Trial Options and Pricing

[papagmp]

Originally Posted by Pagan

<insert dripping sarcasm>Oh, wow! I feel.. so totally enlightened now. I never knew that Europe was made of unique countries.</end dripping sarcasm - tag inserted for those who need it> There are policies the lump all of the European countries into one basket - EU and non-EU - and some of those same policies go so far as to lump everything outside of the US and Canada together. Fair? Not really. Because of the relative rarity and higher cost of exchanging currencies, US credit card processors may back off of the $1 charge because it costs them more to charge a non-North American bank a US dollar.

IF the country involved uses Euros, it might be easier and therefore more cost effective, but we do know that not all of Europe uses that currency. Your "English-speaking countries" are actually parts of the United Kingdom, which is ONE government and which will have one set of laws. The Republic of Ireland is not included in the UK. (And UK folks, please do correct me if I am wrong!) I do believe the porn laws are not as liberal as in some other areas, like Scandinavia and The Netherlands. How many nude beaches do you guys have in the UK?

Pagan dear,

No one put it better than Ron White

[ecchi]

Originally Posted by papagmp

I lived in Europe for almost half my life and there are thousands of treaties, policies and laws that lump Europe into one basket. Just like there are thousands that lump The Americas into one basket. Pull your head out of your ass and smell the flowers dipshit.

Where in Europe did you live? Was it a small dark cellar with no contact with the outside world except a TV that only showed a right wing propaganda channel? There is a lot of anti-EU feeling across most (probably all) member countries, and the more right wing of these (e.g. the "England for the English - keep the foreign johnnies out" brigade) put out a lot of false propaganda, for example "Europe is going to ban the traditional British sausage", but basically these are lies pumped about for political reasons. I guess when in Europe you spent too much time with the conspiracy theorists.

In your previous post you say There are policies the lump all of the European countries into one basket - EU and non-EU" There is NOT A SINGLE LAW THAT COVERS BOTH EU AND NON EU COUNTRIES except where the law a blindingly obvious one (e.g. it is probably illegal to murder someone in all European countries).

WRT the EU alone (which is less than half of Europe): As I said in my previous post, there are a few laws common to all countries, but these are all either health and safety (such as minimum standards for baby seats) or to do with trade between other EU members (for example one member country cannot stop the import of legal goods from another member country). But these are mostly minor things and have no effect on non-European countries. They defiantly have no impact on the matters this thread is about.

However with regard to your views on European porn laws: I am guessing your time in Europe was in the mid 1990s or earlier when porn laws were a lot stronger than they are now (a hell of a lot stronger in Britain), things have changed in the past 15 years.

When you say "Your English-speaking countries are actually parts of the United Kingdom, which is ONE government and which will have one set of laws." YES that was the entire point of my first post!!!

In answer to "How many nude beaches do you guys have in the UK?", quite a few (I have twice ended up walking the dog on a nudist beach without realising it because they weren't fenced off from the rest of the beach and I missed the warning notices). However since you are unlikely to get arrested for sunbathing naked on any beach, there is not as much call for them as there is elsewhere (British law on nudity is a little weird in that it is only illegal if someone objects, if no one objects to you sunbathing naked, the police are powerless to act).

[papagmp]

Originally Posted by ecchi

Where in Europe did you live? Was it a small dark cellar with no contact with the outside world except a TV that only showed a right wing propaganda channel? There is a lot of anti-EU feeling across most (probably all) member countries, and the more right wing of these (e.g. the "England for the English - keep the foreign johnnies out" brigade) put out a lot of false propaganda, for example "Europe is going to ban the traditional British sausage", but basically these are lies pumped about for political reasons. I guess when in Europe you spent too much time with the conspiracy theorists.

In your previous post you say There are policies the lump all of the European countries into one basket - EU and non-EU" There is NOT A SINGLE LAW THAT COVERS BOTH EU AND NON EU COUNTRIES except where the law a blindingly obvious one (e.g. it is probably illegal to murder someone in all European countries).

WRT the EU alone (which is less than half of Europe): As I said in my previous post, there are a few laws common to all countries, but these are all either health and safety (such as minimum standards for baby seats) or to do with trade between other EU members (for example one member country cannot stop the import of legal goods from another member country). But these are mostly minor things and have no effect on non-European countries. They defiantly have no impact on the matters this thread is about.

