Florida's new gun laws

[seven]

Originally Posted by porndragon

The problem isn't to many or not enough guns it is that criminals get the best guns threw illegal channels and citizens don't have the force to stop them just think back threw history ancient times everyone carried spears and swords and for the most part crime was down. When guns are banned only criminals have guns. Think bank robberies would happen if the tellers had guns? Same goes for almost every crime criminals when met with citizen force don't stand a chance. Guns don't kill people people kill people and most in this country would rather not kill but be protected.

When i want to shoot someone i play counter-strike...it's much safer ..now serious I don't think it's a good ideea to give guns to everybody...There are a lot of dumb asses out there and the only thing they need is a gun...

[SirMoby]

I just read what I could find of the bill on Florida's web site. What concerns is that I read nothing about alcohol influence or provoking someone. Basically the new law allows me to start a fight in a bar by calling someone’s mother, wife or girlfriend a whore. If that person comes towards me in a threatening manner like would be a normal response I can shoot them.

The opportunity in this new bill to commit first-degree murder and kill random people is huge. Yelling at the opposing crowd in a sporting event could now get you shot.

While this bill does correct some absurd notions about my right to protect my family it is irresponsible in its support of random violence. A better written bill could be acceptable but this is fucking nuts.

[ArtWilliams]

Originally Posted by SirMoby

I just read what I could find of the bill on Florida's web site. What concerns is that I read nothing about alcohol influence or provoking someone. Basically the new law allows me to start a fight in a bar by calling someone’s mother, wife or girlfriend a whore. If that person comes towards me in a threatening manner like would be a normal response I can shoot them.

The opportunity in this new bill to commit first-degree murder and kill random people is huge. Yelling at the opposing crowd in a sporting event could now get you shot.

While this bill does correct some absurd notions about my right to protect my family it is irresponsible in its support of random violence. A better written bill could be acceptable but this is fucking nuts.

I'd like to understand the purpose of the bill. In all countries with a common law tradition (US, Canada, UK, Australia, etc) you've always had a right to defend yourself from the attacks of another and, if necessary, kill the person. Why create another piece of legislation?

---art

[SirMoby]

Originally Posted by artwilliams

I'd like to understand the purpose of the bill. In all countries with a common law tradition (US, Canada, UK, Australia, etc) you've always had a right to defend yourself from the attacks of another and, if necessary, kill the person. Why create another piece of legislation?

---art

Unfortunately in the USA you don't really have the right to protect yourself with such a level of force. I legally cannot shot someone for simply breaking into my child's room and if they don't have a weapon then I really can't use a gun to keep them from raping my wife.

Of course even if someone enters my home and points a gun at me there is the civil suit that the criminals family can slap me with if I shoot.

This law states that I can now use a gun to protect myself in situations that were previously outlawed or open to civil suits. From that stand point it's really a blow to bullshit lawyers and prosecutors but if you read the text it opens up a new world of legal killings.

[Ramster]

Originally Posted by porndragon

Just a sumary of some things.

Can you get an automatic weapon in the US? Yes with a class 3 atf license

Can you get a silencer in the US? Yes and in most states the common citizen can own them

Can you get armour piercing shells in the US? Yes again

Can you get grenades in the US? Big ole yep

Can you get incidiary rounds in the us? Yep again

Can you get C4/tnt/other explosives in the us? yes with a destructive devices license from the atf

Can you get shot in the us? Yes but less than 1% of legal gun owners have shot someone.

Can you get radioactive material in the us? Yes some on ebay right now.

So with all this being bought and 1% of it being used to terrorize citizens i find it hard to believe that guns are to blame for it.

How can you say guns are NOT to blame? People are to blame no doubt!!! But if guns were not legal to carry and own in the US then you can bet there would be waaaaaaay less shootings each year.

And by the way, the US population is over 295 million so 1% is nearly 3,000,000 people. So nearly 3 Million legal guns owners have shot someone.

[Cleo]

We should start giving guns to all the inmates in prison so that they can protect themselves from other inmates.

[porndragon]

Originally Posted by seven

When i want to shoot someone i play counter-strike...it's much safer ..now serious I don't think it's a good ideea to give guns to everybody...There are a lot of dumb asses out there and the only thing they need is a gun...

