well, then do like Richards, and tell them that they can't allow more submissions at this hour OR at least don't make the webmaster wonder if it is his dress that does not fit for the club, if the club is full, if the bodyguards must know him first, and the list goes on and on...

Thank you to everyone who shared their thoughts with us.

P.S: My cousin and i carry the same passport. Every time we enter the U.S, the immigration guys search me from bottom to the top, but never my cousin. I have absouletely no solid reason why they don't search him. Do you know what goes thru my mind that seperates me from him?? Its actually not the passport they care about, its your skin color!!! (I am not black by the way, and i am NOT talking about black/white thing here)

Greenguy · 2004-07-02, 07:28 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Van Helsing
...Now let me tell you something, i am 23 years old and i started doing this before many of you. The only board outthere were YNOT and then ******* opened. ...

Don't take this the wrong way, but I think you just admitted to doing this before you were 18

Van Helsing · 2004-07-02, 01:27 PM

Yes true. I also said that there were problems by that time with the laws too. Especially in my country. That's why a lot of sponsors does not allow webmasters from my country. Are they doing something wrong? No. Sponsors are right.

But Greenguy the important point is i learned from my mistakes and i told myself i was doing wrong, so i stopped doing it for a long time. Therefore i am here once again as a newbie.
:-)

Tommy · 2004-07-10, 08:09 PM

it was bad when there were consoles and the dialers were even worse but the toolbars and spyware

if a surfer gets a toolbar installed or some spyware off a link we gave them, they aint coming back. the cheaters are directly threatening our lively hood

I love having free open public submits, but its like shoveling shit against the waves

I wanna list everybody and I hope everyone make a lot of sales from my traffic, but most of all I wanna keep my list clean and I will go to any length to make sure it stays clean

Tommy · 2004-07-10, 08:11 PM

ohh btw

355 Accepted submissions in the last 24 hours (1719 rejected submissions)

Cleo · 2004-07-10, 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tommy
it was bad when there were consoles and the dialers were even worse but the toolbars and spyware

if a surfer gets a toolbar installed or some spyware off a link we gave them, they aint coming back. the cheaters are directly threatening our lively hood

I love having free open public submits, but its like shoveling shit against the waves

I wanna list everybody and I hope everyone make a lot of sales from my traffic, but most of all I wanna keep my list clean and I will go to any length to make sure it stays clean

Ditto, very well said.

tootie · 2004-07-26, 01:37 PM

VH, I don't think anyone here is automatically labeling you a cheater. I wouldn't worry about that.

I've been in this business for almost 8 years now. When I started out, I had no car, no money, and 2 kids to support. I couldn't get a job because I lived in the middle of nowhere and couldn't get to work with no car. Taxis and daycare would have cost me more than I could make.

My dad had loaned me a PC and I ran across a Cybererotica banner. I clicked it, saw a "make money" link at the bottom of the site, and signed up.

I had no money to buy hosting or content. I used Cybererotica's free content and built a few sites and used Geocities to host and I ran several IRC chatrooms to get traffic. I had no choice. I had kids to feed.

Soon, Porncity opened their free host. That was great. I used Cybererotica's free content and Porncity's free hosting and I built more sites. There weren't many places to get traffic back then. Persian Kitty was the main source. But she wouldn't list me because I was on a free host. That really hurt because I needed the money soooo badly. But it was her site, and her rules.

Soon I found someone willing to give me free bannerless hosting because of the situation I was in and PK listed me. (YAY!) I started making some money, but not very much because I was still using free content and PK wouldn't only list two of my sites at any one time. I got a little traffic from SE's, too, but not alot.

I've trudged along all these years, struggling and having problems, but working hard because I had to. Last year I was making very good money with a certain sponsor and for the first time, my life was not so bad. My hard work was paying off. Then the sponsor I was working with discontinued the program I was using and my income dropped sharply. Luckily I had a few other small sources of income, but it hurt and it hurt BADLY. I've had my utilities disconnected multiple times (one today, in fact) lately and I've almost been evicted a couple of times. It's REALLY bad for me right now. I literally don't even have any money for groceries and I have small children and an infant with seizures that requires medication. I'm glad I had some beans and rice and such bought up for emergencies. LOL

I tried submitting galleries, but I got declined for partner accounts at alot of places because it's been a couple of years since I've submitted and they don't know me anymore. I would try link lists, but I don't have time now because I'm doing design work for other people for more certain income and I don't have any spare time at all. In fact, I'm so far behind that I only got about 3-4 hours of sleep last night.

