Tough times in the porn industry

[cd34]

"We always said that once the Internet took off, we'd be OK," he added. "It never crossed our minds that we'd be competing with people who just give it away for free."

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-f...386,full.story

[Cleo]

If this morning wasn't already depressing enough.

At least five of the 100 top websites in the U.S. are portals for free pornography, referred to in the industry as "tube sites," according to Internet traffic ranking service Alexa .com. Some of their content is amateur work uploaded by users and some is acquired from cheap back catalogs, but much of it is pirated.

[Preacher]

A real sign of the end of times...

Adult entertainment actress Savannah Stern, whose income has dropped because of the rapid decline in job opportunities in the porn business, is replacing her Mercedes-Benz(Mercedes-Benz CLK 350) with a used car from her parents.

[bluechicken]

Originally Posted by Preacher

A real sign of the end of times...

HAHHA! that one cracked me up.
now seriously, I have personally make more money on mainstream (none porn) then with porn.
I didn't quit anything with the porn sites, just added more mainstream ones and invested more time and money in them (because they made me more money in less effort).
I recommend all of you to do the same, slowly gradually find internet mainstream products, it's time to move on, you are not "giving a fight", you are moving from a sinking ship to a more float able.
one day you'll have to move again.
it's not that big of a deal I think. think of me what you will. i'm here for the money and don't you forget it.

[LB]

Originally Posted by bluechicken

HAHHA! that one cracked me up.
now seriously, I have personally make more money on mainstream (none porn) then with porn.
I didn't quit anything with the porn sites, just added more mainstream ones and invested more time and money in them (because they made me more money in less effort).
I recommend all of you to do the same, slowly gradually find internet mainstream products, it's time to move on, you are not "giving a fight", you are moving from a sinking ship to a more float able.
one day you'll have to move again.
it's not that big of a deal I think. think of me what you will. i'm here for the money and don't you forget it.

I am hearing that more and more... porn ratios are not going well but mainstream continues to return some excellent dollars.

I have some mainstream sites, they do ok, but I am looking to give mainstream a decent push.

Adult is the victim of a pretty shitty economy at the moment, and personally for the 2 paysite programs I run I am convinced its a lot to do with declines (declines are 400-500% up!) .. I can't even get one of my 5-6 cc's approved for many products.

There is money in adult, hell a good living if you are doing the right things, but things are far from rosy. Funny thing is now my tube sites are making more and more profit monthly than my traditional sites .. strange

[Head Boy]

Yep - we're moving into interesting times. The saddest part is that so many people are turning to cheating, and that reduces the market even further. The last thing we want now are cross-sales and trojan installations.

[Ramster]

Things are not looking great that is for sure. But I think it will end up okay for us all, afterall even those giving it away for free need to make money.

[LD]

"Why would anyone pay for porn?" is a question I see a lot these days other non-porn boards. People just expect free porn and think memberships are stupid.

[tickler]

Originally Posted by LusciousDelight

"Why would anyone pay for porn?" is a question I see a lot these days other non-porn boards. People just expect free porn and think memberships are stupid.

They just don't seem to understand the concept that making stuff cost $$$s. If people aren't making money, they aren't going to spend money making it.

That applies not only to porn, but also mainstream.

Will Hollywood keep spending million$ making movies if everybody just downloads it for free from the thiefs.

[hashbury]

This is not the end of times, this is the time for the idea guys to come up with new and more profitable ideas. We need to offer stuff the tubes cant give away for free. If we can make it through these tough times, we will only be stronger when the market turns around. The illegal tube sites will eventually kill themselves by either not being able to pay their huge hosting bills or by companys persuing legal action. Atleast thats what im hoping.

[Cleo]

I was at the gym yesterday and two different people that I know there came up to me asking how business is lately. The first one is a guy that runs HIV gay cruises and he was telling me how bad business is due to credit card declines. The second person is a woman who runs a well known mainstream book and magazine store that is located in walking distance of our downtown and a major hospital that told me the same thing about credit card declines.

While I'm sure tube sites and other sources of free porn hurt sales I believe the major reason that sales are so bad is we are in a major recession and credit has dried up along with very restrictive scrubbing by the credit card companies.

