Do we, as an adult webmaster community, oppose supporting adult versions of YouTube?

[Greenguy]

I've read 3 separate threads on the topic so far this morning:
http://www.greenguysboard.com/board/...ad.php?t=39291
http://www.greenguysboard.com/board/...ad.php?t=39294
http://www.greenguysboard.com/board/...ad.php?t=39281

In each, I posted, assuming that we, as an adult webmaster community, oppose these type of site.

I understand that they are legal & that's not much we can do about them, but that doesn't mean we have to support them.

I think we've talked about this in the past (I can't find the thread) but if I remember correctly, the general consensus was that sites like this are of little or no benefit to the JoeBlow webmasters that we have here on the board. (most of us are in the Link List/Free Site and/or TGP/Gallery business)

So before I continue with my "this board is not for you" mindset when I reply to these threads, I'd like to know if I'm right in my thinking.

Please vote as well as post comments/questions

[Pendo]

too much free porn can't be good. I don't support them.

[Fonz]

I'm split but leaning over to the NO side more since it's giving away more free porn again but with less advertising possibilities for us small webmasters than let's say freesites or TGP galleries.

If you can put your watermark on the movies it might be another opportunity to get some people over to your site. But then again I can imagine it's not the greatest traffic ever...

I tested it once and am still waiting for the loads of traffic to come in

[MrMaryLou]

The only benefit would be to a pay site owner if any at all and just because of the watermarks on the movies. I really don't see it making money for anyone at all, other than a chance of a surfer typing in a URL from a movie but then again why would they if there is a never ending supply of movies.

[Greenguy]

Originally Posted by Fonz

...If you can put your watermark on the movies it might be another opportunity to get some people over to your site. But then again I can imagine it's not the greatest traffic ever...

I think that was one of the few Pros that we came up with - assuming you have your own exclusive content, then you could slap your domain on the movie & get traffic that way.

I know that there's a few paysite owners & webmasters that produce their own content and if they wanted to try it & support it, that's their business (but I think that most of those - that I know anyway - would not support this)

[Jim]

I really don't see any benefit to anyone other than the people that own these sites and the sponsors. Assuming that adult programs go the same route as TV networks (except viacom). They will be happy to provide the video clips. And really, who can blame them?

But sooner or later, these youtube type sites are going to see that they are offering too much for free and adjust. Freesites didn't start out with only a few pictures. They started with 5 - 30 Thousand and saw money slipping through their (our) fingers.

[Jim]

Oh yeah, I am kind of torn on the vote. If they were done right with tiny clips, I think they would work well for everyone and be a good source of traffic. But as they are now, they just offer way too much. I guess I will have to vote "no".

[Useless]

Originally Posted by Greenie

I know that there's a few paysite owners & webmasters that produce their own content and if they wanted to try it & support it, that's their business (but I think that most of those - that I know anyway - would not support this)

I fully support their right to find innovative ways to promote their own sites, but they should not be advertising them or discussing them on webmaster boards. It's sort of a fuck you to affiliate webmasters. I realize they don't mean it that way, but really, if you are openly discussing such projects, which exclude affiliates, on a webmaster board, it's a fuck you.

I may not know what works , but I do know what does not work. Posting lengthy video clips of your exclusive content without a glaringly large adjoining tour link is asinine.

Also, why is it, if we create free sites/galleries with their content, we are allowed to promote only their paysite on those pages, yet they'll allow their movie clips to be viewed on a tube site where the predominant advertising is that of OTHER sites? Hmmm...

[JustRobert]

I voted NO.

I understand a paysite owner may want to use every resource they could to sell as well. Hoping the watermarks bring someone over to buy. I am a small fish and even I think somtimes that I give away to much free stuff with tgp and linklists. Still fall under the old thought of tease them with free and let the paysites please. Unfortunately I feel I am in the minority on this and may need to change. But untill they can come to a difinite agreement with 2257 and secondary producers I will stick to teasing nudes

[docholly]

ON behalf of one of my camhoes, I submit clips to a site called clips4sale.. they are anywhere between 120-240 seconds each depending on the material presented. While I know this isn't a "free" porn site, it's amazing the number of people who purchase clips. I think it would be much MORE effective if program owners wanted traffic to do it in these little sound bytes and sell them for 1.99 or whatever. then the surfer gets a "taste" and if they want more, go buy a membership.

