Interesting Sponsor change - no skimming

[Linkster]

Noted a change to a sponsors TOS today in their newsletter - from ATKcash - they will no longer allow their content (galleries) to be used on traffic that has a skim set on it
Interesting change - and I suppose legally a different way of looking at things

[tickler]

?????
Weird |twinkle

[Linkster]

Well - its kinda unusual situation because in reality it is their right to say that if you are going to use their thumbs on your tgp - the link on that thumb should go to their program or a site advertising their program - I think if you look at most sponsors they have that type of wording in their TOS for the use of their free content.
Some programs do enforce this which is their choice since it is their copyrighted work - I remember a conversation where some people thought that it was out of bounds for a sponsor to have that requirement but legally they are well within their rights - and even if you make money with them they can legally not pay you

This would even extend to hosted galleries since you would be using their content but if you skim you are not always sending the surfer to that specific program

Im sure there is going to be the outcry that this is stupid from some WMs - there was last time - but its really up to the sponsor to make those decisions

[SirMoby]

It will be interesting to see what happens if the sponsor refuses to pay a webmaster becasue they were skimming some traffic.

[GeorgeTH]

I actually wrote back to them, because I found the email a little vague in details. From what I understood you're not allowed to use the free content on your TGP if you're skimming the traffic (they even elaborated on how to change trade script settings, etc.) - but on the other hand they expressed it so general that it would ban anybody from submitting to Thumbnailed TGPs - would they really want that?

- - - 15 hours later and I'm still waiting for a reply - - -

[Fonz]

About a year ago another program owner started a rant about a webmaster that used his thumbnails on a skimming TGP and when he clicked it he got onto a site that installed spyware and stuff like that so I can see their point...

What was the guy's name again?? Tron or something like that...

[Greenguy]

Originally Posted by Fonz

...What was the guy's name again?? Tron or something like that...

That was Tom from Tom's World

[Linkster]

George - thats exactly the way that I read it and it is the exact same discussion we had here a while back - Im really surprised there arent more sponsors doing that with the legal advice most of them got about 2257

[Ramster]

Very odd that they would do that since I bet they get a lot of sales from sites using skim and hosted galleries. Some of those types of sites generate a lot of money.

[SirMoby]

Originally Posted by Ramster

Very odd that they would do that since I bet they get a lot of sales from sites using skim and hosted galleries. Some of those types of sites generate a lot of money.

It may be a case of the sponsor not really understanding the traffic sources. A lot of adult sites are starting to bring people from mainsteam that while possibly talented in certain areas do not understand the adult traffic sources.

[Linkster]

Here's the exact wording from their TOS:

G. NO SKIMMING of traffic from ATKINGDOM's copyrighted content. This includes thumbnails and banners made from, or that include, material owned or licensed to ATKINGDOM. Thumbnail Gallery Posts (TGPs) must either include ATKINGDOM's content in an exception list or set the skim percentage to ZERO. Failure to comply with this rule will result in immediate suspension (with notification) of the Affiliate's account. Repeated violations will result in termination of the Affiliate's account and forfeiture of all monies accrued.

It seems to me that they not only understand traffic sources in the adult biz but they are very specific to what exactly you can and can't do - no question in my mind anyway

[SirMoby]

Originally Posted by Linkster

Here's the exact wording from their TOS:

G. NO SKIMMING of traffic from ATKINGDOM's copyrighted content. This includes thumbnails and banners made from, or that include, material owned or licensed to ATKINGDOM. Thumbnail Gallery Posts (TGPs) must either include ATKINGDOM's content in an exception list or set the skim percentage to ZERO. Failure to comply with this rule will result in immediate suspension (with notification) of the Affiliate's account. Repeated violations will result in termination of the Affiliate's account and forfeiture of all monies accrued.

It seems to me that they not only understand traffic sources in the adult biz but they are very specific to what exactly you can and can't do - no question in my mind anyway

As usualy Linkster, you seem to be correct. I guess they're making so much money that they simply don't desire the revenue stream generated by such methods.

[Toby]

It will be interesting to see if they aggressively enforce this across the board or if they use it to selectively as a tool to get rid of some really bad apples.

[mist]

Well, they purchase exclusive content and I can understand that they don’t want others to use that content to make money/traffic for themselves, instead of ATK. But on the other hand they will lose some affiliates instead, but it seems that this is their plan, to don’t get over saturated.

[GeorgeTH]

Originally Posted by mist

Well, they purchase exclusive content and I can understand that they don’t want others to use that content to make money/traffic for themselves, instead of ATK. But on the other hand they will lose some affiliates instead, but it seems that this is their plan, to don’t get over saturated.

ATK had been in the business without any affiliate program for at least 3 or 4 years - I remember asking them several times IF they had one, and always received a negative reply until sometime in 2001. Somehow they generate a good chunk of their own traffic w/o reliance on affiliates...

In the meantime I have received a reply from Chris @ ATK:

Regarding the thumbnail skimming issue and 3rd party TGPs, this question was asked on GFY yesterday as well. I responded as such:

This same question was asked to me in a private email by another affiliate before I sent out this message to ATKCash affiliates. Following, quoted, is how he asked, and how I replied.
"So will you be including in the policy that TGP postings are not allowed? Reason I ask is that I don't see any other way around it as nearly 100% of the TGPs skim therefore ATK copyrighted images will be skimmed upon and at no control by the affiliate submitting and set by the TGP owners.

The way I see this is that while we can't control what submitted-to TGPs do with our thumbs, we can certainly control what our affiliates do with them. To prohibit ATKCash affiliates from submitting to all TGPs is out of the question, and the way I intend to pursue the issue is as they arise. When I find a TGP that's skimming our thumbs, I'll check to see if they're an ATKCash affiliate.
If they are, it's easy as I can reiterate our policy and suspend them until they comply if it comes to that. If they're not our affiliates, I can always learn which affiliates are submitting to them and approach them about no longer submitting there IF the submitted-to TGP is unwilling or unable to respect our request that any ATK galleries be added to an exception list."

Hope this answers your question.

With my site [picXS.com] this will mean for the future that I'll strongly enforce my own rule "I don't post ATK content" to protect my own income - and to comply with the new rules...

[Toby]

As a TGP owner that is not an ATK affiliate, my reply to such a request to add any specific sponsor to an "exception list" would include more than a few choice words, followed by an addition to my banned sponsor list.

[Mr. Blue]

Gee, glad I'm not an ATK Affiliate, I would have had to be pulling their FHG tonight if I were.

It's their right to do whatever they want to with their program. As an affiliate you have the right to drop them...and so it goes There's so many sponsors out there if you don't like what one is doing you drop them...just that simple.

[GeorgeTH]

Originally Posted by Mr. Blue

Gee, glad I'm not an ATK Affiliate, I would have had to be pulling their FHG tonight if I were.

Actually: for a long time already their hosted galleries are going 404 as soon as their site detects any link syntax other than the direct link - so if there's a trade script section in your link the surfer won't get the gallery - main page instead.