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Linkster · 2005-06-27, 06:33 PM

Bill - I have to agree with Dave on this one - mainly because I've done exactly the same thing with a brand new domain - now I have seen a time delay on domains that were previously owned - I usually check the whois namespinner to see as the records in archive.org arent that trustworthy. But with a good basic site of content, and no other influences, I have never had more than a 2 update delay in getting high rankings for the targetted phrases. And I believe that is exactly the same delay that I have always seen and just has to do with linkbacks and page rank calcs.

Remember that one other thing that contributes to this "theory" of the sandbox is, in addition to the crap that most of these people bitch about not ranking with (the script generated 50k of page sites with 10k backlinks overnight) there are also the group of newer WMs that havent seen a normal Google update "cycle" so they dont know that waiting 8 weeks to be included in the index, another 2 months to rank well and maybe as much as a month for the addition to their index of new backlinks providing effects - is a very normal path to ranking well - they think it should be overnight - just like that wealth they expect to show up in their bank accounts tomorrow

Bill · 2005-06-28, 02:47 PM

Well, my experience is roughly the same as yours, which is, other than pages selected by the "freshbot", it takes 8 to 12 weeks for a domain to settle in at it's baseline ranking position. Which is roughly the same length of time it's been for the last four years.

Not that I actually time it, this is just the impression I get, because, as I said, I believe in letting domains age a bit before I really start developing them.

So, two more questions:

1. Do you guys see language about "ageing delays" and anti-spam delays in the new patent?

(I haven't read it, so I don't know if there are or are not.)

(cd34, Sparky, I think you said you read it, did you see anything about "ageing"??...)

and 2. Why is Jil Whalen, Queen of the White Hats, talking about the sandbox like this?

"it's my belief that the sandbox is basically a purgatory database where Google places certain URLs based on a variety of predetermined criteria. (Much of this is spelled out in the first part of the patent application.)

The aging delay, on the other hand, is actually a subset of the
sandbox. In other words, the aging delay is just *one* reason why a URL might get placed in the sandbox."

Is she just an idiot or what?

neveremail · 2005-06-28, 03:28 PM

I only know the basics of SEO but from what I gather from your conversation is that you all seem to follow the process of "ageing" a domain before developing it. So to me (being a bit ignorant about advanced SEO) it would seem that whether there is a sandbox or not is irrelevant as both sides do exactly the same and "age" a domain.

However what I would like to know from you guys is when you put a domain up with some basic content and then let it age before you develop it properly why dont you just try and develop it as soon as it goes up. I understand there is a delay in seeing SE results on that site but sooner or later they will catch up with your efforts (am i right??) so could you not just start working on your site right away bearing in mind that there will be a delay of 2-3 months before SEs start to recognise you?

Linkster · 2005-06-28, 04:39 PM

neveremail - I havent seen a difference whether I develop the domain the day I buy it or if I wait - it works exactly the same and has for years as Bill stated

Bill - as far as language in the patent - Ill look around to see if I can find any and get back

As far as Jil - that kind of "garbage writing" is meant for the masses - I could have said the same by saying that Google uses all kinds of algorithmic tactics on a newly purchased domain that makes it difficult for someone that wants to spam with a domain and makes them wait a while

My opinion as I stated before is that there is no delay with a fresh domain - with a previously owned domain there are some hurdles to overcome to make sure that you arent going to try to benefit from a domains previous attributes. Which again has been around since the "DMOZ expired" buying craze and was a defensive move that Google saw a need for - otherwise a domain takes just as long to get in and rank as it always has.

Linkster · 2005-06-28, 04:45 PM

Bill - after muddling through the first parts of the patent it sounds very much like a system I think they have been using for a long time - it basically takes the average growth of a site and looks at how fast a newly found domain grows, how often the pages really change, how often womeone searching for that specific info chooses an old doc versus a new one, etc etc.

