I just "broke" the penisbot captcha... Further to the Captcha discussion...

[Viper]

...in this thread...
http://www.greenguysboard.com/board/...ad.php?t=45164

I'm not trying to be a prick or anything, just trying to educate when it comes to trying to stop the cheaters/auto submitters, which, IMO, can't really be done via the submit form without driving away real quality submitters.

I'm by no means "brilliant" and I don't have any OCR type code.. but a light bulb went off in my head today and I sat down and spent maybe an hour and a half to "prove" my theory... And it works... So far 100% accurate... If anyone is interested I can put a page up that shows it broken... using the techinque I came up with can break a lot of the captcha used on the link lists I've seen including richards-realm, hoes, obviously wetplace, freesitexxx, sexties, smutlinks etc.

[Lemmy]

Originally Posted by Viper

...in this thread...
http://www.greenguysboard.com/board/...ad.php?t=45164I'm not trying to be a prick or anything, just trying to educate when it comes to trying to stop the cheaters/auto submitters, which, IMO, can't really be done via the submit form without driving away real quality submitters.

A quality submitter wouldn't be driven away by a captcha form.

I think the whole issue is blown way out of proportion. You can spend hours on end whining about it and trying to break people's forms just to prove a point, or just type in the damn code (5 seconds) and be done with it. IMHO.

[Viper]

Originally Posted by Lemmy

A quality submitter wouldn't be driven away by a captcha form.

I think you're biased by this forum... Do you submit freesites to say 50 LLs a day? If you did you'd soon realize that it's not cost effective to do it by hand... I'm shocked by the low amount of traffic that gets sent to the free sites...

But then again, if you're only doing this as a hobbby as opposed to running it like a business, then I guess it wouldn't matter.

I always find it interesting how the LL owners tell the subimtters to stop whining... Why not just close down your form and build all your own free sites if you hold the submitters in such disdain.

[Lemmy]

Originally Posted by Viper

I think you're biased by this forum... Do you submit freesites to say 50 LLs a day? If you did you'd soon realize that it's not cost effective to do it by hand... I'm shocked by the low amount of traffic that gets sent to the free sites...

But then again, if you're only doing this as a hobbby as opposed to running it like a business, then I guess it wouldn't matter.

I always find it interesting how the LL owners tell the subimtters to stop whining... Why not just close down your form and build all your own free sites if you hold the submitters in such disdain.

I'm probably one of the more prolific freesite submitters on this board with about 800 sites under my belt and my submit list has at times included as many as 144 LLs.

Where did you come up with the idea that I hold submitters in disdain? I hold crybabies in disdain.

[Toby]

|duff|

[Viper]

Originally Posted by Lemmy

I'm probably one of the more prolific freesite submitters on this board with about 800 sites under my belt and my submit list has at times included as many as 144 LLs.

Where did you come up with the idea that I hold submitters in disdain? I hold crybabies in disdain.

You hold them in disdain because you're automatic response is to label them as crybabes and whiners... Aren't you the one who just got thru a personal pity party and reopened your sites? Perhaps instead of spending all that time submitting sites by hand you should have been spending time accepting submissions and reviewing them to build up PR and real traffic to your site.. lets see.. right now one of your sites has sent me a total of 3 hits compared to an open submission site like greenguys that's sent the same free site 209 in the same period... This is a business and everything you do needs to be analized from a ROI standpoint.

I'm trying to have a serious discussion about the issue of auto-submitters and cheaters and how to combat them and all you guys can do is talk about crybabies and whiners. But if you want to sling shit go right ahead.. I'm in a piss poor mood anyway so should fit right in here...

[Lemmy]

Originally Posted by Viper

You hold them in disdain because you're automatic response is to label them as crybabes and whiners... Aren't you the one who just got thru a personal pity party and reopened your sites? Perhaps instead of spending all that time submitting sites by hand you should have been spending time accepting submissions and reviewing them to build up PR and real traffic to your site.. lets see.. right now one of your sites has sent me a total of 3 hits compared to an open submission site like greenguys that's sent the same free site 209 in the same period... This is a business and everything you do needs to be analized from a ROI standpoint.

I'm trying to have a serious discussion about the issue of auto-submitters and cheaters and how to combat them and all you guys can do is talk about crybabies and whiners. But if you want to sling shit go right ahead.. I'm in a piss poor mood anyway so should fit right in here...

I fail to see what my personal pity party has to do with anything. I didn't label submitters in general as whiners and crybabies. That was directed specifically at you.

So Greenie sends you about 70 times the traffic as I do, big deal, it means I'm doing better than I thought.

[SheepGuy]

Originally Posted by Viper

I think you're biased by this forum... Do you submit freesites to say 50 LLs a day? If you did you'd soon realize that it's not cost effective to do it by hand... I'm shocked by the low amount of traffic that gets sent to the free sites...

But then again, if you're only doing this as a hobbby as opposed to running it like a business, then I guess it wouldn't matter.