I am all for paintballing and things like that but yes I own 26 guns as of now and growing from pistols to shotguns to semi auto assault weapons I have them. I trick out most of my guns my Russian SKS has a black pistol grip stock, a 55 round mag, a flash supressor, a bayonet a sniper scope, and a neat lil completely legal crank on the trigger to make it fully automatic (got to love the loophole in the law that allows those), and I also have a couple cases of ammo including a few boxes of armour piercing which work great to shoot bowling balls .. I buy ammo by the 1000's and shoot em the same into a feild of cars that I own really fun when you are mad and need to let it out.. and yes everything I have is legal in my state have all the law books and god they read like a darn dictionary had cops look over it a few times specially when i made the mistake of walking down main street with my tricked sks on my shoulder.. I am currently working on getting a 50 cal BMG anti tank gun to play with but i own everything from junk 22's i got for $10 that need work to a 22 revolver made in germany over 100 years ago worth over $5k. I don't expect everyone else to like my hobby but it is my hobby and I love it.. This law may need some fine tuning but I believe in the long run it will do more good than evil..

[porndragon]

Originally Posted by Ramster

How can you say guns are NOT to blame? People are to blame no doubt!!! But if guns were not legal to carry and own in the US then you can bet there would be waaaaaaay less shootings each year.

And by the way, the US population is over 295 million so 1% is nearly 3,000,000 people. So nearly 3 Million legal guns owners have shot someone.

First off guns if made illegal doesn't solve anything as most shootings occure with stolen or smuggled weapons. Second off your statistics are messed up out of 295 million not all own guns in fact I would bet less than 50% and most of the shootings i reffer to in the 1% are accidental ie cleaning a loaded gun or mistaking a person for game when hunting. further more even if guns are banned you next have bows then knives then clubs then stones you will never stop violent behavior.. Just look at the bombings that happened in oaklahoma city and abroad most were amonia nitrate and diesel fuel bombs which you cannot ban diesel fuel and amonia nitrate anymore than you can watter or eating.

[DJilla]

Originally Posted by Cleo

South Florida has multiple shootings ever day already.
I myself have been a shooting victim.
These new laws are just so fucked up.

Sub Titled: Guns Don't Kill People. Bullets Do!

First off... Cleo, I'm very sorry for your experience, I know it must have been terrifying and you have every reason to hate the idea of guns everywhere. I have more than a few acquaintances that have been shot, and even killed (I'm in Chicago now, lots of gangs, lots of guns) and I dated an ER doctor so I know the trouble that a gunshot causes all the way up and down a family line. I am very sympathetic to your feelings. I just wanted to say that first so that my comments below don't seem callous.

If I could just say one thing about this and Florida (I'm really only just trying to add to my post totals really quick). I'm originally from Florida and it is a fabulous place to go and have fun especially on the Gulf Coast.

The gun thing isn't as big a deal as all the press made it out to be. Yeah, its a little extreme on the concealed side but not for Floridians. The reason is that everyone already had a gun anyway and most carried it. Most jurisdictions just required that the clip not be in it when you transport and it wasn't uncommon at all to see shop owners, etc. walking around strapped. The first thing you did when you got pulled over for speeding or whatever is say "hello officer, just want to let you know I have 9mm Gat in the glovebox and cruise missle in the trunk". He'd go "Oh' ok thanks for letting me know. Insurance and registration please". There is a gun shop in almost every strip mall up and down the trail. The funny affect that it has is that usually everyone is immensely polite to everyone else and you never have an argument at a four way stop sign. |blowkiss|

Criminals... that's another matter and no law will ever really change that though the feds are trying with extremely long sentences for felons that use a gun in commission of a crime AND they are really starting to prosecute them in bulk.

[Wazza]

You gun nuts just don't get it... come to a place where basically no one owns or has access to a gun and you'll get it eventually

Look at the statistics - the causes of death - the homicide rates - and you might get it

Yes murder and crime is a part of a big matrix of causes and counter balances - we've got social problems too - but when someone cracks they generally don't have a lethal weapon at their side...

[porndragon]

Originally Posted by Wazza

You gun nuts just don't get it... come to a place where basically no one owns or has access to a gun and you'll get it eventually

Look at the statistics - the causes of death - the homicide rates - and you might get it

Yes murder and crime is a part of a big matrix of causes and counter balances - we've got social problems too - but when someone cracks they generally don't have a lethal weapon at their side...

Everyone almost in my redneck state of WV has a gun and only shootings to take place in my town was 1 guy sdhot another in self defense now the second shooting was the same guy only this time with the cops as his target not uncommon here to see gun racks in trucks and hear shooting all hours of the night but hardly anyone hurt and noone died in either shooting. Also mine is a state where you drive a backroad in hunting season and see 10 hunters per every 10 miles walking with A 30.0.6 over their shoulder and noone is dead.. Also refuse to see where the statistics you reffer to lay california is one of the toughest countries on gun laws something like 37 pages in my book i think and has one of the highest homicide rates and gang violence rates in the country..

