"Political Influence of Adult Sites" and "Free Speech Coalition" pressure.

[Bill]

Hello Tom - first of all, I want to say thank you for coming by and talking with us. It's clear from your words that you've been thinking about these questions even before coming here and that is immensely gratifying.

Even tho the FSC has been in existence for a long time, the organization is still a new and unknown entity to most of the online sector. 2257 brought the online sector and the FSC closer together than ever before. This presents an oppurtunity to everybody. There are some big fights coming up, fights over legalities and fights over principles, fights over the right to conduct business. There's never going to be a better time to get started on working together and getting prepared for the struggle that's coming.

Onliners have had a very easy time of things the last six years, we haven't had to be that political, and we haven't had to be very unified. A certain degree of dispute, disagreement, bickering, and bitching is just business as usual for us. So, hopefully the FSC can bear with the amount of daily disagreement we take for granted. And bear with us while we try to figure out how we want to do the political thing, because it's new for us.

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To start, I want to make one suggestion to you that I think everyone here would agree with. We'd like to see improvements to the website, to have the website modernized a bit. An online system for accepting memberships and contributions would probably be the most important thing, and something that allows quicker two way communications, like a blog. A blog would cost almost nothing, but it would require some human attention on a regular basis. An online system for accepting credit cards will cost something to install, but it should pay for itself very quickly if properly promoted.

So, we'd kinda like to talk with your webmaster and see what has to happen to get some improvements made.

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Again, thank you very much for coming by.

[furrygirl]

I'm not personally into the idea of one figurehead. No one person represents all sides of the adult internet, and no one would be able to agree on one person to trust.

As I said in one of the other threads, I really believe in having a number of different voices to be most effective, including women and performers. Yes, we horny cocksuckers can string words together, and you're only shooting yourself in the foot to limit yourselves to seeking out figureheads who are well known male webmasters. (Not to say that Conner or Greenguy wouldn't make great participants in such a project, but everyone needs to think outside the boy's club.)

I'm down for working on something like this. How about Seska, Tasty Trixie, Darklady, Violet Blue, or Heather Corinna? Or bigger names like Nina Hartley, Annie Sprinkle, and Tristan Taormino? Has anyone heard of any of these kick-ass women in adult and the personal fights many of them have fought to try and make adult better and speak out on behalf of porno?

(And how about throwing in some gay and trans people as well? While I'm not in gay circles, I'm sure there are wonderful people there, as well, who have even more stigmas and neo-con bullshit to battle.)

I think people are getting confused about their opponents in this matter, and forgetting that only half the argument against porn is based on protecting children. The other half is based on protecting women, and as someone who devotes no small amount of time to feminist/gender/sexuality studies, I know that a group helmed by a man who's never been in front of a camera wouldn't be received well by many women, intellectuals, and people on the liberal/left side of things. And yes, liberals and lefties *do* hate smut, too. Nothing confounds the shit out of them like having a porn chick back-sass their perfectly formed notions about how women need someone to protect them from themselves.

[Bill]

Well, I don't think we are anywhere near the point where we are defining figureheads and representatives. Altho I tend to agree with the points you make, especially the idea that having women speaking for porn publishing is particularly effective.

I like the idea of Tristan Taormino as a representative - she's an excellent writer and speaker.

Are you referring to what I was saying about 'who hosts the position statement'? I think it would be a good idea to have a woman hosting it, and serving as the contact point for it.

Altho, I think there's a real possibility that it could become a hard job, and that whoever does it might find themselves on the sharp end of "fifteen minutes of fame".

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On a related note, I thought Tom Hymes statement about censorship and extreme materials was very interesting. It started me thinking - I don't know if there is a clear and concise "position statement" that I've seen for the Free Speech Coalition.

But I like the idea of a fierce constitutional position, especially nowadays when the constitution seems to be the neocons favorite kicking boy, just another rag that obstructs their "war on terror" or "war on drugs" or "war on women" or "war on porn" or whatever the "war du jour" happens to be.

[DJilla]

Originally Posted by furrygirl

I'm down for working on something like this. How about Seska, Tasty Trixie, Darklady, Violet Blue, or Heather Corinna? Or bigger names like Nina Hartley, Annie Sprinkle, and Tristan Taormino? Has anyone heard of any of these kick-ass women?

The other half is based on protecting women

Nothing confounds the shit out of them like having a porn chick back-sass their perfectly formed notions about how women need someone to protect them from themselves.

