LL owners, who's friendly to search engine style freesites?

MadMax · 2005-05-13, 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill

Some places will allow the "hub" linking you talk about, some will only allow it as the '3rd link out'. I've taken to doing it mostly as the '3rd link out' because of uptight LL webmasters.

Before you're too harsh on "uptight LL webmasters" you might want to spend a day in the reviewer's seat

It's difficult for upstanding webmasters who submit quality sites to understand the kind of madness and chaos that passes across the reviewer's screen on a daily basis.

I've listed SE style free sites before, and I'm still willing to list them...but ONLY with prior contact and only for webmasters I know and only if the sites still follow the spirit of the listing guidelines. In fact, we've done a hard link trade between pussy-freepussy.com and one of my niche hubs

When I first launched Fetish Philes I listed several of these types of sites, then slowly but surely had to delete and ban because my recips were removed.

I couldn't list pussy-freepussy.com in my regular site listings, because there are basic rules that the site doesn't follow...blind links, and the page after the warning page is basically an FPA with a misleading enter link then a small link to get to the actual main page where the links to the content are. I can bend rules for SE benefit, but I can't throw them out the window and still maintain order.

That said, I'd still be willing to trade hard links between my category pages and this type of site. If your end game really is SEO, then perhaps you should look in this direction. You'd likely find a lot more LL owners willing to trade hard links with you than set dangerous precedents by listing sites that don't follow the rules.

What you're calling a "free site" in this application is really a hubbed out warning page with a standard freesite back end. My big concern on this type of site is what it may turn into as more and more links are added.

Why not fully utilize the hub like many others do (including myself)?

Use the domain root as the hub (still with a warning and main page) and do all your trades there, then build standard free sites in subdirectories to submit to link lists...all of which are listed on the hub's main page. Your links from the hub's main page to your free sites can all be to clean warning pages without recips, and then follow on to the content of each individual free site.

This way you actually get to put more advertising between the surfer and the porn, plus get all the SEO benefits on the hub itself and a shitload more inbound links for the domain as a whole. Why settle for one link to your domain from each big LL when you can have as many as you can build free sites? Also put a link to your hub in with the recips on every mirrored warning page you submit. I'd be willing to list the standard free sites AS WELL AS do a hard link trade between the appropriate category page and the hub.

Also, I don't know how much time you've spend submitting standard free sites, but even on domains where I do nothing with the root I still see about 5% of surfers (all of them coming from a LL to a free site in a subdirectory) still backing out the subdirectories in the URL and going to the domain root (likely looking for more porn).

IMO, your net traffic and SEO will both be better with this model and you'll spend much less time frustrated.

Just a thought.

Bill · 2005-05-13, 09:23 PM

Max, what frustration I might have with uptight linklist owners comes _completely_ from my ordinary freesites. Not at all from my sefreesites. So the two things are really completely seperate.

And cmon, you LL owners bitch about us lousy submitters on a constant basis, is the rule now that we submitters can't occasionally bitch about owners and their idiosyncrasies? I'm sure you LL owners can take a little gentle ribbing. ;-}

And I did (or tried to) make a distinction between yahoo-style sefreesites, like pussy-freepussy, and DMOZ style freesites, which are much cleaner and simpler.

Yahoo style freesites were never intended to be linked by anything like a conventional linklist. I presented it as an example, to show that not all sefreesites are the same.

I may have muddied the water more than cleared it by talking about yahoo style sefreesites at all. Sorry about that.

So, what I was really talking about was linking to the dmoz-style sefreesites.

There's a lot more interesting stuff in your excellent post. You bring up category linking, which I was also going to bring up. There's almost too much to reply to, so I will pick one thing.

You said:
"What you're calling a "free site" in this application is really a hubbed out warning page with a standard freesite back end. My big concern on this type of site is what it may turn into as more and more links are added."

Yes, an accurate description, and that is something that does happen with sites like these- they do grow links over time. I can see that might be something that could get out of control. (In theory, they also increase in relevancy and ranking, which they pass back to the LL, much more so than a run of the mill freesite.)

However, there are excellent long established lists that don't seem to find this a big problem, as long as it's kept well under the enter link. It hasn't destroyed their lists or their reputation.

Bill · 2005-05-13, 09:36 PM

While I'm at it, I wanted to thank everyone for participating in this thread!

Captain, you are well known as someone who appreciates the value of se traffic, and how to get it.

Mr Yum, Yahook, and NochexContact, thanks for reponding, I'm taking a closer look at your lists, and I expect others are too.

Thanks to everyone. It's an interesting conversation.

MadMax · 2005-05-13, 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill

And cmon, you LL owners bitch about us lousy submitters on a constant basis, is the rule now that we submitters can't occasionally bitch about owners and their idiosyncrasies? I'm sure you LL owners can take a little gentle ribbing. ;-}

As long as the ribbing doesn't involve a Trojan I'm fine with it

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill

I may have muddied the water more than cleared it by talking about yahoo style sefreesites at all. Sorry about that.

If we're talking solely about sites like the DMOZ style site you posted above, that's another matter entirely. I got kinda sidetracked by the yahoo style site

I have no problem with some hard link trades well below the enter link on a free site...but again, only for those I know and only if I'm expecting this type of site from them. On a straight public submit I'd still decline, because with an unknown submitter I'd have to follow all those links while reviewing and, well...if I had to spend 5 minutes reviewing every submission nobody would get listed

2005-05-13, 09:23 PM	#2
Bill Selling porn allows me to stay in a constant state of Bliss - ain't that a trip! Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 3,914	Max, what frustration I might have with uptight linklist owners comes _completely_ from my ordinary freesites. Not at all from my sefreesites. So the two things are really completely seperate. And cmon, you LL owners bitch about us lousy submitters on a constant basis, is the rule now that we submitters can't occasionally bitch about owners and their idiosyncrasies? I'm sure you LL owners can take a little gentle ribbing. ;-} And I did (or tried to) make a distinction between yahoo-style sefreesites, like pussy-freepussy, and DMOZ style freesites, which are much cleaner and simpler. Yahoo style freesites were never intended to be linked by anything like a conventional linklist. I presented it as an example, to show that not all sefreesites are the same. I may have muddied the water more than cleared it by talking about yahoo style sefreesites at all. Sorry about that. So, what I was really talking about was linking to the dmoz-style sefreesites. There's a lot more interesting stuff in your excellent post. You bring up category linking, which I was also going to bring up. There's almost too much to reply to, so I will pick one thing. You said: "What you're calling a "free site" in this application is really a hubbed out warning page with a standard freesite back end. My big concern on this type of site is what it may turn into as more and more links are added." Yes, an accurate description, and that is something that does happen with sites like these- they do grow links over time. I can see that might be something that could get out of control. (In theory, they also increase in relevancy and ranking, which they pass back to the LL, much more so than a run of the mill freesite.) However, there are excellent long established lists that don't seem to find this a big problem, as long as it's kept well under the enter link. It hasn't destroyed their lists or their reputation.

2005-05-13, 09:36 PM	#3
Bill Selling porn allows me to stay in a constant state of Bliss - ain't that a trip! Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 3,914	While I'm at it, I wanted to thank everyone for participating in this thread! Captain, you are well known as someone who appreciates the value of se traffic, and how to get it. Mr Yum, Yahook, and NochexContact, thanks for reponding, I'm taking a closer look at your lists, and I expect others are too. Thanks to everyone. It's an interesting conversation.