When times are good expensive bottled water sells well despite water being freely available.

[walrus]

Originally Posted by Cleo

While I'm sure tube sites and other sources of free porn hurt sales I believe the major reason that sales are so bad is we are in a major recession and credit has dried up along with very restrictive scrubbing by the credit card companies.

When times are good expensive bottled water sells well despite water being freely available.

I agree the recession has had a major impact. I personally think the recession is helping in driving people to the tube sites.

Those people will leave the tubes once the economy picks up.

It might be free porn but the quality is horrible. People will return so that they can actually watch video's full screen rather than pixelated crap at 400x300

[virgohippy]

Originally Posted by walrus

It might be free porn but the quality is horrible. People will return so that they can actually watch video's full screen rather than pixelated crap at 400x300

Especially considering high definition screens are reasonably affordable and will become even more so over time and consumers are already demanding quality products which display well on their HD screens.

[LD]

Originally Posted by virgohippy

Especially considering high definition screens are reasonably affordable and will become even more so over time and consumers are already demanding quality products which display well on their HD screens.

All true, but will people pay for quality? When mp3's became popular, no one cared they sounded like crap compared to CD's...people downloaded them, illegally, and quit buying CD's because CD's cost money and mp3's were free.

And what's to stop illegal tubes from upgrading their quality? Hollywood has the right idea..it's fucking HARD (at least for me) to make a copy of HD movies. Even my DVR charges me $5.99 everytime I want to watch a PPV. Does porn have a similar digital license encoded in the content yet? If not, it should...

[walrus]

Originally Posted by LusciousDelight

All true, but will people pay for quality? When mp3's became popular, no one cared they sounded like crap compared to CD's...people downloaded them, illegally, and quit buying CD's because CD's cost money and mp3's were free.

Actually, that might not be a good example. People were still buying CD's until the music industry went after the pirates. CD sales nose dived shortly after Napster was shut down.

And quality sound has really never been the primary force in peoples buying habits when it comes to music. The 8 track tape was a much better sounding medium but cassettes sounded ok and were cheaper and more robust.

CD's may be a higher quality, ie. higher bit rate but I'd bet the average person couldn't distinguish the difference in a blind side by side test.

The CD is now basically dead for the same reason as every other format in the music industry died. Something acceptable came along that was more convenient.

Carrying an iPod is much easier than carrying a CD player especially when you can carry your complete library of music on it.

[NY Jester]

Originally Posted by Cleo

I

While I'm sure tube sites and other sources of free porn hurt sales I believe the major reason that sales are so bad is we are in a major recession and credit has dried up along with very restrictive scrubbing by the credit card companies.

This is the case and I'll give a personal experiences. My uncle who has a 700+ credit score, had his main credit card account closed by the creditor after 12 years because he got up to over 50% balance to credit line.

Also Ive noticed that the we are getting calls from anyone doing services (propane, wireless phone, home phone) within 2 or 3 of receiving the bill and at least 2 weeks before the bill is due..as "reminders" of when the bill is due. Its tough all over, not just porn.

and I do love the analogy Cleo about water and porn, very good twist.

[Rochard]

Originally Posted by Cleo

I was at the gym yesterday and two different people that I know there came up to me asking how business is lately. The first one is a guy that runs HIV gay cruises and he was telling me how bad business is due to credit card declines. The second person is a woman who runs a well known mainstream book and magazine store that is located in walking distance of our downtown and a major hospital that told me the same thing about credit card declines.

While I'm sure tube sites and other sources of free porn hurt sales I believe the major reason that sales are so bad is we are in a major recession and credit has dried up along with very restrictive scrubbing by the credit card companies.

When times are good expensive bottled water sells well despite water being freely available.

Finally someone has seen the light.

There has ALWAYS been free porn on the Internet. Since day one. The problem is we are in the biggest recession we've seen in our lifetimes. Sales are down EVERYWHERE.

