Should I Keep Submitting?

[Licker4U]

I've long been a proponent of "submit to link lists that send traffic" but after intense research (about 30 min) I've found that 99% of my sales since Oct. 2006 have come from two recip groupings. There are only a very few sales that came from one or two other recip groups. Is there any reason to keep submitting to the other lists? I feel like the law of diminishing returns is biting me on the butt.

[Mr Spock]

Are these non-producers sending you any traffic?

[SheepGuy]

Probably sound like a newbie, but how do you track which sale comes from which recip group?

[virgohippy]

Originally Posted by SheepGuy

Probably sound like a newbie, but how do you track which sale comes from which recip group?

I do it through server logs.

Tough call Licker4U. I haven't been able to figure that one out either.

One of the reasons I still make two or three groups still is the possability that a smaller list will grow, and it takes far less time to build/submit one more mirror then to make another freesite.

[Licker4U]

Originally Posted by Mr Spock

Are these non-producers sending you any traffic?

Of course. I wouldn't keep submitting if they didn't send any traffic. My monthly uniques are running around 150K.

Originally Posted by SheepGuy

Probably sound like a newbie, but how do you track which sale comes from which recip group?

Sponsor stats tell me what site of mine made a sale. Go to that site and see which recip table is on it. Don't think I can narrow it down any more than that.

[ronnie]

One reason to submit to all would be more linkbacks that could help with SEO. But again, if it's worth to you.

[ponygirl]

another thing to think about - if you have links to your hubs/LLs on your sites, how do you know surfers aren't coming from those seemingly unproductive LLs, clicking through and bookmarking your site. They may buy later, or buy something else, but you won't know where that particular surfer originally came from.

in my eyes, traffic is traffic & you can never get enough. If you're taking the traffic that may not buy right away and sending them around your network then it's all good

[HowlingWulf]

As you can see it's a gray area that's up to you. I'm a little tougher on those LLs that require category recips even when just launching.

[virgohippy]

Originally Posted by ponygirl

If you're taking the traffic that may not buy right away and sending them around your network then it's all good

A wise hippy once told me:

Don't ignore those who put a little more effort into making a decision.

[Mr Spock]

Originally Posted by Licker4U

Sponsor stats tell me what site of mine made a sale. Go to that site and see which recip table is on it. Don't think I can narrow it down any more than that.

Another way to do it would be to set up a campaign per recip group assuming your sponsors have that facility , that way you are able track more easily which recip group is providing you with traffic and sales. Bit more work, but it provides you with the info you need to make informed decisions.

[Lemmy]

Here's the reply you'll get from most smaller site owners: Every click counts; a hit is a hit; you never know where the next sale will come from etc etc etc.

The reply you'll get from me (pay attention because my opinion counts): I used to submit to close to 200 LLs. Major waste of time. I don't believe there are that many serious LLs in the universe, big or small. 95% of my traffic came from 10 LLs. Based purely on traffic numbers I could justify having only one recip table (16 recips), but I believe in Karma (the Earl principle). Therefore I have a second recip table on most of my submits, gathered from known serious WMs from this board. Not because they send a lot of traffic, but because I like to spread the love around and (selfishly) hoping for some in return. If everybody who submits to my LLs really studied their server stats they'd probably drop me instantly.

The only reply that matters: The one you get from the guy in the mirror. How much is your time worth? Seriously, once the recip table is built it takes a grand total of 30 seconds to duplicate a site. Just make sure everyone on subsequent tables are serious because even 30 seconds is a waste of time if it's spent on a dickhead.

[ponygirl]

very well said Lemmy, that's it in a nutshell

[ronnie]

Good post Lemmy...

Another thing many people don't bring up when this type of thread comes up, which is often, It also can depend greatly on how long it takes for you to submit. Some people have it down to a science and can submit very quickly so submitting to more sites, for them, is not as time consuming as it may be to another webmaster. For another webmaster, submitting to another 50 or more sites, might take more time than it is worth. We only have some much time in a day.

[japamor]

Originally Posted by Lemmy

Here's the reply you'll get from most smaller site owners: Every click counts; a hit is a hit; you never know where the next sale will come from etc etc etc.

The reply you'll get from me (pay attention because my opinion counts): I used to submit to close to 200 LLs. Major waste of time. I don't believe there are that many serious LLs in the universe, big or small. 95% of my traffic came from 10 LLs. Based purely on traffic numbers I could justify having only one recip table (16 recips), but I believe in Karma (the Earl principle). Therefore I have a second recip table on most of my submits, gathered from known serious WMs from this board. Not because they send a lot of traffic, but because I like to spread the love around and (selfishly) hoping for some in return. If everybody who submits to my LLs really studied their server stats they'd probably drop me instantly.

The only reply that matters: The one you get from the guy in the mirror. How much is your time worth? Seriously, once the recip table is built it takes a grand total of 30 seconds to duplicate a site. Just make sure everyone on subsequent tables are serious because even 30 seconds is a waste of time if it's spent on a dickhead.

Excellent post Lemmy. Well said.

