For those that don't know about Microsoft's latest update..

[amber438]

As of this coming Tuesday, they will push SP2 on all Windows xp users, either thru auto update if you have it on, or by making it mandatory to have sp2 for further updates.

I just installed it to beat the rush and it works fine.

[Head Boy]

It looks as if the price of new Windows 98SE copies is creeping up on Ebay.

[stuveltje]

i still dont have the xp update and i wont get it, i dont have time for shit, and believe me...me Stu...i will get shit if i download that

[Head Boy]

I'm still waiting for someone to tell me the real advantage of XP over 98SE. I like having a DOS basis, and I don't want my ports opened. I can type text so I don't need pictures everywhere, and I don't want to spend time discussing how to rebuild my HDD on the boards. Also I don't want m/s fiddling with my system so that they can sell my stats and push their advertising. And I don't want to have to find 3rd party software for simple tasks like file content searching.

Maybe I'm just an old fool 'cos I don't like Gmail either,

[flyeruk]

I've had SP2 sitting in the "updates are ready for your computer" thingy for months now, but I heard bad things about it, so it's not getting downloaded.

BTW, Head Boy I've just sat and watched your avatar for about 30 secs, chuckling away to myself... he he... ah well, little things please little minds

If my walls had eyes and ears they'd lock me up.

Lisa.

[Toby]

Originally Posted by Head Boy

...Maybe I'm just an old fool 'cos I don't like Gmail either,

No, not an old fool, just "old school"

When I built myself a new box last July I put Win 2000 Pro on it, didn't want any part of WinXP.

[Agent]

I used to work the official Windows XP tech support. The only reason I switched to XP from RedHat is because they gave me two free copies (Home and Pro) and I thought I better use the OS I was just hired to support. Someday I plan on making the switch back to a Unix. Fucking garbage. I actually liked it more then than I do now. I've seen no innovation from MS since they released XP.

[amber438]

I agree with you all, we are MS beta testers. I'm just a reporter..

[swedguy]

That sucks! I installed SP2 some time ago and had to uninstall it since it turned my computer into a 486 with 16MB of ram

[Tommy]

I liked the service pack

It only took a minute or 2 to install and I havent seen a console since I installed it

[lassiter]

Originally Posted by Tommy

I liked the service pack

It only took a minute or 2 to install and I havent seen a console since I installed it

Ya won't see one if you turn off popups in Firefox or Mozilla either.

My main reason for not installing SP2 is that it still apparently breaks Pinnacle Studio 9, which is what I use for video editing & transfers. Granted, Pinnacle should probaby get around to making a patch, but if ony 20% of XP users have done the SP2 upgrade, as MS claims, then I can see why they haven't bothered yet.

[lassiter]

Originally Posted by Head Boy

I'm still waiting for someone to tell me the real advantage of XP over 98SE. I like having a DOS basis, and I don't want my ports opened.

Zone Alarm fixes the ports problem for free.
98SE always locked up on me and required a reboot every day or so - I reboot my XP professional (with SP1) machine maybe twice a month, and that's only when instaling software patches for programs that require me to do so.

Not sure what to tell ya about the DOS issue.

[HappySmut]

Originally Posted by Head Boy

I'm still waiting for someone to tell me the real advantage of XP over 98SE. I like having a DOS basis, and I don't want my ports opened. I can type text so I don't need pictures everywhere, and I don't want to spend time discussing how to rebuild my HDD on the boards. Also I don't want m/s fiddling with my system so that they can sell my stats and push their advertising. And I don't want to have to find 3rd party software for simple tasks like file content searching.

Maybe I'm just an old fool 'cos I don't like Gmail either,

windows xp is a horrible program if it crashes and cant reinstall then you need linux or another xp machine to save your files lack of a good dos console is needed for backing files up on a major crash
there ntfs file system is only good for users that create huge files over 2gig
ntfs is only good for server applications but i dont recommend useing anything windows for server related :-P

however i recommend you check out windows nt 2000 got the same basic interface has windows 98se and is much more stable however dos is stripped out
and your gonna have problems installing it to older computers or running with hardware before year 2000. you can install it to a fat 32 or ntfs partion i choose fat32 it just makes life easier for the just in case it boots up slower then 98 but applications run much faster and you can actually leave your computer on for more then 25 days without a freeze or a crash. windows 2000 is the best operating system i have seen yet come out of the bowls of microsoft.

did i mention xp SUCKS!

[RawAlex]

only 20% have done sp2, and the problem is that makes for hundreds or thousands if not millions of walking time bombs filling up on spyware, viruses, and bullshit.