Very good points! Personally, I have found that a well spoken women in conservative dress that is calm and clear always makes the best "spokesperson" and is commonly received better by a public than her gender counterpart. BUT, I would seriously suggest that there should be a context and manner without militancy, no bashing, no attack style, no overt feminism (you try not to attach additional potential irritants to an already irritable subject to the people you're speaking too hence conservative style and look). Again, its all about the "message in a wrapper". I'm all for a female (s) voice, face, front, whatever. All she/they have to do is step forward.

Which brings me to my next point: As these posts (and the one also going on about labels and metatags is a perfect example) develop themselves into "good rounded ideas" and a seeming general agreement begins to appear, all it takes is someone to step up and begin doing some work on the project that interests them and other people will fall in line to help and support. Don't necessarily need to wait for someone to be "appointed". Like the Nike commercial used to say "Just Do It"! Do the work and then report back here or start a thread asking for feedback and reporting on updates. For example, I'm going to follow up on preliminary emails with FSC re: a webpage that will outline examples in the history and consequences of government (and religious) censorship. If they don't want to host it I'll put it on one of my own mainstream sites. The same can go for the technical subject of tags with someone of that experience. All it takes is contact. Its amazingly easy (and interesting) to reach out and contact people who count and can exert influence. Collect position papers, suggest changes, etc. There are staffs at W3, MS & MSN, Google, and the like whose whole job is to respond to things like this with position papers and the like. Anybody can begin to move them forward by just tickling a little. This is the preliminary or reaguard actions that are needed for any "movement" to be successful. IMHO

Also One More Idea For Individual Action: it has been my experience that reporters are a generally fun, easy going, and approachable group more than willing to exchange info and resources. If you know any or like a particular one's writing, email them and begin to cultivate a relationship that you can feed into down the road. The important point to remember is that one is representing a large group when they speak or write upon these subjects and you/they have the responsibility to always tone down one's personal point of view and soften it to include the larger group's perspective.

[furrygirl]

Originally Posted by DJilla

Don't necessarily need to wait for someone to be "appointed". Like the Nike commercial used to say "Just Do It"!

I don't think I'm the only one who does take small actions all the time. I am out about being a pornographer to everyone but my landlord and bank, from grand parents to people I meet on buses and on non-adult boards. (The reason I don't tell me bank or landlord is because I am not willing to risk being out a bank account and a place to live, which puts be out of business.) I have been in countless discussions about the industry with people who range from fascinated by the glitzy world of porno to those who believe I am no better than a rapist ans treat me as such. I see many of the women I mentioned above also taking on such discussions, but I don't think they're as widely read by webmasters as say, Conner Young.

I think that the best personal action anyone can take is to tell even one friend/family member about what they do. The reason that there's this image of pornographers as waiting around high school parking lots trying to drug and trick girls into fucking on camera is that very few of us are willing to counter that. I certainly do not look like someone who makes "extreme porn", I look like a nerdy college student who dresses relatively conservatively. I'm not outing myself to *everyone* in my life, but the more people who we all come out to, the more we shatter stereotypes about who we are.

Originally Posted by DJilla

BUT, I would seriously suggest that there should be a context and manner without militancy, no bashing, no attack style, no overt feminism (you try not to attach additional potential irritants to an already irritable subject to the people you're speaking too hence conservative style and look). Again, its all about the "message in a wrapper". I'm all for a female (s) voice, face, front, whatever. All she/they have to do is step forward.

I'm not sure if it's how you meant it, but I could read that to say that you're not interested in feminist perspectives, just a woman to say what the guys would be saying. Involving women in any project like this involves taking into account their own perspectives, and for many of us females in adult, that perspective includes the big scary F-word.

Anti-sex and anti-porn feminism has slowly been dying out, and the "new wave" tends to embrace sexuality and smut a lot more than we did 30 years ago. My personal sum of being a feminist is that all women should do whatever they want with their own bodies, and that anyone telling them otherwise needs to mind their own business. (Be it anti-abortion lawmakers, homophobes, or people who don't think women should be allowed to fuck for money, or fuck before marriage.)

It amazes me that some women who tout themselves as "feminists" believe that their job is to tell other women how they are supposed to live and what they're allowed to do. Excuse me? Makes no sense, but it's a part of our "nanny culture" in America.

So, while a lot of people might only be thinking of Andrea Dworkin when they conjure up the image of "feminist", "feminism" really isn't something to be afraid of and dismiss as some out-there militant bull dyke idealism. And trust me, if having "women can do what they want to do with their own bodies" sounds too radical as a part of a pro-porn project, remember how extreme it is in many eyes, in and of itself, to be a pornographer.

[docholly]

It amazes me that some women who tout themselves as "feminists" believe that their job is to tell other women how they are supposed to live and what they're allowed to do. Excuse me? Makes no sense, but it's a part of our "nanny culture" in America.

REAL feminists don't label themselves. They act, live and do.