However with regard to your views on European porn laws: I am guessing your time in Europe was in the mid 1990s or earlier when porn laws were a lot stronger than they are now (a hell of a lot stronger in Britain), things have changed in the past 15 years.

When you say "Your English-speaking countries are actually parts of the United Kingdom, which is ONE government and which will have one set of laws." YES that was the entire point of my first post!!!

In answer to "How many nude beaches do you guys have in the UK?", quite a few (I have twice ended up walking the dog on a nudist beach without realising it because they weren't fenced off from the rest of the beach and I missed the warning notices). However since you are unlikely to get arrested for sunbathing naked on any beach, there is not as much call for them as there is elsewhere (British law on nudity is a little weird in that it is only illegal if someone objects, if no one objects to you sunbathing naked, the police are powerless to act).

Leck mich am Arsch Schlapschwanz

So - you're telling me that the United Kingdom has no treaties or trade agreements with any other European countries?

Your a fucking idiot.

[ecchi]

Originally Posted by papagmp

So - you're telling me that the United Kingdom has no treaties or trade agreements with any other European countries?

For God's sake read the fucking post before commenting on it.

I am happy to debate things with people who disagree with me, but it is a bit bloody pointless if you are too thick to understand what I am saying.

[papagmp]

Originally Posted by ecchi

Where in Europe did you live? Was it a small dark cellar with no contact with the outside world except a TV that only showed a right wing propaganda channel?

Fuck you.

[ecchi]

Originally Posted by papagmp

Fuck you.

You know that is what I like about this board, the way some members can post such intelligent and erudite comments to back up their arguments.

[MadCat]

Originally Posted by ecchi

Where in Europe did you live? Was it a small dark cellar with no contact with the outside world except a TV that only showed a right wing propaganda channel? There is a lot of anti-EU feeling across most (probably all) member countries,

Considering I'm Dutch, I'm pretty qualified to speak on this kind of stuff and you are wrong. The anti-EU feeling exists mostly in England and Denmark. The rest of the EU member nations had issues with a European Constitution.

and the more right wing of these (e.g. the "England for the English - keep the foreign johnnies out" brigade) put out a lot of false propaganda, for example "Europe is going to ban the traditional British sausage", but basically these are lies pumped about for political reasons. I guess when in Europe you spent too much time with the conspiracy theorists.

And this propaganda is effective, how? Why would they need propaganda if there's a big anti-EU feeling anyway? Doesn't the need for anti-EU propaganda sort of defeat that earlier statement of yours saying there's anti-EU feelings in most member states?

In your previous post you say There are policies the lump all of the European countries into one basket - EU and non-EU" There is NOT A SINGLE LAW THAT COVERS BOTH EU AND NON EU COUNTRIES except where the law a blindingly obvious one (e.g. it is probably illegal to murder someone in all European countries).

You're wrong there I'm afraid, there are in fact laws that govern even non-European Union countries as well as EU member states. There's a reason if you speed in, say, the UK, you will get your ticket delivered
at home eventually.

[ecchi]

Originally Posted by MadCat

The anti-EU feeling exists mostly in England and Denmark. The rest of the EU member nations had issues with a European Constitution.

I can't speak for all Europe (which is why I said "probably" and not "definitely", but it is not just England and Denmark, there is a lot of anti EU feeling in ROI, France, and Spain for certain, and I think also in Italy (although I only have one person's word for Italy). There even anti EU feeling in some countries who are still waiting to join!

Originally Posted by MadCat

And this propaganda is effective, how? Why would they need propaganda if there's a big anti-EU feeling anyway? Doesn't the need for anti-EU propaganda sort of defeat that earlier statement of yours saying there's anti-EU feelings in most member states?

I never said it was effective or that there was a need for it, just that it existed. You cannot argue that because something is pointless it does not exist.

If you re-read my post I kind of made the point that most of the spreaders of this kind of stuff are the more right wing groups, you know, the sort of people who will argue violently that black people are inferior to white people. These people are not known for sensible propaganda with a valid point. Unfortunately many newspapers see these as good stories and publish them as true even when they know they are not. Troll through the online archives of some of tabloid type newspapers from the countries I mentioned above to see the sort of things I mean.

Originally Posted by MadCat

You're wrong there I'm afraid, there are in fact laws that govern even non-European Union countries as well as EU member states.