On the weird porn surfer note: Monday a guy purchased 75.00 worth of 180 second clips. He could have bought a monthly membership to the website for 24.99 and gotten all 150 full length videos.

Soo NO to the free Adult YouTube

[plateman]

I oppose it, as more and more surfers find out about these sites, coupled with file sharing programs, this can only mean less money for us webmasters

sure the owners are making money off of some of the traffic on those sites....but those kind of sites are taking the traffic from the real sites that make us money like the LL and tgps and so on

[emmanuelle]

free porn = free porn = free porn

[Toby]

I have a problem with any kind of site based on surfer uploaded adult content. A significant percentage will always be unauthorized by the legit content owners. They'll give you the old line, "we pull all unauthorized copyrighted content as soon as we're notified." Sorry, in my opinion, that's not good enough.

[LowryBigwood]

Originally Posted by MrMaryLou

The only benefit would be to a pay site owner if any at all and just because of the watermarks on the movies. I really don't see it making money for anyone at all, other than a chance of a surfer typing in a URL from a movie but then again why would they if there is a never ending supply of movies.

I came very close to setting up a youtube type of adult site about 6 months back but ended up deciding against it. Mainly for the reason Toby mentioned about user uploaded content and 2257 worries.

Anyhow, they don't have to type in your url, you can embed a linked watermark to your site just like the youtube guys. So if they click on that watermark, it'll pop a new window sending em your way. The only benefit I can really see is I believe it would be a good way to gain traffic, but then again I am betting most them aren't going to buy porn anyways. But, I don't know..

I voted NO.

[Tommy]

you guys are a bunch of hypocrytes

I have seen so many webmasters defend porn by claiming free speech but now that their income could be threatened free speech doesn't matter so much

to much free porn is no good for the business but of course those very same webmasters are putting porn on the web for free.
but of course they are putting out just the right amount of free porn, so its ok


ohh and lets not forget the copyright BS
that's like telling Ford they cant build cars cause some of them might be used as get away cars to rob banks

you would starve technical innovation and progress because somebody might violate a copyright. what if they said that about the Internet as whole back in 1995

99.9 percent of adult content owners never bother to file any copyrights

[LowryBigwood]

Originally Posted by Greenie

I think that was one of the few Pros that we came up with - assuming you have your own exclusive content, then you could slap your domain on the movie & get traffic that way.

I don't think you would even need your own content Greenie. The surfers upload their videos, but when they embed the movie player onto their other pages or share them, then your watermark/logo is linked back to your site anyhow.

Which is why i worried about user uploaded content and 2257 as Toby stated.

[Greenguy]

Originally Posted by Tommy

you guys are a bunch of hypocrytes

I have seen so many webmasters defend porn by claiming free speech but now that their income could be threatened free speech doesn't matter so much

to much free porn is no good for the business but of course those very same webmasters are putting porn on the web for free.
but of course they are putting out just the right amount of free porn, so its ok


ohh and lets not forget the copyright BS
that's like telling Ford they cant build cars cause some of them might be used as get away cars to rob banks

you would starve technical innovation and progress because somebody might violate a copyright. what if they said that about the Internet as whole back in 1995

99.9 percent of adult content owners never bother to file any copyrights

You're missing the point - we all know it has legit uses.

What I'm trying to see is that if my feelings are the same as most of the people on this board (aka community) as far as not supporting it.

Understanding something is completely different than supporting it & I find it really hard to understand how you could support something that would teach surfers that they don't need Link Lists or TGPs, seeing as you own one of the biggest out there.

[Greenguy]

Originally Posted by LowryBigwood

I don't think you would even need your own content Greenie. The surfers upload their videos, but when they embed the movie player onto their other pages or share them, then your watermark/logo is linked back to your site anyhow.

Which is why i worried about user uploaded content and 2257 as Toby stated.

Technically, that's a secondary issue & not really a major concern of anyone that doesn't own the copyright's. The very legit versions of these that (claim) do not allow copyrighted material to be posted unless you own the copyright.

So in a world where all the content has permission to be posted, that would bring us back to my main point

[Greenguy]

I know it's only about 2.5 hours into the thread, but I am happy to see the 1/17/1 vote so far

[Tommy]

Originally Posted by Greenie

You're missing the point - we all know it has legit uses.

What I'm trying to see is that if my feelings are the same as most of the people on this board (aka community) as far as not supporting it.

