Internext/AEE passes anyone :) - AVN SUCKS!!!!!

[Linkster]

Originally Posted by MrMaryLou

Ok I am a sissy LOL I was too busy with boob hats

Nahh - just the smarter one out of all of us

[Ramster]

Originally Posted by docholly

CES Rates at Harrahs

SOLD OUT

[Useless]

Originally Posted by Far-L

Ok so far - in my mind, tell me if I am offbase - the landscape of this discussion lays out like this:

1. Cheaper prices, food, booths, rooms, etc.

2. Better communication with coordinators

3. Location

4. Proximity to other events

5. Access to sponsor events

6. seminars, roundtables, etc.

Let's not forget the timing of the event. It's a timing/location issue more than location or timing individually.

I don't wear many hats - I'm not a hat guy. (I think baseball caps should be reserved for baseball players and don't even get me started on the U.S. army's decision to give all soldiers black berets.) Anyway, I'm a lowly webmaster, perhaps lowlier than most. I've been doing this thing off and on for 3+ years and I still have not been inspired enough to lay down any amount of cash to go to one of these things.

From what I read, webmasters would receive the best results if AVN held Internext at any big Holiday Inn near a bunch of bars in the middle of nowhere. I understand why people are attracted to Vegas, but it does nothing for me. I don't gamble, I can't afford hookers and if I wanted to see flashing lights, I'd dial 911. Give me a clean bed that's within walking distance of where ever other folks are hanging out, and I'm good.

[Far-L]

Originally Posted by Linkster

Two great points GG - although on that first one keep in mind that when we were working the booth the only one that didnt have a hangover was MML

The hierarchy question is a great one - it was one of the points brought up right before the last Miami show as well due to the standard rate for everyone affecting the ability of sponsors bringing in "talent" - I believe that Aly tried to intercede with AVN on that question however I have no idea what ever happened - if I remember correctly some arrangement was made for the local hires to get in cheaper for specific hours during the day - remember you had to have a badge to get into the hotel for that show.

If AVN does "negotiate" rates for people that would greatly disappoint me as that would be a slap in the face to those webmasters that cant afford to go to their convention.

There is not a hierarchy - everyone is treated equally when it comes to right down to it - we had to do a booth and run special seminars on our tab to make it worthwhile for all. My point was simply that they were willing to work with us and went beyond just trying to line their own pockets with cash.

[Greenguy]

Originally Posted by Far-L

There is not a hierarchy - everyone is treated equally when it comes to right down to it - we had to do a booth and run special seminars on our tab to make it worthwhile for all. My point was simply that they were willing to work with us and went beyond just trying to line their own pockets with cash.

But based on that statement, they did line their pockets with YOUR cash so that others could attend an affordable convention.

Sure, everyone's happy, but in the end, you paid the difference.

[Far-L]

Originally Posted by Greenguy

But based on that statement, they did line their pockets with YOUR cash so that others could attend an affordable convention.

Sure, everyone's happy, but in the end, you paid the difference.

Nope, not with our cash either except for the booth which we tend to do anyway so that was no big deal.

The other money we raised to have a roundtable and they didn't see a dime of that - yet they did give us massive exposure including full page ads in the show guide - which means they were the ones putting out the money. So if you ask me that is proof positive that they are not all about the money.

[RawAlex]

Okay, here's my take... and I have seen both sides of the story:

Sponsors seem to forget that show attendance is what they are buying. The chance to meet webmasters that you might not otherwise reach, and get them to send traffic / trade traffic / exit links / do whatever business it is that you do. Without attendance, things really suck.

Without the RIGHT attendance, thing really suck. The last year I helped Fay run Adultdex, the attendance in Vegas wasn't very high, but we had a good group of people and business got done. It happened because we could offer a hotel at a decent price, and even with the last comdex running, vegas wasn't that expensive overall and not that crowded.

If you are going to do a big show, you need to get the biggest attendance, you have to make it worth the effort for people from all over the world to make the trip. AVN has proven conclusively that not enough people really want to go to sweaty Florida in August, and now they are starting to see that not as many people want to fight the crowds and spend the major bling to wrestle a hotel room away from a CES attendee.

Until the "winter" show moves from January, you cannot look at fixing the date of the "summer" show. Nobody wants to do two shows in a couple of months, not enough of the "general webmaster crowd" has the cashish to pay for a major hotel and airfare back to back (especially with the long reserve ahead times that these shows are starting to require). If you move the winter show to March (example) then you could easily move the "summer" show to the fall, say, first week of October? I think plenty of the northern types would be more than happy to shuffle off to florida (or similar sunny climes) for a show in October, and Vegas is a much more enjoyable place in March compared to January... airfares are cheap, hotels are plentiful, and no major holiday period is infringed on (don't do it at easter, that's all).

Back to the point. If AVN doesn't work their shows to bring people in the door, then the companies paying for the booths, the sponsorships, and the attention at the shows won't be seen, and the value of that booth or sponsorship drops in their mind. As companies shy away from having that booth, the show floor continues to drop. As the show floor drops, the value of the show badge drops, and AVN's income fades.