Name one law that all European countries co-operate on. They cannot even all agree to extradite murderers and paedophiles to the country they committed the crime in. You mention the speeding fine, exactly which non EU countries will arrest one of it's own citizens for speeding in Britain? I don't even know a EU country that will do this.

[Pagan]

Every single media entity puts its own spin on things and applies filters to ensure that even the most informed of us remain ill-informed on some things. Important events are swept under the rug in many areas of the US unless there is a local impact (Example, I was in Helsinki in the fall of 1988 when Estonia declared its right to fly its own flag and speak its own language. It was the lead story on all the newscasts there and the only thing the Finns were talking about. Because the news sources were saying that American television was one of the factors in the overthrow, I wanted to see how it was playing out in the states. I bought Time, Newsweek, and US News when they hit the news stands, thinking there would be a story on it. Nothing.. nothing at all, not even a peep even in the following weeks. My cousins were not surprised as it had no direct bearing on the US at all.

I think it is much the same in other countries. Media pushes the stories it thinks will sell and keep people coming back for more, but doesn't do a good job of educating us. As to countries agreeing on one law? Pffft... never happen. It doesn't even happen here in the states! Honestly, I cannot even name one law that ALL 50 states agree on. I know it is also a tough job in Canada.

I think Simon made a very valid point here. IF we as webmasters push the $1 trial and it ends up either depriving visitors OR driving up costs to the merchants, then we need to rethink the picture. A $4.95 trial makes great sense. It is currently less than an hour's wage (minimum), so most can afford it. It gives the visitors a chance to taste what waits for them if they convert, and it is enough that it won't drive processing charges up. Even if there isn't a rule against it, does it make good sense? If it did, the free and $1 trials should have been going through the roof, shouldn't they?

Looking at the poll numbers, we are kind of all bunched. I would suggest letting the webmaster decide between the trials. If the $1 trial sells better for a webmaster give them that tool. A program can adjust its payouts accordingly. (Silvercash currently offers that type of choice). I just don't like seeing the visitor penalized when they go to pay for the subscription.

[Sodo]

I only want to say this: "No matter what country you're in or state, there is too many laws trying to form your life to be equal to others!" One of the the worst danish laws or rules is the 50+% tax that we have to pay----------yes I know it's horrendous sounds like stealing doesn't it, but of cause the government want to make it sound like we get so many features from them by paying those taxes like super hospitals and welfare, super schoolsystems etc. but when you look at it none of that works...hospitals can't get doctors due to them being overworked which also results in more errors and huge waiting lists for almost everything, cancer patients can wait several weeks before they get to get the right scans and examinations and then in the end treatment. The schools can't get well educated teachers due to it being a low payed job stuffed with too many papers to fill in for every student. The welfare system does not work either, too many people take advantage of it so they do not have to work, so for years they can sit on their ass and do nothing, which then results in people really in need of welfare can't get it without having fall crying on their knees begging for it and filling in all kinds of papers etc. etc. .... but of cause a lot of other laws/rules are worse than that....look around and see how your governtment is trying to box you in to fit in the society....I am so tired of it and i hate the bloody politicians lying all the time and cashing in on what they can no matter what their so called "policies" are! The system only works to a certain point and we're the only ones to change it! - that was a bit off track....but this shit really makes me angry....

[anasporn]

this thread has gone waaaaay offtopic ...

[papagmp]

Originally Posted by anasporn

this thread has gone waaaaay offtopic ...

Blame me Ana - Everyone know it's always my fault ;-)

as for the original topic - I'm not planning on offering trials anytime soon.

[[BV]]

Sales have sucked so bad lately I recently went against my better judgement and past experiences thinking something may have changed.

I just tested a 2.95 trial.

I normally run with two options:
A no trial/29.95 monthly recurring and a 69.95 90 day non-recurring option.

I have noticed in the past several months I am seeing way less 69.95 transactions. This made me think I need to lower prices and prompted me to test a 2.95 trial rebilling @ 19.95 just to see what would happen.

My conclusion: The test was a failure. Surfers are broke, and spoiled.

[Ramster]

Thanks for the input

[[BV]]

i'm giving the 2.95 trial a go again, but this time recurring at 19.95

i like what i'm seeing so far as increased signups but i will keep you posted on the rebill conversions

i don't like trials and i don't like being too cheap, but in these depressed times my logic keeps telling me cheaper is better for long term $

we'll see