[Surfn]

Originally Posted by porndragon

Everyone almost in my redneck state of WV has a gun and only shootings to take place in my town was 1 guy sdhot another in self defense now the second shooting was the same guy only this time with the cops as his target not uncommon here to see gun racks in trucks and hear shooting all hours of the night but hardly anyone hurt and noone died in either shooting. Also mine is a state where you drive a backroad in hunting season and see 10 hunters per every 10 miles walking with A 30.0.6 over their shoulder and noone is dead.. Also refuse to see where the statistics you reffer to lay california is one of the toughest countries on gun laws something like 37 pages in my book i think and has one of the highest homicide rates and gang violence rates in the country..

You have your facts all screwed up. For one thing Wazza isn't from California. For another not everyone is as gun crazed as you.

[porndragon]

Originally Posted by Surfn

You have your facts all screwed up. For one thing Wazza isn't from California. For another not everyone is as gun crazed as you.

I never said he was from cali he said take a look and go somewhere where not everyone owned a gun well cali is the toughest anti gunner in the country called komiefornia by the pro gunners thought I would start there. What pisses me off isn't the fact that not everyone is gun crazed it's the fact that the anti gunners bitch and whine til they get laws passed to get rid of guns which limits my collection and the pro gun side doesn't do anything to hamper their choice of not owning a gun to each his own but pisses me off when other people have to whine like 2 year olds to affect my life without my ok or say so..

[Surfn]

My girlfriend server her internship as an ER doctor. She and I (I would stop by an visit her) have seen far too may innocent children shot and killed. Both accidentally and intentionally.


There is absolutely no reason for guns other than to hurt, maim, or kill.

[porndragon]

Hey i spend all day long hanging out argueing pro gun and anti gun views in yahoo chatrooms and in other forums but trust me one of these days when you guys are out and get mugged or attacked be it by human or animal you will think back and say to yourself omg dragon was right i should have bought a gun I have been attacked by a bear before thank god had one of my semi autos on me at the time trust me a time like that happens you don't think i shouldn't own guns you think where the hell is the gun and do I have enough bullets.. Given I live in a small town in the wilderness where this type of stuff does happen and not many chances of bear attacks in LA/NY or bigger areas but it is a reality here. Also I shouldn't have to be called a nut for my choice to own guns and like them I have never shot anyone nor have i called you a nut for not owning them. I call you an anti gunner which is what you are no nut before it no nut after it would appreciate just calling me a Pro gunner. And to be a nut would clearly mean that the ATF would not have given me a license from their office to collect these guns..

[porndragon]

Originally Posted by Surfn

My girlfriend server her internship as an ER doctor. She and I (I would stop by an visit her) have seen far too may innocent children shot and killed. Both accidentally and intentionally.


There is absolutely no reason for guns other than to hurt, maim, or kill.

I got one hell of a debate going on here now can't answer em as fast as they are comming at me K simple fact is and this is simple once again you would like to ban guns well many in the US would however for it to work the world would have to otherwise all the bin ladens of the world would have an open door.. Now saying the whole world would have to is a lil far fetched why? well nuclear weapons we can't even agree on getting rid of them and hmm let's see guns kill how many people a day? Nukes kill how many a second when launched should tip the scale work on getting rid of nukes first then I will hear yelling about guns also a ban would never work because it is to easy to make a firearm everyone knows how gun powder easy to make coal dust sulfur and i will leave the last 1 up to you to guess but mix it put it in a hollow tree even light it and bam gun or bomb either one guns once unleashed cannot be taken back...

[Surfn]

You know nothing about me. You just assume. Assumption sometimes isn't your friend. That's how people get shot and killed.

FYI, I grew up on a farm and had my own shotgun when I was 13. I never pointed it at any person intention or accidentally. People took responsibility for their own actions then. Now everything is someone else's fault and no one takes responsibility for their actions.

I don't want a gun nut pointing his weapon at me, my family, or my friends because he pissed about some assumption.

[porndragon]

Originally Posted by Surfn

You know nothing about me. You just assume. Assumption sometimes isn't your friend. That's how people get shot and killed.

FYI, I grew up on a farm and had my own shotgun when I was 13. I never pointed it at any person intention or accidentally. People took responsibility for their own actions then. Now everything is someone else's fault and no one takes responsibility for their actions.

I don't want a gun nut pointing his weapon at me, my family, or my friends because he pissed about some assumption.

I have never pointed a gun at anyone either and yes I do take responsibility for my actions had my first 22 when i was 11 and not assuming to much about you don't pretend to know you. Just what you say on these boards. and is another reason for guns history and as a hobby don't have to maime or kill something set up beer can or pop bottles just good ole fashion fun I shot about 1k rounds this evening and never maimed or killed anything other than a crow and some tin cans.

