AVS Sites vs. Free Sites - Which do you prefer?
 

Okay I did a post on PPS vs. Revshare, now it's time for AVS vs. Free Sites. I've tried promoting AVS sites a few years ago and had no luck, but I gave up without really putting any effort into it. My question is, do you really get better conversion ratios with AVS? I know people say that since visitors are proven to be willing to use their credit card sales are better, but is this really true or just theory? What are your past experiences with AVS?

Curious on this too. Im just getting into AVS sites myself

I am going to take the chance that you meant AVS instead of AVN and change it. :)

I am trying for it as well nowadays, thanks to Sheep Guy ;) I only made 4 sites so far, so can't really tell you which is "better". I intend to go on doing both btw.

ill tell ya the truth

years ago most of my money came from avs sites but since then its droped off to almost nothing

i would love to get back in to it again but dont know who to use etc etc

I think AVS sites can sell well. People back in the day built feeder sites just to get linklist traffic but those numbers aren't as strong as they used to be.
Building for sales = should do well
Building for traffic = not the best option
I know this one kicks ass
www.xxxsexticket.com
http://www.xxxsexticket.com/affiliates.cgi

Thanks Jim! :)

For years every free site I built was designed to promote and AVS site of the same niche. You can't get a better match for content.

I've always been a big fan of CyberAge and after 6 or 7 years in the business I don't understand why more people don't use them.

Sent ya a PM Tommy, and if anyone is real serious about getting into AVS's let me know. I know that part of the biz very well from an impartial point of view since I deal with almost every AVS out there ;)

SheepGuy, which is more profitable for you: Free sites or AVS? If the money is better I would love to learn.

SirMoby I agree, I am still getting sales in one of the micro niches from cyberage sites that are 4+ years old

|thumb

I do a lot of AVS and use my blogs, which I think of as another form of free site, to promote them.

I make more with AVS, but then I've been doing them longer and have more AVS sites.

Be sure to check http://adultbouncer.com/ |thumb

You are welcome to contact me with any questions regarding it: 371085907 ;)

Do a lot of link lists accept AVS sites these days? Or what % would you say accept ONLY free sites?

See my sig for a list of some sites that list AVS, there are plenty more out there as well.

i would say free sites...

Check out a company i used to work for, I am no longer with them but I can def vouch for their integrity.

Sexkey.com It solves both your needs being a free AVS. Whatever you decide to do, make sure you really make your tour compelling.

While they are getting other sites, it is yours that needs to convert.

When I first started in this business, one of the first people I "met" online, turned me on to avs sites. Thats all I did for like the next 2 years. As mentioned, it was all about getting the link list traffic from the avs service and it worked very well. Sadly some big players left and the rest kinda caught on. The sales sure are not what they use to be, it pretty much dried up.

It still doesn't matter if you make free or avs sites, you still have to get traffic to them, just as you would a free site. I don't see avs sites as being some magical money making secret. Just my opinion...:)

It still comes down to getting traffic. Maybe others have had success with it.

one thing I was always wondering is do we built just a doorway for the AVS and link to existing free site(main page) or we built AVS site only for the AVS themselves?

Absolutely. It's not magic, or get rich quick. I've explained what I like about it as part of a business model far too often, but the brief version is, rebills retain, less format rules to follow than fs's, qualified traffic inside.

AVS internal LL's still send some traffic, but if you're relying on that for sales, you'll starve.

IMO AVS will have better ratios for up-sells, but the traffic is just not there. But of course you can also sell the avs and make money. Im struggling with that side of it if im honest but im desperately trying. But the sponsor side is first class. You have to add to as many link lists as you can find to get more traffic, but yeah, avs traffic converts well.

I dont find it retains as well but maybe thats just me.

Free sites get traffic
I belive thats all there is to say

Cool! End of discussion. I'll be giving mine up then |crazy|

If done right and submitted to the right places, avs sites can get very good traffic. Especially with a great link and site style like sheepguy has.

More traffic does not equal more sales.
I believe thats all there is to say.

Brad

I think I am not the only one wondering.... Huh?

It all depends on three factors, the AVS team itself, you, and the other AVS webmasters.

With an AVS you're giving the surfer a gillion times more bang for his buck. That means your site(s) have to be neato-nifty and other webmasters have to keep up as well.

The AVS has to make sure they have a crack staff without outsourcing to death, futzing up scripts, not handling processor updates etc.

One screwup and the whole thing can unravel.

My best bet is look at the niche you're approaching and find an AVS that's good for that. Also watch out for bringing in a new niche. I did that with one AVS many years ago and the next thing you know they pumped in dozens of hack cartoon/hentai sites almost overnight and then got real stupid with not answering webmaster questions etc. I dropped them like a hot potato.

Also don't put all your eggs into one basket either. Combine AVS sites with other sites.

Ronnie, i think they just mean the freesites get the traffic because more link lists will list freesites but not too many take avs submissions.

Brad

I'm just getting into avs, and with sheepguy's excellent help, I've got some of the ground rules down and have started to get some traffic. I didn't realize there were so many list that accepted avs, but sheepguy has quite a few on his website, and after he explained a few little avs oddities, I am getting lots of listings. No sales yet, though.

For sheepguy and others: is there any benefit to doing exclusive sites, or should you build a site and list same one on two or more avs list?

Good for you. Sheepguy's an old pro. For me AVS was so easy. Just put up site and money rolled in. Got too complacent though didn't expand like I should have. It's because I do commission work as well as signups and rebills so I get extra, extra.

