question.......

[RobUK]

Might well be a logical solution, at that. But I suspect that too will come with its own problems - it's fine only accepting submissions from folks who've submitted before, who you trust, who can show a history etc. But what about new submitters who don't have a history yet? How will they get at history under those conditions? I suppose they could be given a probationary partnership to see how it goes, but that might be a PITA for the LL owners to administer?

Rob.

[Surfn]

Originally Posted by RobUK

Might well be a logical solution, at that. But I suspect that too will come with its own problems - it's fine only accepting submissions from folks who've submitted before, who you trust, who can show a history etc. But what about new submitters who don't have a history yet? How will they get at history under those conditions? I suppose they could be given a probationary partnership to see how it goes, but that might be a PITA for the LL owners to administer?

Rob.

I give out partners to people I know from their submits, they have a history.

I also give temporary partners to people I don't know, who haven't submitted to me before. If they submit garbage time after time they get dropped. It's not difficult to revoke a partnership. On the other hand it's just as easy to demonstrate your ability to follow the rules and be upgraded to a full partner.

The big difference is I require real emails and real domains. When people give out their real info they are less inclined to cheat.

[Linkster]

Originally Posted by RobUK

But I suspect that too will come with its own problems - it's fine only accepting submissions from folks who've submitted before, who you trust, who can show a history etc. But what about new submitters who don't have a history yet? How will they get at history under those conditions? I suppose they could be given a probationary partnership to see how it goes,

I guess thats a part of it I should have posted - I only take partner submits and all of these autosubmitters dont even look at that rule - and I do tell them the way they can become a partner - and its very simple - but I still get hundreds a day that dont bother reading the rules

[ecchi]

The important point everyone seems to be missing here is that I am NOT saying "you should do this to be fair to your submitter" I am saying "you should do this to be fair to YOURSELF". The bottom line is: If you blacklist ANYONE who sticks to your rules, word will get round that you are a cheater (even if it is not your intention to cheat people). Not only will this reduce submissions, but most webmasters have friends who are not webmasters, but who surf for porn (i.e. your customers), and they will be telling these friends that you are a cheater too ("I wouldn't use that site if I were you, the guy who runs it cheats webmasters, and if he cheats webmasters he is going to seriously rip off surfers"). Those friends are also going to tell their friends, and because the original information came from a "webmaster" it is going to be taken even more seriously (inside info).

You don't really think people like Greenguy and Tommy became big by pissing people off do you? They got where they are because people (both webmasters and surfers) trust and respect them.

And before someone posts something like "I make a couple of thousand dollars a week and I ban IPs", think how much you would be making if you were more "submitter friendly". Probably well over ten grand a week.

RE: "do you really think that you would have time to send them and email to let them know?" I was actually referring to the fact that you automatically send them to a "thank you" page rather than to a "Sorry your submission is refused, please re-read the rules" page. However since you bring up emails, you should not have to send them an email. Any halfway decent script will automatically send out the emails when it junks the submission.

RE: "Any honest webmaster who feels he is unfairly blacklisted will contact the LL owner to ask why" I am guessing that you do not have many friends who are serious LL or TGP submitters, or you would not be saying this. Get talking to a few of your submitters, ask them if this is so, you will soon find that you are very wrong.

[Useless]

Originally Posted by ecchi

The important point everyone seems to be missing here is that I am NOT saying "you should do this to be fair to your submitter" I am saying "you should do this to be fair to YOURSELF". The bottom line is: If you blacklist ANYONE who sticks to your rules, word will get round that you are a cheater (even if it is not your intention to cheat people). Not only will this reduce submissions, but most webmasters have friends who are not webmasters, but who surf for porn (i.e. your customers), and they will be telling these friends that you are a cheater too ("I wouldn't use that site if I were you, the guy who runs it cheats webmasters, and if he cheats webmasters he is going to seriously rip off surfers"). Those friends are also going to tell their friends, and because the original information came from a "webmaster" it is going to be taken even more seriously (inside info).

I think you've lost your mind.

[Useless]

Originally Posted by ecchi

And before someone posts something like "I make a couple of thousand dollars a week and I ban IPs", think how much you would be making if you were more "submitter friendly". Probably well over ten grand a week.

Yup, you've lost your mind.

[stuveltje]

Originally Posted by Useless Warrior

Yup, you've lost your mind.

hahahahaha i am choking, i agree.

[Lemmy]

Originally Posted by ecchi

RE: "Any honest webmaster who feels he is unfairly blacklisted will contact the LL owner to ask why" I am guessing that you do not have many friends who are serious LL or TGP submitters, or you would not be saying this. Get talking to a few of your submitters, ask them if this is so, you will soon find that you are very wrong.

No I don't, but I am a serious LL submitter. In my 11 months in this business I've subbed over 200 freesites to at least 150 LLs. Twice I've received BL notices, twice I've approached the owner and twice I've received courteous replies explaining it was a mistake.

As fucked up as the system is (due in no small part to the cheaters) it works. Play straight and you'll be fine. Try funny stuff and pay the consequenses.

I think you seriously overestimate word of mouth on the net. By your reckoning I should soon be without both submitters and surfers, yet both are increasing.

I'm really not worried about my own reputation in the business, especially since, as I mentioned earlier, I've deleted all IP ban records and now ban by domain. That said, I'm getting more trigger happy on the ban button.

[ecchi]

Lemmy, I am curious, if you disagree with me then why did you delete all IP ban records and now ban by domain ?

And RE "I think you seriously overestimate word of mouth on the net. By your reckoning I should soon be without both submitters and surfers, yet both are increasing." Umm, if you have stopped banning by IP and both your submitters and (more importantly) surfers are increasing, I think that kind of [b]PROVES[b] my point doesn't it?

[Lemmy]

Originally Posted by ecchi

Lemmy, I am curious, if you disagree with me then why did you delete all IP ban records and now ban by domain ?

Because I wouldn't want anyone to be unfairly banned due to another person's shit. I thought that was clear.

[Lemmy]

Originally Posted by ecchi

Umm, if you have stopped banning by IP and both your submitters and (more importantly) surfers are increasing, I think that kind of [b]PROVES[b] my point doesn't it?

I changed my banning practises about a week ago. But I feel you're not going to happy unless I agree with you, so yes, it proves your point.