[Wazza]

Don't bang on about California...

I'm talking about Australia...

Go and find statistics on murder and violent crime rates in our two countries

I know where I'd rather be from a personal safety standpoint

When I'm talking about pineapples don't reply by telling me all about bananas...

I know this lot are hippy commie pinko leftie types but the stats speak for themselves...

http://www.bradycampaign.org/facts/issues/?page=kids

This bit is particularly sad...

"According to the Centers for Disease Control, the rate of firearm death of children 0-14 years old is nearly twelve times higher in the U.S. than in 25 other industrialized nations combined. The firearm-related homicide rate is nearly 16 times higher for children in the U.S. than in 25 other industrialized countries combined. The suicide rate of children 0-14 years old is twice as high in the U.S. as it is in those same 25 other industrialized countries combined. Interestingly, there is no difference in the non-firearm suicide rate between the U.S. and these other countries. Virtually all the difference is attributable to suicides committed with guns in the U.S"

Like I said - you gun nuts just don't get it...

[Linkster]

I guess I can always find an up side to anything this stupid - Jehovah's Witness's (think about it)

[RawAlex]

Originally Posted by Linkster

I guess I can always find an up side to anything this stupid - Jehovah's Witness's (think about it)

I think that would be self-defense.

Alex

[MrYum]

If not self-defense...at the very least...justifiable homicide

[DJilla]

Originally Posted by artwilliams
BTW, if I make threatening remarks at Disneyworld, will I get wacked? LOL!!
[/quote]

Many years ago there was a notorious, drunk, right wing, Texas Senator named John Hightower. He was appointed by Ronald Reagan to be Defense Sec.

In one of his early press conferences, reporters were asking him hard questions on what was then called "star wars" or SDI, or something about that space shield garbage.

In a testy reply he said that an "American public that worshipped a rat" (referring to Mickey Mouse ) was not up to understanding the technical issues involed with modern defense.

Later that week, his private jet took a noise dive straight into a remote forest. From that moment forward I learned to be very, very, afraid of citicizing anything with the word Disney in it.

By the by; gun ownership should be encouraged not to protect against an overly aggressive government run amuck, but for the inevitable battle with the aliens who are on their way at light speed.

[SirMoby]

Originally Posted by porndragon

one of these days when you guys are out and get mugged or attacked be it by human or animal you will think back and say to yourself omg dragon was right i should have bought a gun

Up until that statement I thought you were just confusing the right to own a gun with the right to commit murder. Afterall if you ever read the law that's being discussed here you will see that it is a right to commit murder law.

If you think that people are going to agree with you then you need to get out a little more.

The interesting thing about most of your points is that they point to the fact that gun control would be a good thing. However, even with your points I do support the COnstitutional right. Just the more you talk the more I want tighter controls.

[porndragon]

Originally Posted by SirMoby

Up until that statement I thought you were just confusing the right to own a gun with the right to commit murder. Afterall if you ever read the law that's being discussed here you will see that it is a right to commit murder law.

If you think that people are going to agree with you then you need to get out a little more.

The interesting thing about most of your points is that they point to the fact that gun control would be a good thing. However, even with your points I do support the COnstitutional right. Just the more you talk the more I want tighter controls.

I approve of the law with some changes and personally about the gun control I am just stating that the fact is it won't work and also wazzo the facts you state on the http://www.bradycampaign.org/facts/issues/?page=kids is as far anti gun as you can get that is the main website for the brady's the family who made background checks possible and the family who bans half the guns in the country I do not post much faith in their facts like me reffering you to the NRA website to get your facts I am not pro murder nor am I even pro abortion I am pro life on both of these however murder must happen is what noone sees people were not meant to live forever the world gets smaller and smaller compared to the number of people we are overgrowing it now even as a murderous society image if there was no guns no crime and everyone was happy a pipedream fantasy the world would be overun in no time flat. Sounds harsh but think about it it is true. I have a habit of standing outside the box and looking at things not to say I don't see the hopes and reasoning behind anti gun groups just that it is just that a pipe dream that will never be possible and the more laws you pass the more people take the step over to being criminals. I know people who were good in every otherway law abiding citizens but owned a gun that was questionable in it's legality once you get picked up sent to fed pen for 10 years it's hard to get out and not be a criminal your laws are creating the next generation of the very thing you hope to stop. Same thing with school shootings why add cameras, security passes and harsh punishment on students? Why not slap the kids who pick bully and cause these kids to snap with harsh punishments? Society as a whole balances itself it's the way it should be one side wants guns one side hates them one side want the right to have abortion one side doesn't it is the natural balance of things and it tends to get all screwed up when the goverment listens to one side over the other.