Install SP2 already. Get with the same. If it break pinncle or whatever, then contact them and tell them to fix thier shit already. Don't blame microsoft because companies are using sloppy code that isn't compliant.

Alex

[lassiter]

Originally Posted by RawAlex

only 20% have done sp2, and the problem is that makes for hundreds or thousands if not millions of walking time bombs filling up on spyware, viruses, and bullshit.

Well, some of that 80% (me included) haven't installed it because our 3rd-party firewall and antivirus software is vastly superior to MS's first-ever weak attempts at implementing such apps, and we don't want the hassle of dealing with reconfiguring our machines to override MS's inferior software. (Have you seen how many security patches for SP2 have been released already? - it's not the big fix MS would like to pretend it is.)

[RawAlex]

lassiter, sorry I just don't understand all of this. I don't use a microsoft browser, I don't accept mail attachments, and I don't need a zone alarm or anti-virus because I DON'T GET ANY.

Oh yeah, did I mention I connect to the net through a firewall set, and nobody from the outside can port scan me anyway? I do run two versions of spyware remover (microsoft / giant and lavasoft).

I let the microsoft stuff do what it wants, and let it go at that. The three paths of most virus infections are microsoft browsers, email attachments, and open machines. Firewall, FireFox, block attachments... your life is so much easier.

You cannot tell me for a minute that SP1 is more secure than SP2... SP1 is holier than the pope.

[Rorschach]

You guys need to lurk on some 0-day exploit irc channels for a while.

[Jim]

Originally Posted by lassiter

Ya won't see one if you turn off popups in Firefox or Mozilla either.

My main reason for not installing SP2 is that it still apparently breaks Pinnacle Studio 9, which is what I use for video editing & transfers. Granted, Pinnacle should probaby get around to making a patch, but if ony 20% of XP users have done the SP2 upgrade, as MS claims, then I can see why they haven't bothered yet.

My Pinnacle Studio 9 works fine with the upgrade.

[JanTM]

I have XP and SP2 also. Its rock solid - this version was installed 18 months ago and has never given me any trouble.

[GeorgeTH]

I remember installing SP2 and swearing for weeks after - so I understand the 80% who haven't...

Only 2 days ago I came across more evidence how well MS shit is written: when my "temporary internet files" had filled up for the umpteenth time (despite the fact I have the option enabled "Empty Temporary Internet Files when browser is closed"!) I finally discovered the burried option to move the Temp Files to another partition, a set-up I had always used in the past...

This set-up actually works rather well: create a smallish partition of up to ~2 gigs at the end of the partition table (inner section = faster read) of your HD, and move only the swap file (virtual memory) and internet cache onto that partition. Thus these constantly changing files don't mess up the disk integrity of C: anymore, and you don't have to optimize your disk as often (or suffer slow read times).

Anyway: after I decided to move the "temporary internet files' IE asked me to log-off before it could proceed - - - sounded weird but it was the only option given. So I finished my work in Firefox before I allowed this. When I finally clicked 'yes' IE created another bloody sub-directory (now I have F:\IECache\temporary internet files\temporary internet files\) and then blocked computer use for over 20 minutes (great time to have some lunch - just: I wasn't hungry!). It then logged me off, came back to the blue log-in screen (I'm the only user account), I had to manually log back in, and then the real mess started:
- XP decided to automatically re-connect to the internet (I'm not on 'always on')
- came straight away with a "Generic Host Error"
- the MS/Giant Anti-Spyware crashed (fatal error)
- error reporting of course didn't work due to "Generic Host Error"
- the machine hung itself!
- re-boot - same as above!
- turn off computer and ADSL modem
- wait 3 minutes
- boot into "Safe Mode"
- discover all Internet Settings had been changed
- IP addresses overwritten
- local network disabled
- internet connection sharing disabled
- network cards lost their driver settings
= all from just moving the temporary internet files in IE!

Great piece of shit you're forcing upon us, Microsoft

[RawAlex]

George, that isn't microsoft - you had a virus or malware that was pissed off when you moved the temp files. You really need to scan you system more often, preferably with lavalsoft products or cwshredder. The results you saw are EXACTLY the results of a very common "at the network connection" level malware attack designed to redirect you to other sites and to change ads, filter sponsor codes, and such. Moving your temp files to another folder almost certainly was a trigger for all the other stuff you saw.