I've been doing graphics work for other people lately, and I was starting to get caught up on my bills, but because of a couple of very difficult clients that demanded a huge number of revisions I've gotten so far behind on my work that I can't take any new work until I get caught up and I need the money from new clients desperately. I don't know what I'm going to do, but I do know that typing this message has been the longest single break from work I've had aside from sleep in about 2 weeks. Sad, huh?

Anyway, I don't begrudge hobbyists their income, but honestly, hobbyists are taking money away from those of us who really need it because it's all we have. I mean, hobbyists have just as much right to do what they want to as anyone else, and of course it would be unfair to try to tell anyone they shouldn't be here just because they "don't need" the money because who am I to say what someone else needs? But that doesn't mean it doesn't hurt me or make me annoyed that there is less money for those of us who are trying to make a living.

And of course, the cheaters are the biggest problem. I don't think hobbyists would even be a real issue if the cheaters didn't make it so difficult for honest professionals and hobbyists to get listed. Cheaters are the biggest reason why I'm working 12-16 hours a day 7 days a week and I'm not even able to keep up with my bills.

Welcome to the industry. It's not an easy one to be in anymore.

caringneo · 2004-08-07, 11:39 AM

tootie,
That's really a long post which touchy. I agree 100% with you. I have been in this only for a year now. But as you said this biz is becoming tougher for honest webmasters who are in the lower level. The guys who already have name rules and the cheaters breaks. Ultimately we suffer. I don't have as much bad situation like you because I got another job to support my mom and sis. But some day I hope to drop that make this full time. But its getting tough day by day. More rules and rules. As they go on creating rules , cheaters find ways to break it and they make new rules.
But I must admit that some of the linklist owners and TGP owners are still friendly with newbies and that makes it possible for me to stay here with some motivation. Thanks guys.

Neo

STEVEN · 2004-08-10, 01:36 PM

One problem with giving newbies a chance - they tend to burn you.

Not ALL of them, and I'm saying anyone in this thread will - but I really don't like giving anyone breaks anymore. Too often, I am reviewing galleries that are 3-5 days old in the review queue, and the gallery is 404, a blank Apache page (if I'm lucky), or a cPanel message saying "No Site Configured At This Address", etc etc

We all have gone thru growing pains, we all have had hosting issues - but I cant afford that. Some newbies dead virtual account cant be my 4th link on a page, because it will cost me tens of thousands of hits that day.

So for anyone new starting out, and getting frustrated by running into so many closed doors - get over it. Nobody owes you anything. This is NOT a hobby to me, it's how I pay my bills and feed my family. It may sound harsh, but I depend on professional gallery builders. If you dont have your act together, dont come a knocking.

Learn the biz, learn how to code a page, optimize graphics, get a good, affordable, stable host. Learn how to write good sales text. Learn how to sell your sponsor/niche.

TGP should not be the first thing a newbie jumps into. Not by a longshot. Start off with building SE pages, AVS sites, freesites. If you learn these well enough, you might not even bother with TGP work. It's harder traffic to convert, and you get hit with a lot more of it - so the BW bill goes up.