So when did you last get a fat cheque from people PAYING to visit your free site?

I agree with Sir Moby's comment "every free site I built was designed to promote and AVS site of the same niche", except that only about 50% of my free sites are aimed at my AVS, the rest go to other projects (and I also 'hedge my bets' by having a few sponsor adds too, in case the surfer does not trust AVS or is already a paid up member of the AVS I am pushing).

In AVS is more money...

My observations.

AVS:

+ Slightly better traffic quality when it comes to the initial hit (after first getting listed). But after this initial hit, freesite traffic has a slight edge.

- About 100 - 400 hits per day per major AVS listing for the first few days when you get near the top of the list. After that the amount sent averages to about the same as freesites.

- Can be harder to create sites for than freesites, or easier. Depends on the AVS. But with most of the major ones in order to get the most hits you have to create a premium site for their premium program. Most of these premium programs want ungodly amounts of content and hassle.

- Some AVSs have rules such as no watermarks (they say no large watermarks, but it effectively ends up the same) on the content in order to get listed. This will hurt you if you use sponsor content.

+ If your site gets delisted, generally you have the advantage of knowing about it and will be able to resubmit it right away. Even if you have 500 sites. Absent special arrangements, you can't do this with freesites.....usually. So overall your sites are probably goign to be listed longer on AVS.

- Internal AVS is usually outside the public area these days. This means those internal pages are not indexed by search engines. This is in contrast to your freesites which ARE indexed by search engines usually. So do not expect SE traffic from the internal AVS.

- AVSs tend NOT to like people who do not actively sell their program and generate signups. They consider people doing upsells only to be leaches. Some will start making excuses to not list you, or may even just flat out ignore you.

- You probably aren't going to make much money just doing AVS and relying on upsells these days. You need to sell the AVS as well.

+ You can typically submit more than one site in theory to the AVS per day. Some allow 3 - 5, others are in theory unlimited. But try submitting 100 sites a day for a month withiut making a single AVS sale and see what happens. :D

Freesites:

Well, my fingers are tired now from typing all that. |potleaf|
The above should be enough details. Hope it helps. |thumb

This was something I was wondering about because isn't it kinda wrong to charge someone to view a SPONSORS content anyway?

I was thinking that I would make a few AVS sites for each niche I promote and promote them with my freesites using one of my outgoing links like Sir Moby and ecchi said.

Thanks for the input everyone, it's been very helpful.

Have to check each programs tos, but as long as you promote the sponsor too it should be fine.

Brad

What it comes down to is this IMO.
-Don't rely on the AVS for traffic or SE help. If you want to make money you still have to work for that yourself. You will get some traffic from the AVS, but if you rely on that as your sole source you will go broke.
-Always sell the AVS service first, sponsors second, especially in the case of premium sites that give you recurring income. With premium I don't try to sell anything but the service on the public pages. Save the ads for the inside pages where you have cc carrying surfers who have paid for porn in the past.
- It's tough to make money with premium AVS's using watermarked sponsor content. That's pretty much the way it is.
- You can still make money with watermarked sponsor content on basic AVS sites or "free" AVS sites like Sexkey or FreeNetPass, just don't expect a lot of hits from the AVS.
-If you can build premium AVS sites they retain members far better than any paysite because they give surfers a shitload more than any paysite. Recurring income is very nice to have!!
-It's faster and easier to build a basic AVS site than it is to build a free site and you can advertise almost as much on them as on free sites. And what you advertise on the inside is only being seen by surfers with credit cards who have paid for porn in the past.

AVS's are just part of a business model, not all of it, I do well with them.

Yes. Some AVS systems are more lax on requirements too. Some are very ridiculous. I am going to avoid naming names but I know of one which was insisting on 468x60 banners with a text link under each one, AND for a while was trying to get everyone to sepearate it from the content with a horizontal rule. On top of that only one banner was allowed per page, with no more than either four or six banners total. I finally decided they aren't really worth the hassle for trying to get upsells and dropped them.

Most of the sponsors do not mind as long as you are promoting only them on those pages. Some do mind (check the terms), others will want you to email the url to the avs sites for approval.

One thing about AVS is that it is nothing like it used to be and progressively gets worse part due to conversions, another part due to lowered payouts, and another part due to the AVSs own actions such as taking the linkslist off of public pages or raising site requirements.

I started out doing AVS in late 1998. You used to be able to simply throw up a site and earn $50+ a day from people signing up from the AVS public list alone (none of your own real traffic). I'm not kidding or exaggerating here one bit as hard as it may seem to believe for anyone who is kind of new to this. Makes ya wish you had time machine, doesn't it? :D

I learned about the watermarks the hard way at CA. The termonology is a little odd, they "accept" your site, but it doesn't show up on list or the search function. Guess how much traffic you get...:)

I am now trying to get some traffic to those sites by listing on some list that accept avs sites. Also, I have some sources for non-watermarked content...in general I enjoy building them as it is a little different and less structure...time will tell if it pays.

One question: the signup revenue looks nice, but does most revenue come from that, or from sponsor links (as in freesites..) ?

I know the AVS you're talking about, and they don't even accept new WM's anymore, and while I still get paid and can add new sites, I'm kind of wondering how much longer they will last. They have added a couple of innovations lately that are pretty good for existing wm's, but they are so rule-obsessive that they haven't seen the big picture in a very long time. I still promote my sites with them, but if they do go tits up I can switch them to other AVS's pretty quickly.