Why the sudden change of heart on cross sales?

[Ms Naughty]

So in the space of one day I see Topbucks and Pimproll trying to move away from using cross sales.

What happened? Has there been some kind of mass webmaster revolt on other boards? Or are they reacting to the review sites? Or what? I've been away and out of the loop so I might have missed something.

There was a discussion about pre-checked cross sales here quite a few months ago and it seemed that some people hated them, some didn't care. What's the general view?

[Toby]

It's been a hot topic since earlier this summer. I made my "Mad as Hell..." post here and on 5 other boards back in late July. A few heavy hitters such as Shemp and FreeOnes updated their policies regarding cross sales earlier this Fall.

With the declining economy I think sponsors are looking to regain that traffic and the affiliates that dropped them over the issue.

[Ms Naughty]

Ah OK. Thanks Toby.

I'll be interested to see what this will do to bottom lines and signup rates, if anything.

[Ramster]

As Toby said Freeones added marks next to all links (including hosted galleries) that had xsells. If other sites do it too they could lose traffic. Maybe those using xsells excessively are running into chargeback issues too going above the 1% visa allotment.

[NY Jester]

The stink that was made along with the fact that chargebacks are never a good thing Im sure have aided the cause. Whatever the reasoning I think it can only get better.

[bDok]

The choice is good. Put it in the affiliates hands to choose.

[LD]

Anyone know if existing aff codes will allow for Xsales? If not, I think it might be worth going back and changing them...what do you guys think?

[LeRoy]

Some guy from the the bar(my part time) signed up to a fuck you cash site. He told me his CC was charged a few times for things he wasnt even into niche wise.

Program owners are making good $$ ie 100.00 payouts and free vacations.

On the other hand. Everyone claims these surfers a soooo savvy. Why dont they know to uncheck that box?

Or know by clicking "Upgrade" that means "UPGRADE"!

[Jeremy]

Originally Posted by grandmascrotum

So in the space of one day I see Topbucks and Pimproll trying to move away from using cross sales.

Welllll, they're not really. Just that if you want to send a surfer to a non-cross-sell page, you can grab a link code for it now. (I think TB were conducting a survey). I'd guess the default codes would probably remain console + cross for the foreseeable.

Maybe "webmaster power" had some effect, but likely as not it probably comes down to there now being a seam of non-cross traffic to be profitably mined.

[becky]

ARS tried the option of sending to a xsell free join page a couple of years ago, and less than 1% of affiliates used it. Of course, this was back when the unscrupulous methods were being used and one xsell was the only one available, and it was disclosed. It might work better with today's affiliates.

I am working on a xsell billing mystery myself, and I know how not to get billed in this industry. But when these methods are undisclosed to the member, and you get billed for canceling and other bullshit like that, there is no way to know until you get your statement. It's getting very ridiculous, and I believe we are going to suffer for it at some point.

[faxxaff]

Xsales are a fine thing as long as the surfer can see them CLEARLY and gets a clar cut summary of all costs before he makes the final click! I got aware of some really unethical Xsales by Toby's posts a few weeks back. Thank you Toby for posting this. It was one of the most valuable posts on any webmaster board in the past years for me.

I see the need of protecting consumers. Put the Xsales over the submit buttom and let the surfer check the boxes if he decides to try the other sites. I would think it is more than fair to provide the surfer info about the sites they are about to trial and how to cancel them BEFORE they join. Since some of the people engaging in this practice are running various different programs, they could provide this info without disguising it .... (if they wanted)

Since I do not promote PPS, but revshare, I am kinda sick of getting emails like ...."you made 0.99 cents on this sale" then the guys cancels and get's hit up for 200 bucks or more from other sources .... and I am left with 99 Cents. Not that I want to benefit from any scams, but I certainly don't want to be left out of an transaction if a surfer decides to try a few other sites ...

Now, I have contacted a few programs about those freaky Xsales and I have dropped most of them. The only person actively responding to me and changing directions was Glenn from Incredible Dollars. I$ took off the prechecked Xsales from revshare links and pays revshare on their own links and a 40$ premium if a surfer decides to check links by themselves.

I sent an email to Nick from Deecash regarding the same issue, but never received any reply, so no more new links for me to Deecash programs. It's their own fault. They promise, but they don't follow up. No reply from Tranny Pay, Cumfu and others as well ...

[becky]

Sometimes it is better to do your own research on xsell practices rather than take a program's word for it. Look in their TOS, check their cancellation pages, and most of all, do a test with your own CC. I've found issues with programs I thought would never do the things they are with xsells. It reminds me of the blind credit card charges that used to plague this industry 10 years ago. Now they just use xsells to do the same thing.

