Effects Of 2257 For Non US Webmasters?

[kristian]

How pervasive (notice, I didn't say perverted) is 2257? I live in England (for now) but I effectively conduct business in the US: my sites are hosted in the US, I accept a majority of US-based gallery submissions, I submit my own galleries and free sites to US sites, and so forth.

This may be a stupid question, but opinions (if not definitive answers) would surely help me and possibly other non-US webmasters like myself.

[Ms Naughty]

Shot in the dark opinion:
I'm thinking it's best to comply with any new rules, but the chances of Mr Ashcroft prosecuting an overseas webmaster would probably be smaller than a US one.

Opinionated rant:
Goddam it's annoying having to comply with US rules and put up with a crazed conservative government when you have no chance to vote against that govt or have any input into it at all

[chilihost]

From what I have been reading, I think its best if you put up a 2257 statement with your address in the UK plus make sure your domains all have the same address. This makes you compliant but you also have full knowledge that it is not possible for US regulators to verify your records. (of course this is just my interpretation)

And yes, I agree that this is total BS that the US government thinks it can extent its reign of authority over non-US citizens.

What will be interesting is to see the fallout if this does become accepted. Will this mean all US based porn companies will move offshore? Will this require all US affiliate accounts have some sort of means to police its US affiliates for complaince? And most importantly will they actually try to charge anyone with 2257 non-complaince?


cheers,
Luke

[kristian]

grandmascrotum and chilihost,

Thanks for your feedback. One of the problems I have is no lawyer / solicitor / barrister understands the ins and outs of 2257 in the UK. Well, I should clarify, those I've spoken to are unable to help me.

I agree about international compliance as well. Since I don't vote for the US govt. it's ludicrous to assume I should blindly follow its legislature. However, also in agreement here, it's better to be safe than sorry.

If any other non-us webmasters would like to add further points, I think we could all benefit.

[Ramster]

I do not know that much about the new rules but being in Canada I'm not concerned. I will put up any neccessary warning pages and 2257 info and that's it. I won't lose any sleep over it.

chilihost said:
"I think its best if you put up a 2257 statement with your address in the UK".

I missed this part? We have to have our address published on the net if that's where our records are held?

[kristian]

Ramster,

I'm really hoping that's all I need to do as well. Until I hear otherwise, I've already began to work on that assumption. I was brought up in Barrie, Ontario -- maybe that's where I should have stayed.

[abe]

I really don't see how they could bother us, not living in the US. But of course, with laws and lawyers you never know...

As far as I understand it, they must come to your office to verify that you are compliant with the new regulations. I don't think they have the right to come into any office that is not under their jurisdiction.

[Jim]

Maybe, I like living on the edge. Or, maybe I have been hearing the world is coming to an end too often for the past 8 years. But, I am not going to do much noticeable changing. And, if I didn't live in the US, I wouldn't do a damn thing the US said to do

Of course with Great Britain's government being Gilligan to the US government's Skipper as of late, it wouldn't surprise me if they followed along. But, I would at least wait for that to happen.

Just a quick bit of history. In the past, the people saying the sky was falling always had something to gain by the fear it created.

[chilihost]

Originally posted by Ramster
I do not know that much about the new rules but being in Canada I'm not concerned. I will put up any neccessary warning pages and 2257 info and that's it. I won't lose any sleep over it.

chilihost said:
"I think its best if you put up a 2257 statement with your address in the UK".

I missed this part? We have to have our address published on the net if that's where our records are held?

The 2257 regulations state that you have to provide an address where the documents are stored, which is also supposed to be your primary place of business.
Once again, from xxxlaw.net on that 2257 table:

Sec. 75.6 Statement describing location of books and records.
Every statement shall contain:
...A street address at which the records required by this part may be made available.

cheers,
Luke

[chilihost]

Originally posted by Jim
Maybe, I like living on the edge. Or, maybe I have been hearing the world is coming to an end too often for the past 8 years. But, I am not going to do much noticeable changing. And, if I didn't live in the US, I wouldn't do a damn thing the US said to do

Jim, up until last week I totally agreed with you. I thought "screw this - I am not in the US so this does not affect me". But I have had several hosting clients and webmaster affiliates come to me worried about how this will affect them. So I am trying to help them out by trying to decipher this. Plus knowing a bit more about this has really helped put my mind at ease too!


cheers,
Luke

[emmanuelle]

I'm pretty confident that the US is not going to have someone extradited over clerical errors

[finnbear]

As I live in Finland I'm sure I'm not going to see any american inspector in my home office. But if one has balls enough to sit in plane 10-12 hours and find me, I gladly show him/her all papers, heat the sauna, and we can drink vodka and have a good time.

[Surfn]

Originally posted by Jim
Maybe, I like living on the edge. Or, maybe I have been hearing the world is coming to an end too often for the past 8 years. But, I am not going to do much noticeable changing. And, if I didn't live in the US, I wouldn't do a damn thing the US said to do

Of course with Great Britain's government being Gilligan to the US government's Skipper as of late, it wouldn't surprise me if they followed along. But, I would at least wait for that to happen.

Just a quick bit of history. In the past, the people saying the sky was falling always had something to gain by the fear it created.

As usual we think alike.

[Pornopat]

Actually it might be wise for European webmasters not to put it up.
This US law contradicts with the European Data Protection Act.
So if this act is strictly adhered you might be arrested in Europe for putting up this information.
Interesting aspect here is that the US government is in fact telling European webmasters to break European laws.
I doubt they would want to start a diplomatic riot....

[Fonz]

WIth all those child molester trials we had/have here in Belgium over the past years it's highly unlikely that they're gonna drop by my house and ask if I have a license to show nude pictures of mature women on the internet.

My only concern is that because I'm hosted in the US that my business will be considered a US business... I really don't know that much about it

[basschick]

i suspect this time the sky really IS falling... or at least, some large changes may happen.

it's amazed me how many content producers had no idea that they had to be available for law enforcement monday through friday during business hours. those producers are the only things between us and the law - if the law cannot find the custodians when they go to the listed address, who do you think they will come to next if the content is on your site?

[finnbear]

Only thing that can happen will be IMHO that US host drop you, but there are hosts in Europe too. If it goes to that I must leave my excellent host but just now I don't believe for that. I think I can put 2257 statement in my sites as usual. If I have to name myself as keeping of documents, no problem. I have legal company and I own it.

[lassiter]

Originally posted by Pornopat

Interesting aspect here is that the US government is in fact telling European webmasters to break European laws.
I doubt they would want to start a diplomatic riot....

Well, they're not doing that. What they are saying is that US-based webmasters MUST have that info, whether the content or sponsor is European-based or not. If a European sponsor or content provider cannot or will not provide Sec. 2257 recordkeeping information to the US webmaster, the US webmaster cannot use that content on his/her sites. The legal burden in this case is totally on the US affiliate or webmaster, since obviously a foreign entity cannot be prosecuted under US law.

So as far as non-US content providers are concerned, it's a business decision - can you afford to no longer sell to US webmasters?

And yes, it stinks.

[basschick]

it totally stinks and you're right pat. not only content producers but also affiliate programs can feel the bite of this one :-(

[wesley]

I live in Canada and the only reason I post 2257 on my sites is because some link sites will not list you without it, even though they don't bother to find out if you need it on your sites

[chilihost]

Fonz & finnbear,

where you host is irrelevant, the only thing that matters is where you are registered as conducting the majority of your business.

From proposed 2257 regulations:

"Producer does not include....A provider of Web-hosting services who does not manage the content of the computer site or service"

cheers,
Luke