Vivid says "sales are down 20%". Well, they are lucky. The local Wendy's up the street from my house closed down. A nearby gas station also closed down. One out of four houses on my street (five out of twenty houses) are empty because they lost their jobs and couldn't pay their mortgage. Discretionary cash is at a minimum; People are afraid to spend because they are afraid they might be next to loose their job.

Do tube sites hurt us? They sure do. But they aren't killing us. Our industry is seeing what all industries are seeing.

[Jeremy]

Originally Posted by Rochard

Finally someone has seen the light.

There has ALWAYS been free porn on the Internet. Since day one. The problem is we are in the biggest recession we've seen in our lifetimes. Sales are down EVERYWHERE.
[...]

I pretty much agree with you that credit card issues / discretionary spending are where the main problems are at the moment. That and summer. I'm still seeing similar levels of clicks to sponsors but drastically fewer sign-ups. (I even saw a sponsor posting to see if any other program's ratios had suddenly doubled recently - that was refreshing honesty!)

People still click links and go through the tours but I'm guessing either their CC won't work, or they don't have the money for a subscription at the moment, or they'll only spend on something that's really special to them and, unfortunately, I just don't have the right sponsors to meet that need at the moment.

I wouldn't exclude tube sites as being part of a problem though - if you run (or ran) a tgp or mgp then tubes have pretty much just nicked half your traffic and taken your submit pass revenue with it, as well as the revenue from that traffic. But, I have seen some TGP / MGP people say that although their traffic has dived, revenue has't decreased by the same amount - so maybe the people who flock to tubes really are just lookie-loos who like to wank themselves sore.

The one thing that people always forget is that having "free porn" drastically increases the market size of potential porn purchasers.

[Sodo]

Originally Posted by Cleo

I was at the gym yesterday and two different people that I know there came up to me asking how business is lately. The first one is a guy that runs HIV gay cruises and he was telling me how bad business is due to credit card declines. The second person is a woman who runs a well known mainstream book and magazine store that is located in walking distance of our downtown and a major hospital that told me the same thing about credit card declines.

While I'm sure tube sites and other sources of free porn hurt sales I believe the major reason that sales are so bad is we are in a major recession and credit has dried up along with very restrictive scrubbing by the credit card companies.

When times are good expensive bottled water sells well despite water being freely available.

I have to agree 100% with you, free porn has existed for years, off cause if there were no free porn we would sell more, but the decline in sales and ratios is caused by the financial crisis, people are still being laid off and people are rethinking every decision when it comes to spending money! The buying what you want days are over for now, you'll have to go for what you need....my guess is that dating sites are selling better because there you can get sex for free....especially if you're not too picky!

Kind regards
Sodo

[GonZo]

Originally Posted by Cleo

I was at the gym yesterday and two different people that I know there came up to me asking how business is lately. The first one is a guy that runs HIV gay cruises and he was telling me how bad business is due to credit card declines. The second person is a woman who runs a well known mainstream book and magazine store that is located in walking distance of our downtown and a major hospital that told me the same thing about credit card declines.

While I'm sure tube sites and other sources of free porn hurt sales I believe the major reason that sales are so bad is we are in a major recession and credit has dried up along with very restrictive scrubbing by the credit card companies.

When times are good expensive bottled water sells well despite water being freely available.

Shhh Cleo. Let everyone chase after the tube sites while some of us quietly retool.

[bart666]

Originally Posted by Cleo

When times are good expensive bottled water sells well despite water being freely available.

Back in the 90's, there was no free water, only expensive bottles... It does explain why ratios were higher, doesn't it?

[Head Boy]

Free water in England is now a health risk. Free porn on the tubes is a health risk for your PC. Maybe we can learn from the marketers of mineral water.

[Mike-mijen]

You all are right. I think everyone should quit, except ME. What not a good idea? Ok Ok I will go stand in the corner

[NY Jester]

I read an article that Forbes magazine are looking at some Tube sites to include as the most lucrative money makers.. ouch.

[born2blog]

Originally Posted by NY Jester

I read an article that Forbes magazine are looking at some Tube sites to include as the most lucrative money makers.. ouch.

No surprise there, especially considering the crazy amount of traffic some of the bigger ones get. Times sure are changing faster than ever that's for sure.