I always find it interesting how the LL owners tell the subimtters to stop whining... Why not just close down your form and build all your own free sites if you hold the submitters in such disdain.

Ya know, I don't really give a shit if I attract the "quality submitters" who submit to 50 LL's a day, If I miss a FS that every other LL has that's cool with me.
I'd rather have what I've got, people who put together interesting sites, sometimes only 1 or 2 a week, who take the time to go through my pain in the ass submission system, which involves an email fer fucks sake
Something the auto-submitters have yet to figure out.
And I've been full time for over 10 years, so this ain't no hobby.

[horney]

SheepGuy, IMHO you have the easiest, most user friendly system I know out of all the lists bar two. Neither is better, just the same - one uses the same method and the other PMs.

I started the thread in question. I repeat, the only time I get pissed off with the precautions are when I can't read the fucking things or I make a typo and correcting it takes ten minutes instead of a couple of keystrokes. Other than that, I understand the reasons and I'm quite happy to live with the ones that are constructed sensibly.

[Viper]

Originally Posted by SheepGuy

Ya know, I don't really give a shit if I attract the "quality submitters" who submit to 50 LL's a day, If I miss a FS that every other LL has that's cool with me.
I'd rather have what I've got, people who put together interesting sites, sometimes only 1 or 2 a week, who take the time to go through my pain in the ass submission system, which involves an email fer fucks sake
Something the auto-submitters have yet to figure out.
And I've been full time for over 10 years, so this ain't no hobby.

Good for you, glad that's working out for you... Hate to burst your bubble, but sending email submissions is freakin easy... Perhaps there's another reason you don't get them... Your site has an Alexa ranking of 256,952.. Penisbot is at 4,182.. Based on my DB that puts you at about #71... Given my stats that show that a ranking in the range of 50k-60k could yield 20k-30k a day in visitors, I'd say that not having open submissions hasn't helped all that much with making your site a huge success..

I've only been doing adult full time for 6 years full time and at one point (before my downfall due to a woman), had the #1 big boobs site on the net (alhough shap and I would "disagree" about that sometimes)... I started out as a submitter and as such I treat the honest ones with respect because I remember how hard it was back then to build up the revenue and traffic. I actually go out of my way to try and make things "easy" for the honest ones... I value my "partners" in this business.

[horney]

Whooaa hang on there Viper. I agree that most of the measures being taken are misguided, but you're not talking to a roomful of geeks.

What you're saying is like saying M$ is a marketing company, not a software company. All the geeks will agree, but the non-geeks have got the marketing message. It's way, way too late.

The fact is, since I posted that thread, all of the list owners who were making it hardest made a real effort to ease off, which perhaps suggests it's not all quite as introspective as you are telling yourself.

Besides which, SheepGuy is sending me a reasonable amount of traffic. No, not the top level but at the top of the next tier, so he can't be doing it all wrong.

[LeRoy]

Why do people complain about freeeeeee traffic?

[SheepGuy]

Don't see how I attacked you either, I'm so confused, I'm like, Useless
But man, bringing up those Alexa stats really hurts
What exactly is it that you do for a living?
And more importantly, can you get me some shrooms? I really like the panthera, the greenish ones you make tea with.

[Licker4U]

Originally Posted by Viper

...Do you submit freesites to say 50 LLs a day? If you did you'd soon realize that it's not cost effective to do it by hand...

Cost effective? Sure it is. I've cut way back but for over a year I hand submitted to around 90 link lists. It took about an hour and a half. I can build a site in 3 hours and with the manual submission I was through in 5 hours. Cost effective? Sure, especially with the good will developed with quite a few link lists.

Now, are you trying to educate link list owners that there is a flaw in their captchas or educate submitters on how to defeat the captchas?

[Viper]

Originally Posted by Licker4U

Cost effective? Sure it is. I've cut way back but for over a year I hand submitted to around 90 link lists. It took about an hour and a half. I can build a site in 3 hours and with the manual submission I was through in 5 hours. Cost effective? Sure, especially with the good will developed with quite a few link lists.

Now, are you trying to educate link list owners that there is a flaw in their captchas or educate submitters on how to defeat the captchas?

Is it cost effective? So how much do you actually make for those 5 hours? If you're not making at least $50 an hour then I'm sorry to say it's simply not... I've seen some very long time submitters post saying the same thing you have.. Doing a site a day and hand submitting.. They've publicly stated that their income from that is $1500 - $2000 a month, MAYBE $3000.. That's not cost effective, that's hobby money.

Did I say how to defeat the catpcha? No... Seems pretty clear to me...

[Lemmy]

Originally Posted by Viper

Go back and read what I've actually been attempting to communicate... Nowhere have I preached the benifits of auto-submitting...

Originally Posted by Viper

I think you're biased by this forum... Do you submit freesites to say 50 LLs a day? If you did you'd soon realize that it's not cost effective to do it by hand...

I don't know how else to interpret this.

[Viper]

Originally Posted by Lemmy

I don't know how else to interpret this.