2004-07-02, 05:44 AM	#27
Van Helsing WHO IS FONZY!?! Don't they teach you anything at school? Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 49	Since I am the one who started this thread, i hope you guys don't put me in the same shoes with cheaters when you guys talk about cheaters. I totally agree that cheaters are problem for people who earns money from this business. I can also see the reason why you guys don't like hobbists because they probably don't pay much attention to the rules and waste your time when they submit galleries. Now let me tell you something, i am 23 years old and i started doing this before many of you. The only board outthere were YNOT and then ***** opened. There were only couple people in my country who had modem. Of course it was a hobby for me and still is. I don't know how many years has it been, but i guess its pretty obvious that i was too young to see the potential of adult biz and i believed that my education was more important, so i stopped doing it.(A lot of webmasters today who survived today were getting into trouble at that time due to lack of laws at that time) Please don't blame someone you don't know anything about him/her. I came here to learn things from the beginning. Rules obviously changed a lot and i am back again as a newbie. To be perfectly honest with you guys, i can't look at BDSM stuff or gay stuff. I don't like to build galleries which are not attracting me at all. I am pretty sure they bring more money than teens or amateurs, but this is not what i look for when i surf on the net. It's my hobby and always was to look at softcore pictures of beautiful women. Playboy girls, centerfolds, just beautiful women. When i build sites i enjoy doing it. Of course its my hobby and i am happy the way it is. The big guys you know in the biz, ask them and they will tell you that they started this as a hobby. (At least thats what they were saying to us at ***** :-) ) I would like to thank here to Richard's Realm. I don't know if he comes here or not, but this guy is the guy to be respected. Every gallery that i posted to his TGP got accepted or declined with a reason. That's what i call honest webmaster. When you email him, he emails you back. That's a man who does a honest job and that's what i believe all the webmasters must follow who is making money as a full time worker. Now at the beginning of this thread, Ramster gave me an example of local newspapers. He said that if i don't pay, i won't get an ad. Absolutely true. Now here is my example: You are going to McDonalds and you are ordering a big mac. The guy who works there, does not say anything???? You ask for a big mac, but no response. He says: "Next...." He ignores you may be because you are not well dressed ??? Maybe you have an accent???? Maybe you don't look like an American??? why ??? Oh i got it, because he does not know you!!!! Another perspective........A bodyguard in front of a club must accept you if you are following the dress code right? Now comes the point....What if the club is full??? Like the TGPs who can't let more submissions. Well, then do like Richards, and tell them that they can't allow more submissions at this hour OR at least don't make the webmaster wonder if it is his dress that does not fit for the club, if the club is full, if the bodyguards must know him first, and the list goes on and on... Thank you to everyone who shared their thoughts with us. P.S: My cousin and i carry the same passport. Every time we enter the U.S, the immigration guys search me from bottom to the top, but never my cousin. I have absouletely no solid reason why they don't search him. Do you know what goes thru my mind that seperates me from him?? Its actually not the passport they care about, its your skin color!!! (I am not black by the way, and i am NOT talking about black/white thing here) Last edited by Van Helsing; 2004-07-02 at 05:48 AM..

2004-07-26, 01:37 PM	#33
tootie Rock stars ... is there anything they don't know? Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 17	VH, I don't think anyone here is automatically labeling you a cheater. I wouldn't worry about that. I've been in this business for almost 8 years now. When I started out, I had no car, no money, and 2 kids to support. I couldn't get a job because I lived in the middle of nowhere and couldn't get to work with no car. Taxis and daycare would have cost me more than I could make. My dad had loaned me a PC and I ran across a Cybererotica banner. I clicked it, saw a "make money" link at the bottom of the site, and signed up. I had no money to buy hosting or content. I used Cybererotica's free content and built a few sites and used Geocities to host and I ran several IRC chatrooms to get traffic. I had no choice. I had kids to feed. Soon, Porncity opened their free host. That was great. I used Cybererotica's free content and Porncity's free hosting and I built more sites. There weren't many places to get traffic back then. Persian Kitty was the main source. But she wouldn't list me because I was on a free host. That really hurt because I needed the money soooo badly. But it was her site, and her rules. Soon I found someone willing to give me free bannerless hosting because of the situation I was in and PK listed me. (YAY!) I started making some money, but not very much because I was still using free content and PK wouldn't only list two of my sites at any one time. I got a little traffic from SE's, too, but not alot. I've trudged along all these years, struggling and having problems, but working hard because I had to. Last year I was making very good money with a certain sponsor and for the first time, my life was not so bad. My hard work was paying off. Then the sponsor I was working with discontinued the program I was using and my income dropped sharply. Luckily I had a few other small sources of income, but it hurt and it hurt BADLY. I've had my utilities disconnected multiple times (one today, in fact) lately and I've almost been evicted a couple of times. It's REALLY bad for me right now. I literally don't even have any money for groceries and I have small children and an infant with seizures that requires medication. I'm glad I had some beans and rice and such bought up for emergencies. LOL I tried submitting galleries, but I got declined for partner accounts at alot of places because it's been a couple of years since I've submitted and they don't know me anymore. I would try link lists, but I don't have time now because I'm doing design work for other people for more certain income and I don't have any spare time at all. In fact, I'm so far behind that I only got about 3-4 hours of sleep last night. I've been doing graphics work for other people lately, and I was starting to get caught up on my bills, but because of a couple of very difficult clients that demanded a huge number of revisions I've gotten so far behind on my work that I can't take any new work until I get caught up and I need the money from new clients desperately. I don't know what I'm going to do, but I do know that typing this message has been the longest single break from work I've had aside from sleep in about 2 weeks. Sad, huh? Anyway, I don't begrudge hobbyists their income, but honestly, hobbyists are taking money away from those of us who really need it because it's all we have. I mean, hobbyists have just as much right to do what they want to as anyone else, and of course it would be unfair to try to tell anyone they shouldn't be here just because they "don't need" the money because who am I to say what someone else needs? But that doesn't mean it doesn't hurt me or make me annoyed that there is less money for those of us who are trying to make a living. And of course, the cheaters are the biggest problem. I don't think hobbyists would even be a real issue if the cheaters didn't make it so difficult for honest professionals and hobbyists to get listed. Cheaters are the biggest reason why I'm working 12-16 hours a day 7 days a week and I'm not even able to keep up with my bills. Welcome to the industry. It's not an easy one to be in anymore. __________________ <a href="http://www.cherrychecks.com"><img src="http://www.bannerbabe.com/cc-120x60-01.gif"></a>