[Licker4U]

Good post Lemmy. Something to think about.

Since Oct. 06 I've been making a site with 9 mirrors, each with 9 recips, almost daily. Since then a few link lists have been dropped so I'm submitting to 85-86 lists. I can get all 10 sites submitted in a little over an hour so the time isn't the issue. I'm burning up a lot of bandwidth with 7-8 of the recip groups not providing any sales. You get to a point where the more you do the more it costs with no return. (the law of diminishing returns) I guess I need to make a couple of recip tables with some link lists from the board here (to spread the love around as you did) and see if the Karma comes back to me.

[virgohippy]

I like your replay too Lemmy.

Although, you do make me question my own hippy-free-love-ness because my reasons for submitting to smaller lists aren't quite as altruistic.

[Lemmy]

Man, I think I may have started a new trend; can y'all feel the love in this thread? I mean can ya feel it? We're literally drowning in good Karma here!

Hey, hipster dude, what can I say, I was actally alive during the sixties. Although I must admit that the loving returns I am hoping for with my karmic approach is not only brownie points in Nirvana, but quality submits for my LL. God knows I need them, Eric and Sven have gone off the hinges and are registering spam domains faster then I can ban them!

I guess if I have a point it's this: if we work hard, play nice and try not to be assholes we shall all stay one step ahead of the poverty line with spare change left over for mind-altering drugs.

Peace out!

[bluemoney]

Originally Posted by ponygirl

very well said Lemmy, that's it in a nutshell

Yeah, I'm with sexy on what he said

[docholly]

Originally Posted by Licker4U

I'm burning up a lot of bandwidth with 7-8 of the recip groups not providing any sales. You get to a point where the more you do the more it costs with no return. (the law of diminishing returns) I guess I need to make a couple of recip tables with some link lists from the board here (to spread the love around as you did) and see if the Karma comes back to me.

Unless you have them all on 1 mirror site, I don't see how you can be burning bandwidth other than just what you'd normally burn in submitting a site itself. Text receipts burn NO bandwidth. or such tiny tiny bandwidth that it wouldn't be a blip on your stats.

... and not to belabor a point but in his weekly OTB sessions, no matter what topic MML has picked out, the talk always turns to traffic and there have been some really good pointers and since MML is the reviewer for at least 3 of the Mega link lists, I'd think that every newbie webmaster (and if you haven't been in the game for at least 2 years you are still a newbie) should make a point to attend. If you are serious about being and staying in this biz, then think of it as the weekly office meeting you are required to be at..only with the Banana Phone as your soundtrack.

As submitters (and i'm one.. tho a lazy one) we tend to think that LL owners are just waiting for our wonderful sites to be in their admins, when in fact most of them, while happy to get quality, can fill the gaps in their lists with HFS, that assure them of not only good sites for their bookmarkers but also sales for them. So I, for one, am always happy to get those acceptance emails no matter how small the list I submit to.

that was my 10 cents since I'd couldn't find 2.

[Licker4U]

Originally Posted by docholly

Unless you have them all on 1 mirror site, I don't see how you can be burning bandwidth other than just what you'd normally burn in submitting a site itself.

How can you say I'm not burning bandwidth? Let's say I have a four page site that has a size of 1MB. Each mirror is 12 KB. (Not much indeed) Each mirror only adds 12 KB to my storage allotment but every time a surfer views a banner or image they're consuming my data transfer allotment, which is "burning bandwidth". I'm not concerned with data storage as much as data transfer. So yes, I'm burning bandwidth. Are we talking about two different things?

[Maj. Stress]

Licker,
If you are burning bw on your mirror you must be getting traffic.

I agree with docholly about On The Bench. I've relearned things I have forgotten a long time ago just by listening in.

[Licker4U]

Originally Posted by Maj. Stress

Licker,
If you are burning bw on your mirror you must be getting traffic.

I know I'm getting traffic, that's not the issue. I'm using up BW and not getting anything for it.

I looked today for a notice about OTB but didn't see anything.

[JustRobert]

Jumping on the bandwagon

Very nice post Lemmy and so very true about just one table, though ocassionally I go three in hopes of feeling more love

[Jel]

People name their mirrors differently and use the 2nd/3rd set of recips to target the 2nd/3rd site title (search phrase) right?

[Maj. Stress]

Originally Posted by Licker4U

I know I'm getting traffic, that's not the issue. I'm using up BW and not getting anything for it.

I looked today for a notice about OTB but didn't see anything.

OTB is on Saturday afternoons. I have a tough time remembering the time myself since it's one hour off from my time zone but most of the time I make it.

Now about the traffic to your mirrored sites. How are you working it? Do you have a hub(s) in place where you can get more aggressive and offer more choices? You can link up more than a few hubs and filter even more. I was taught a long time ago to offer choices and lots of em and work em through your network until they either move on or hit on something they like. And don't be afraid to spend a few more bucks for extra bw. The best move I made in this biz was getting a dedicated server with a good amount of bw and letting the traffic flow. It does pay off if you try.