Fix the problem of how hard (and expensive) it is to attend the show, and the rest follows in line.

Alex

[Far-L]

Originally Posted by RawAlex

Okay, here's my take... and I have seen both sides of the story:

Sponsors seem to forget that show attendance is what they are buying. The chance to meet webmasters that you might not otherwise reach, and get them to send traffic / trade traffic / exit links / do whatever business it is that you do. Without attendance, things really suck.

Without the RIGHT attendance, thing really suck. The last year I helped Fay run Adultdex, the attendance in Vegas wasn't very high, but we had a good group of people and business got done. It happened because we could offer a hotel at a decent price, and even with the last comdex running, vegas wasn't that expensive overall and not that crowded.

If you are going to do a big show, you need to get the biggest attendance, you have to make it worth the effort for people from all over the world to make the trip. AVN has proven conclusively that not enough people really want to go to sweaty Florida in August, and now they are starting to see that not as many people want to fight the crowds and spend the major bling to wrestle a hotel room away from a CES attendee.

Until the "winter" show moves from January, you cannot look at fixing the date of the "summer" show. Nobody wants to do two shows in a couple of months, not enough of the "general webmaster crowd" has the cashish to pay for a major hotel and airfare back to back (especially with the long reserve ahead times that these shows are starting to require). If you move the winter show to March (example) then you could easily move the "summer" show to the fall, say, first week of October? I think plenty of the northern types would be more than happy to shuffle off to florida (or similar sunny climes) for a show in October, and Vegas is a much more enjoyable place in March compared to January... airfares are cheap, hotels are plentiful, and no major holiday period is infringed on (don't do it at easter, that's all).

Back to the point. If AVN doesn't work their shows to bring people in the door, then the companies paying for the booths, the sponsorships, and the attention at the shows won't be seen, and the value of that booth or sponsorship drops in their mind. As companies shy away from having that booth, the show floor continues to drop. As the show floor drops, the value of the show badge drops, and AVN's income fades.

Fix the problem of how hard (and expensive) it is to attend the show, and the rest follows in line.

Alex

Thanks for the great input!

[Far-L]

More suggestions for locations and optimal months please - figuring that the shows need to be six months apart with a winter and summer event ideally...

[furrygirl]

Originally Posted by Far-L

More suggestions for locations and optimal months please - figuring that the shows need to be six months apart with a winter and summer event ideally...

How about having the non-Vegas one anywhere but a humid tropical location in the hottest part of summer?

And: is Homegrown Video planning to offer discount amateur passes this year?

[MeatPounder]

Non Vegas one in Buffalo?

[Far-L]

Originally Posted by MeatPounder

Non Vegas one in Buffalo?

Umm... I have been to Buffalo - it is freezing fricking cold in the winter and almost as humid as Florida in the summer... lol, but I will add it to the list...

[Far-L]

Originally Posted by furrygirl

How about having the non-Vegas one anywhere but a humid tropical location in the hottest part of summer?

And: is Homegrown Video planning to offer discount amateur passes this year?

We were planning on it.

Are you still in Seattle? I think it is a goshdurn travesty that we haven't gotten together yet up here.

Drop me a email and let's do lunch or something soon if you are in town still.

[SirMoby]

Originally Posted by furrygirl

How about having the non-Vegas one anywhere but a humid tropical location in the hottest part of summer?

And: is Homegrown Video planning to offer discount amateur passes this year?

I think the last Phoenix Forum was larger then the Florida show and there ain't no humidity in AZ.

[emmanuelle]

I attended my first internext before I even launched my first website. We slept 6 to a room, paid for and attended the seminars, and fed ourselves at the free lunch buffet on the show floor. I was there to learn, and giddy with the excitement surrounding me. I was astounded by the 500 squarefoot bar in the middle of the room, as well as the number of people willing to help a newb get off the ground. Every one of those people is remembered & appreciated, some are still good friends today.


I met great people who helped me get going, shot content, and was exposed to advertisers while I was very impressionable. I came home with 30 t-shirts, a suitcase full of sponsor's promotional materials to study later, and an incalculable amount of motivation.

My trusty assistant Kassy also attended internext prior to launching her first website. She too scrimped and saved, knowing that the education she would receive over 4 days was invaluable. Neither of us has ever attended a Players Ball, we worked too hard to get there, to waste time partying, when we could be using our time much more wisely.


Nowadays this is impossible. Not only are beginners seemingly unwelcome, but they couldn't possibly manage to pull off such a trip on the cheap. Shows are becoming elite events, staged for a few big players to pat each other on the back, and be adored by the mid level wannabees.
I can't tell you how nauseated I was to hear someone tell me how his girlfriend was looking for a new company to rep, so that she could attend internext with him. That's all I see anymore, company 'reps'. Not hard working entrepreneurs, but those hired to smile pretty and handle damage control.