Understanding something is completely different than supporting it & I find it really hard to understand how you could support something that would teach surfers that they don't need Link Lists or TGPs, seeing as you own one of the biggest out there.

I am not missing the point. I really think you are

you don't like it cause it might cost you some money

the company's that sold pay phones said the same thing about cell phones they were wrong then and you are wrong now

millions of companies or people have been put out of work because of progress should we have banned computers back in the 70s or ban robots today

just cause I make my living from a link list doesn't mean I am gonna turn myself into a hypocrite

so basically your argument is
my free porn is OK but theirs isn't cause I make less money

[ClickBuster]

I support FLV and video stream as a solution replacing video download, which is the format most of the Tube sites use.

I personally use some of those sites to put automated content on my pages allowing people to directly stream the content off there.

However, I do not support full length videos to be posted on such sites, which one of the common practices at Bad Jojo for example. There're clips with over 5 minutes of play time as well as full length videos split into several parts - that way the distribution method becomes no different than warez, P2P, torrents, etc.

If done correctly to the webmaster community I see no offense in this kind of sites. I personally think that PornoTube may be quite useful for skillful webmasters in order to bring new traffic to their sites or help add new content to their existing pages.

One of the things I like about Tube sites is that you can create FLV content for your pages, but if you publish it on a Tube site you get free hosting (if you'd rather link to a remotely hosted video) and extra exposure from the site's visitors.

There's and there will be more than enough free content. However, I don't think it matters nowdays. Savvy people have their ways to get full-length videos without paying - there're more than enough pass sites and mIRC channels out there for the looking, not to mention everything else.

Tube sites are just another version to display free content. From my POV it's the more advanced and up-to-day method to do it and I think that most of the users would prefer it, instead of browsing differently looking, unstandartisized pages. Not to mention the community features of that kind of sites, which IMHO seriously lacks on TGP and LinkList sites.

I jerk off quite a lot to know that it's much better to go and click 2 times to watch a video, that's going to start immediately and even if it's only 2 mins long it's much better than going thru tens of pages to find something fitting my needs

[Useless]

I don't see tube sites as progress. There is nothing new about the way in which they stream video. Hell, it's not even a good business model. Everything I've heard is that the ROI is very low and that dealing with the barrage of copyright and other legal issues is a huge pain in the balls.

I think most of us are anti-tube for the same reason we are against free sites with 1k pics on them. We should, as a community, have some type of barometer of how much free porn is too much compared to the amount of advertising the surfer must confront.

[ClickBuster]

Also let me add a few other points before I go:

1. SE traffic is not built by hosting videos
2. The traffic quality of TGPs is MOSTLY low
3. All of us expose the surfers to huge amounts of free content
4. Most people don't know what FLV is, nor how to save it on their PCs, but all galleries and free sites allow you to download the files on your PC
5. Tube sites are mostly filled with freeloaders

What I'm saying is - it's the same thing. The difference is in the technology used to get the content to the surfers and like it or not - Tube sites are more up to date than TGPs and LLs.

The thruth is in between, never in the ends. Some would say it's in the gray spectrum

[ClickBuster]

Originally Posted by Useless Warrior

I think most of us are anti-tube for the same reason we are against free sites with 1k pics on them. We should, as a community, have some type of barometer of how much free porn is too much compared to the amount of advertising the surfer must confront.

True, but who cares about tons of videos when after watching 5 crappy video one after another you just close the site and move on to the next one. Peope who are serious porn buyers care about the quality of delivered free porn, not the amounts. IMHO it's always like that, no matter the industry.

[Useless]

Originally Posted by ClickBuster

True, but who cares about tons of videos when after watching 5 crappy video one after another you just close the site and move on to the next one. Peope who are serious porn buyers care about the quality of delivered free porn, not the amounts. IMHO it's always like that, no matter the industry.

I realize what surfers prefer to have. But we're supposed to convince them to pay to get the higher quality, not give it to them so they have no motivation to purchase. We give them lower quality samples, plenty of advertising, and tell them to join if they want the full-sized, full length, crystal clear, hi-def whatevers.

I understand what you are saying about TGPs and Link Lists compared to the tube sites. TGPs and Link Lists have been a very static model for quite awhile, but I'd vastly prefer see them evolve, and I think there is room for that, rather than seeing tubes handing out buckets of video clips without having the proper advertising:content ratio.