That's hillarious.. you take those 9 words and ignore everything else I've said including a bunch of solutions to cheaters etc. I put in that other thread.. Way to go!!!!!

Yep.. at this point, it's simply not cost effective to submit to the majority of the LLs out there by hand... In fact, I was going to make some posts about how some of you smaller LL owners could adapt and get more traffic into your sites to actually make it cost effective which would benifit everyone.. But given the repsonses to date it's clearly not going to be worth it...

It's a shame really... On a couple other boards people love it when I post this type of information, advice, write some script for them to use or write an "article" about some WM topic etc. This board just has a really weird attitude about things. You just can't rock the status quo.

[Lemmy]

Originally Posted by Viper

That's hillarious.. you take those 9 words and ignore everything else I've said including a bunch of solutions to cheaters etc. I put in that other thread.. Way to go!!!!!

No, not ignoring, but putting into context. You're bitching about some simple, non-intrusive security measures, bragging about breaking PB's captcha AND saying that handsubmission is waste of time.

[T Pat]

Originally Posted by Viper

I'm by no means "brilliant"

I agree
Your hacking could possible make the captcha problem worse and probable get you black listed

[Viper]

Originally Posted by T Pat

I agree
Your hacking could possible make the captcha problem worse and probable get you black listed

Thanks for taking the time to pull your head out of your hole in the sand and add something of value to the discussion...

[secretagentwilly]

I'd say the bottom line is the linklist owner's rules are THEIR rules...it's their linklist and it's the empire they made, some big and some not soo big. Don't submit to the not so big ones if you don't want to waste your time. I would think you're going to get blacklisted by promoting circumventing rules...then you'll have to change your forum name and start over...Maybe you should start a thread asking people how they make better use of their time and do their submissions? I agree with Toby...except I'd prefer whoppers over popcorn

[secretagentwilly]

I should probably stay out of this, but against my better judgment I just want to say that each forum is going to have it's core group of contributors and that's more than likely because they've networked with each other and have a similar ideology and code of conduct and have stayed in the biz over time when the majority of webmasters drop like flies ...I could totally see what you're saying about other boards wanting hacks and shortcuts...I belong to those forums too and I go to those forums when I'm looking for that information...this isn't that forum...GG&J is a peer evaluated/governed community that play by the same rules. If you're not down with the LL rules, you're probably not going to last...there's not really short cuts to be had in this community from what I've seen and I like that...people don't give out software codes/serials and they don't see what scams they can conjure to convert the surfers for the short term...it's about building quality content for the long term...and a good quality freesite might hang around for a while and get you those conversions two+ years down the road...that's residual income you don't get when you scam...that's just my two cents...best of luck to you...

[hashbury]

Dammit theres way to many quotes going on in here.

[Simon]

Originally Posted by hashbury

Dammit theres way to many quotes going on in here.

Yep, I agree. Although I may mean it in a different way than you do. Back to that in a minute.

First though, I want to say that I'm wide awake and bored on a Saturday morning and might not have posted in this thread at all if I had something else that needed doing right now.

But I don't.

So I want to say "Hello" to Viper and "thanks" for starting this thread which, in three pages, has mutated into something much different than I think he intended.

Okay, let me get back to the quotes thing before I forget. I quoted Hashbury above because I suffer from an affliction that I know also plagues Useless Warrior. It's the pain caused by seeing something put between quotation marks for no good reason. Or maybe just for an unclear reason. I'm not a Grammar Nazi, and I'm really bringing this up with good intentions.

So far, and I might have missed some, there have been at least 15 words quoted by Viper for reasons which create more questions than answers. What I mean are words like these, all of which were set off inside quotation marks like this when they were used: "simple," "sign up," "rating," "prove," "broke," "brilliant," "disagree," "easy," "partners," "hopefull," "attack," "names," "real," "help," and "tone."

(I'm not including "sales," "bragging," "whiner" or "crybaby" in that list since those words were actually used by someone else before Viper quoted them.)

Here's the point I want to make. For many people, when they see a word in quotations and it's not because it's something that someone else said which is being quoted by the other writer, they'll often assume that what the writer is doing is intentionally adding emphasis instead (although it's the wrong method to do so). And often the assumption is also made that the writer is using those misplaced quotes to signal irony or sarcasm, or to sneer at the reader in some way.

To boil it down a bit, using quotation marks around single words which are not words that someone else said and which are now being quoted, is often picked up by the readers mind as if the writer is speaking out loud and using the gesture that some call "air quotes" to indicate that the word they're using may be the opposite of what they really mean.

Further boiling: I've seen this simple misuse of quotation marks help provoke flame wars of great magnitude. So it's possible that this may be contributing a bit to what's happening here. Maybe more than a bit.

Bottom line: I'd love to see a good discussion of some of the points raised here, but I'm not sure we haven't already stirred up too much muck for that to happen in this thread.

Time for more


.

[LD]

I like Abba, too.