I'd like to see the shows return to their roots. Companies working hard to get my business, not just paying for boothspace to satisfy AVN's requirements. I'd like to see it made possible for beginners to attend and get the education they so desperately need. I'd like to see "our" show return to being about us, our specific needs, and unifying our industry. Lackluster support of valuable causes (2257, Acacia etc) clearly demonstrate the need for the industry to be brought closer together as one; but that one must include all of us.

[Far-L]

Originally Posted by emmanuelle

I attended my first internext before I even launched my first website. We slept 6 to a room, paid for and attended the seminars, and fed ourselves at the free lunch buffet on the show floor. I was there to learn, and giddy with the excitement surrounding me. I was astounded by the 500 squarefoot bar in the middle of the room, as well as the number of people willing to help a newb get off the ground. Every one of those people is remembered & appreciated, some are still good friends today.


I met great people who helped me get going, shot content, and was exposed to advertisers while I was very impressionable. I came home with 30 t-shirts, a suitcase full of sponsor's promotional materials to study later, and an incalculable amount of motivation.

My trusty assistant Kassy also attended internext prior to launching her first website. She too scrimped and saved, knowing that the education she would receive over 4 days was invaluable. Neither of us has ever attended a Players Ball, we worked too hard to get there, to waste time partying, when we could be using our time much more wisely.


Nowadays this is impossible. Not only are beginners seemingly unwelcome, but they couldn't possibly manage to pull off such a trip on the cheap. Shows are becoming elite events, staged for a few big players to pat each other on the back, and be adored by the mid level wannabees.
I can't tell you how nauseated I was to hear someone tell me how his girlfriend was looking for a new company to rep, so that she could attend internext with him. That's all I see anymore, company 'reps'. Not hard working entrepreneurs, but those hired to smile pretty and handle damage control.

I'd like to see the shows return to their roots. Companies working hard to get my business, not just paying for boothspace to satisfy AVN's requirements. I'd like to see it made possible for beginners to attend and get the education they so desperately need. I'd like to see "our" show return to being about us, our specific needs, and unifying our industry. Lackluster support of valuable causes (2257, Acacia etc) clearly demonstrate the need for the industry to be brought closer together as one; but that one must include all of us.

Wonderfully well spoken, and what my easterner upbringing would refer to as a "protestant" work ethic.

However, most of what you point to as the faults abundant today are not due to AVN/internext but due in my mind to the changes in the profit structure and power dynamic of today's adult internet. The big sponsors of yesteryear are not as opulant as those days of old. True, there is still a power elite, but most of the old kingpins had to completely change their show strategy due to competition for affiliates, number of shows yearly, and declining margins among other things.

Internext is deeply concerned with staying on top of what the industry needs. Tom is not there anymore but anyone who knows him or Renee personally knows that they sincerely want(ed) the show to be a useful resource to attendees at any end of the fiscal strata, a show for richer or poorer. I know Darren and Paul also feel the same way as well.

I disagree that people can't still do it like you, us, and others did it back in the day with room sharing, pass sharing, etc. I know that is still a fact of life for the go-getters but I also know what you are talking about with the show being full of useless reps that all are trying to sell the same thing to each other and no one having a shred of clout to make anything substantial happen except purchasing the next round of drinks at the bar.

I feel there is a great deal of value to having a forum and venue where everyone can come face to face. I also have seen time and time again the so-called noobs that come up to greatness, the great programs that fall in ruins, and everything in between; I feel internext is for better or worse a great bellweather of those trends as well.

There will always be room for improvement, no doubt. If nothing else, all I wish to accomplish here is proving that it is better to work with AVN/internext than work against them. They are not the enemy. They are a resource which is there for us and does want to increase our business. Their business is to increase our business not diminish it.

[furrygirl]

Originally Posted by Far-L

Are you still in Seattle? I think it is a goshdurn travesty that we haven't gotten together yet up here.

Drop me a email and let's do lunch or something soon if you are in town still.

I have a lease until at least July 2006, so still "in town". I'm working on a fair chunk of backlog at the moment with my sites, but we should get together some time in the next couple of weeks.

[Far-L]

Originally Posted by furrygirl

I have a lease until at least July 2006, so still "in town". I'm working on a fair chunk of backlog at the moment with my sites, but we should get together some time in the next couple of weeks.

We are planning a webmaster party up here (any around in the Pacific Northwest is welcome to attend) here in the near future. I will keep you posted.

[Far-L]

No more suggestions folks? We were on quite a roll there with the greivances... I would love more suggestions for times and places and panels that would be more worthy.

[mb]

I heard the Vegas airport HoJo was only $300 a night. That's a steal for a $20 roach motel.

;-)

The funniest thing to do is pull up something like Expedia and watch the rates change for Jan 5-8.

A shithole will be

$39 $39 $39 $39 $450 $450 $450 $39 $39

marc

[RawAlex]

It's actually very VERY likely that I don't go to the show at all this year... I really can't even start to justify almost 3k for 4 days in vegas... I can get a nice week vacation somewhere worth going for that

Alex