Bottom line, be wary of where you send your customers. If you send them to the wrong sponsor, they will have $100 charged to their CC in the first month and definitely won't be coming back to buy more.

[Toby]

Originally Posted by becky

...and most of all, do a test with your own CC.

Not something I would recommend. You can usually find most of this out doing some online research.

[becky]

Originally Posted by Toby

Not something I would recommend. You can usually find most of this out doing some online research.

Why not? What other way do you have to find blind xsells and blind cancel xsells? Customers aren't the only people who can chargeback if you can't get it resolved with the program owner

[Toby]

Originally Posted by becky

Why not?

I have better things to do with my time than getting unauthorized charges removed from my credit card.

[Useless]

Let's get this straight - it's CROSS SALES, not SELLS. Sells is the simple present tense of the verb sell, as in, "he sells crack." I cannot currently think of any situation in which sell could become a noun. We do not make sells; we make sales.

The Norman conquest served to enrich the English language, but the onslaught of business and academia threatens to diminish our language to the point where only vulgarities will have any fucking meaning.
-anonymous

Also, using your own credit card and doing test joins is a wonderful way to be accused of fraud. There are far too many sponsors out there for me to waste time and money testing those who may not be honest about their business practices.

Joins, by the way, depending on its use, can be a verb or a noun. Neat, huh?

[becky]

Since you don't have the time or inclination to test them out, you should just stay away from programs with xsells then. Affiliates who turn a blind eye for the large payouts only perpetuate the problem. And I'm not saying you are doing so, but there are a lot of affiliates that do.

Oh and thanks for the correction on my use of the term XSELLS. I wish this was the biggest problem we have with them

[Toby]

Originally Posted by becky

Since you don't have the time or inclination to test them out...

As I noted above, a little online research on wm boards and via Google will usually shine a light on the shady players. Test joins are just a bit excessive, with too many additional consequences.

FWIW, I don't promote any sponsors that have pre-checked cross sales. This has been my personal policy long before it became a hot topic on the boards.

[becky]

Originally Posted by Toby

As I noted above, a little online research on wm boards and via Google will usually shine a light on the shady players. Test joins are just a bit excessive, with too many additional consequences.

That's not always the case. Someone mentioned a program in this thread that I have been doing business with myself. I decided to test their methods and was blindly billed myself. And I know all the tricks. It just shows you can't always trust what you are reading.

[Useless]

Originally Posted by becky

Since you don't have the time or inclination to test them out, you should just stay away from programs with xsells then.

I typically do.

Originally Posted by becky

Affiliates who turn a blind eye for the large payouts only perpetuate the problem. And I'm not saying you are doing so, but there are a lot of affiliates that do.

Well, being that the majority of the sponsors I tend to promote are CCBill-only revshare programs and not major PPS sponsors, I don't usually feel the need to worry about such nonsense. I don't like promoting sponsors whose sites are so poor that they need to make $100 worth of cross-sales on the join page because they know that the customer will not rebill.

Originally Posted by becky

Oh and thanks for the correction on my use of the term XSELLS. I wish this was the biggest problem we have with them

Thank you for learning from your mistakes and not reacting like an impudent child who doesn't care how ignorant she looks.

[becky]

Well since you guys don't use sites with xsells, you should definitely check out my new program HD Pays. No deceptive billing, no consoles, just honest paysite memberships I'm glad I decided to sponsor this board because of the honest and smart affiliates that post here!! Hopefully we can do some business together.

Btw, the term xsells is just how they are referred to and really doesn't reflect on my level of intelligence

[xxxjay]

Xsales have been around forever. Now they are just a buzz-word on the boards. If you don't want xsales then you can't ask for PPS at the same time (or not the a high one). It used to be programs just shaved you and xsaled to make a high PPS.

If you are that concerned about "ethics" and not your paycheck, you can always use our Vanilla program. It is xsale free.

[Useless]

Originally Posted by becky

Btw, the term xsells is just how they are referred to and really doesn't reflect on my level of intelligence

George Bush refers to the word "nuclear" as "nucular." Other people, knowing that that pronunciation is incorrect, don't employ it themselves because it would make them sound stupid.

[becky]

Originally Posted by Useless Warrior

George Bush refers to the word "nuclear" as "nucular." Other people, knowing that that pronunciation is incorrect, don't employ it themselves because it would make them sound stupid.

Did you also fight the words google or xerox becoming a verb? FFS post something constructive or don't post at all. Xsells or xsales has no bearing on the topic.