Basically I think they are just writing up some of the averaging factors they have buit in to the algo over the last few years based on their link tracking theyve been doing and bringing in some of the preventative measures theyve added to control script generated sites - but I sure dont see anything that would lead me to a sandbox let alone a playground like some of these people have in their minds

2005-06-27, 06:33 PM	#1
Linkster NO! Im not a female - but being a dragon, I do eat them. Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Sex Delta Posts: 5,084	Bill - I have to agree with Dave on this one - mainly because I've done exactly the same thing with a brand new domain - now I have seen a time delay on domains that were previously owned - I usually check the whois namespinner to see as the records in archive.org arent that trustworthy. But with a good basic site of content, and no other influences, I have never had more than a 2 update delay in getting high rankings for the targetted phrases. And I believe that is exactly the same delay that I have always seen and just has to do with linkbacks and page rank calcs. Remember that one other thing that contributes to this "theory" of the sandbox is, in addition to the crap that most of these people bitch about not ranking with (the script generated 50k of page sites with 10k backlinks overnight) there are also the group of newer WMs that havent seen a normal Google update "cycle" so they dont know that waiting 8 weeks to be included in the index, another 2 months to rank well and maybe as much as a month for the addition to their index of new backlinks providing effects - is a very normal path to ranking well - they think it should be overnight - just like that wealth they expect to show up in their bank accounts tomorrow __________________ Pussy Chompers Porn Links NSCash

2005-06-28, 03:28 PM	#3
neveremail Oh no, I'm sweating like Roger Ebert Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 504	I only know the basics of SEO but from what I gather from your conversation is that you all seem to follow the process of "ageing" a domain before developing it. So to me (being a bit ignorant about advanced SEO) it would seem that whether there is a sandbox or not is irrelevant as both sides do exactly the same and "age" a domain. However what I would like to know from you guys is when you put a domain up with some basic content and then let it age before you develop it properly why dont you just try and develop it as soon as it goes up. I understand there is a delay in seeing SE results on that site but sooner or later they will catch up with your efforts (am i right??) so could you not just start working on your site right away bearing in mind that there will be a delay of 2-3 months before SEs start to recognise you? __________________ Please Re-Read The Rules For Sig Files

2005-06-28, 04:39 PM	#4
Linkster NO! Im not a female - but being a dragon, I do eat them. Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Sex Delta Posts: 5,084	neveremail - I havent seen a difference whether I develop the domain the day I buy it or if I wait - it works exactly the same and has for years as Bill stated Bill - as far as language in the patent - Ill look around to see if I can find any and get back As far as Jil - that kind of "garbage writing" is meant for the masses - I could have said the same by saying that Google uses all kinds of algorithmic tactics on a newly purchased domain that makes it difficult for someone that wants to spam with a domain and makes them wait a while My opinion as I stated before is that there is no delay with a fresh domain - with a previously owned domain there are some hurdles to overcome to make sure that you arent going to try to benefit from a domains previous attributes. Which again has been around since the "DMOZ expired" buying craze and was a defensive move that Google saw a need for - otherwise a domain takes just as long to get in and rank as it always has. __________________ Pussy Chompers Porn Links NSCash

2005-06-28, 04:45 PM	#5
Linkster NO! Im not a female - but being a dragon, I do eat them. Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Sex Delta Posts: 5,084	Bill - after muddling through the first parts of the patent it sounds very much like a system I think they have been using for a long time - it basically takes the average growth of a site and looks at how fast a newly found domain grows, how often the pages really change, how often womeone searching for that specific info chooses an old doc versus a new one, etc etc. Basically I think they are just writing up some of the averaging factors they have buit in to the algo over the last few years based on their link tracking theyve been doing and bringing in some of the preventative measures theyve added to control script generated sites - but I sure dont see anything that would lead me to a sandbox let alone a playground like some of these people have in their minds __________________ Pussy Chompers Porn Links NSCash

2005-06-28, 02:47 PM	#2
Bill Selling porn allows me to stay in a constant state of Bliss - ain't that a trip! Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 3,914	Well, my experience is roughly the same as yours, which is, other than pages selected by the "freshbot", it takes 8 to 12 weeks for a domain to settle in at it's baseline ranking position. Which is roughly the same length of time it's been for the last four years. Not that I actually time it, this is just the impression I get, because, as I said, I believe in letting domains age a bit before I really start developing them. So, two more questions: 1. Do you guys see language about "ageing delays" and anti-spam delays in the new patent? (I haven't read it, so I don't know if there are or are not.) (cd34, Sparky, I think you said you read it, did you see anything about "ageing"??...) and 2. Why is Jil Whalen, Queen of the White Hats, talking about the sandbox like this? "it's my belief that the sandbox is basically a purgatory database where Google places certain URLs based on a variety of predetermined criteria. (Much of this is spelled out in the first part of the patent application.) The aging delay, on the other hand, is actually a subset of the sandbox. In other words, the aging delay is just one reason why a URL might get placed in the sandbox." Is she just an idiot or what?