Rorschach, I should point out that AGAIN, 99.9% of all virus and malware attacks require diminished defenses, out of date machines, or users being stupid enough to download and install the programs. All the people not running SP2 and not keeping their machines up to date are what these people prey on. 0 day stuff is RARELY used in the wild beyond just that, most of what you see day in and day out is script kiddies running crap that is 6 months to 2 years old, exploiting holes in systems for people still running wind 98 or XP with few updates or out of date updates (like SP1).

I would appear people would rather bitch and pay hundreds of dollars for software than take care and think about their actions before they take them.

As a side note, the malware / toolbar people are VERY likely to make the internet completely unusuable in the next couple of years. I am expecting that internet usage in the US and Canada will drop significantly as people get tired of forever having to "fix the fucking computer" and will limit their surfing to specific known sites, corporate websites, and such. They will shun search engines,chat rooms, and blogs sites as the links from these places will be the first steps towards getting their computers all fucked up again.

Alex

[RawAlex]

Oh yeah, George, do yourself a favor - stop using IE.

Alex

[GeorgeTH]

Originally Posted by RawAlex

George, that isn't microsoft - you had a virus or malware that was pissed off when you moved the temp files. You really need to scan you system more often, preferably with lavalsoft products or cwshredder. The results you saw are EXACTLY the results of a very common "at the network connection" level malware attack designed to redirect you to other sites and to change ads, filter sponsor codes, and such. Moving your temp files to another folder almost certainly was a trigger for all the other stuff you saw.

Oh yeah, George, do yourself a favor - stop using IE.

Alex

I scan my system (almost) daily - and haven't found anything for over 3 weeks... [Ad-Aware, SpyBot, and MS/Giant, plus a daily sheduled virus check]

By now all I use my IE for is some password sites (like this board and several sponsor stats) - simply because I haven't moved all passwords yet (too lazy), testing page lay-outs, and of course gallery submissions since my version of RoboForm only works with IE, and the newer free Mozilla version is close to useless for that! And yes, believe it or not: ~ 3 weeks ago we got a Trojan from a TGP submission page - thanks!

[lassiter]

Originally Posted by RawAlex

Firewall, FireFox, block attachments... your life is so much easier.

That's pretty much what I was saying, Alex. I use Mozilla, Zone Alarm (um, you did say you use a firewall just now, right? ZA is the one I use), and have my McAfee anti-virus configured to auto-upgrade its data files and to auto-delete any suspicious email attachments before I ever see 'em. And I've never had a virus infection or OS takeover either. Now since I appear to have close to 100% protection already with little or no effort on my part, why would I voluntarily agree to "upgrade" to something that will not offer me any more protection than I already have, but will break a major crucial piece of hardware/software I use in my business (Pinnacle Studio 9)?

I'd agree with you that for the clueless who know nothing about the importance of firewalls and about the holes in IE and Outlook, the default settings of the SP2 upgrade will offer them some additional amount of protection. But not nearly as much as what I have installed and running just fine already with my 3rd-party applications.

For the record, I wouldn't have trusted Zone Alarm or McAfee's first software versions either. But they've been doing these apps for years now, while SP2 is MS's first-ever attempt at doing 'em - and I could probably find the pointer to the list of major exploits that ZA catches that got right through the SP2 firewall (though presumably one of the later SP2 patches may have fixed some of that).

In an ideal world, I'd be running some flavor of Unix, and if I ever start operating my own server network instead of using a webhost, my servers sure won't be running any flavor of MS.

[RawAlex]

Lassiter, SOFTWARE firewalls are NOT the best idea. Hardware firewalls, ones that physically remove you from the net and put something in the way are the best way to go. Zonealarm is nice, but still has the potential to be deactivated because it is software. Many viruses and malware programs first step on intrusion is to disable or uninstall zone alarm and anti-virus. A hardware firewall (even a simple DSL router) will mean your machine is NOT exposed directly on the net, and most of the dangerous ports are not open directly. Zonealarm is good mostly on laptops, if you are connecting to unknown networks etc, but I would never use a software firewall as main protection for a main machine, your protection and the thing being protected are many times more secure when they operate independantly. ZA is better than nothing, but not the most effective way to do the job.

Without SP2 (and the upgrades and security patches that follow) you continue to increase the likelihood on a daily basis that someone will hack your system using one or more of the known microsoft holes. Have you checked to make sure pinnacle will break? Do they not have a patch, fix, or other? Are you 100% sure it will fail, or is it a "I heard from someone who read a blog about a guy who had a computer..." sort of thing? I think you might be making your business decisions on less than complete information, which is risky!

Alex