2004-08-07, 11:39 AM	#34
caringneo Oh! I haven't changed since high school and suddenly I am uncool Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: PLANET EARTH Posts: 259	tootie, That's really a long post which touchy. I agree 100% with you. I have been in this only for a year now. But as you said this biz is becoming tougher for honest webmasters who are in the lower level. The guys who already have name rules and the cheaters breaks. Ultimately we suffer. I don't have as much bad situation like you because I got another job to support my mom and sis. But some day I hope to drop that make this full time. But its getting tough day by day. More rules and rules. As they go on creating rules , cheaters find ways to break it and they make new rules. But I must admit that some of the linklist owners and TGP owners are still friendly with newbies and that makes it possible for me to stay here with some motivation. Thanks guys. Neo __________________ Anal Gays

2004-07-02, 01:27 PM	#29
Van Helsing WHO IS FONZY!?! Don't they teach you anything at school? Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 49	Yes true. I also said that there were problems by that time with the laws too. Especially in my country. That's why a lot of sponsors does not allow webmasters from my country. Are they doing something wrong? No. Sponsors are right. But Greenguy the important point is i learned from my mistakes and i told myself i was doing wrong, so i stopped doing it for a long time. Therefore i am here once again as a newbie. :-)

2004-07-10, 08:09 PM	#30
Tommy NYC Boy That Moved To The Island Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 2,940	it was bad when there were consoles and the dialers were even worse but the toolbars and spyware if a surfer gets a toolbar installed or some spyware off a link we gave them, they aint coming back. the cheaters are directly threatening our lively hood I love having free open public submits, but its like shoveling shit against the waves I wanna list everybody and I hope everyone make a lot of sales from my traffic, but most of all I wanna keep my list clean and I will go to any length to make sure it stays clean

2004-07-10, 08:11 PM	#31
Tommy NYC Boy That Moved To The Island Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 2,940	ohh btw 355 Accepted submissions in the last 24 hours (1719 rejected submissions)

2004-08-10, 01:36 PM	#35
STEVEN WHO IS FONZY!?! Don't they teach you anything at school? Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 45	One problem with giving newbies a chance - they tend to burn you. Not ALL of them, and I'm saying anyone in this thread will - but I really don't like giving anyone breaks anymore. Too often, I am reviewing galleries that are 3-5 days old in the review queue, and the gallery is 404, a blank Apache page (if I'm lucky), or a cPanel message saying "No Site Configured At This Address", etc etc We all have gone thru growing pains, we all have had hosting issues - but I cant afford that. Some newbies dead virtual account cant be my 4th link on a page, because it will cost me tens of thousands of hits that day. So for anyone new starting out, and getting frustrated by running into so many closed doors - get over it. Nobody owes you anything. This is NOT a hobby to me, it's how I pay my bills and feed my family. It may sound harsh, but I depend on professional gallery builders. If you dont have your act together, dont come a knocking. Learn the biz, learn how to code a page, optimize graphics, get a good, affordable, stable host. Learn how to write good sales text. Learn how to sell your sponsor/niche. TGP should not be the first thing a newbie jumps into. Not by a longshot. Start off with building SE pages, AVS sites, freesites. If you learn these well enough, you might not even bother with TGP work. It's harder traffic to convert, and you get hit with a lot more of it - so the BW bill goes up.