"Political Influence of Adult Sites" and "Free Speech Coalition" pressure.

[SirMoby]

Please, this can still be a good thread. There is no reason to be discussing feminists here unless the goal is to kill another productive thread.

[walrus]

SirMoby, thank you for that reminder. It saved me from getting into something I probably shouldn't!

By the way, the FSC does have a pretty interesting / funny article about how the media got the govt / google search subpoena thing wrong which I think I shall link to from one of my blogs. http://www.freespeechcoalition.com/

[Bill]

Something that I think would be worthwhile to do in this thread is to "brainstorm" a bit about what we would like to see happen between us and the FSC.

By brainstorming I mean just throwing in quick ideas, to create a list of things to talk about. These brainstorm ideas don't have to be anything special or thought out - they are just there to get discussions started.

1. For instance, here's an idea. We know FSC will bitch about the cost of revamping their website. So we have a fund&skills drive here at GG&J, pull together the few thou and the workers it will take to give them a CC processor and a blog. In exchange the FSC puts a banner to GG&J on their website, making GG&J the "official" cool webmaster board.

If anybody else has any ideas - and they don't have to be especially serious - of what the FSC can do for us, just toss them into the hat.

[furrygirl]

Originally Posted by SirMoby

Please, this can still be a good thread. There is no reason to be discussing feminists here unless the goal is to kill another productive thread.

If you guys are going to grudgingly accept and/or welcome the idea of women working on an "in defense of porn" project, you better get used to hearing our opinions on why we defend porn, otherwise this thread might as well be re-titled "Speaking out on behalf of the entire adult industry- for male webmasters only!" Males and webmasters are just one part of the industry, but I realize that any board/group would be eager to select leaders from its own pool. (Maybe if you asked 100 people who do camerawork and lighting on sets, they'd agree that a handful of them were the best ones to represent the entire industry, too.)

This is the third time I've said this: ONE OF THE MAIN ARGUMENTS AGAINST PORN IS THAT IT HURTS WOMEN. Frankly, you're not going to be able to counter that as a group of male TGP webmasters who have no experience in front of the camera saying, "Uh, no it doesn't. We don't think so. Uh, it's their choice."

[Surfn]

Originally Posted by furrygirl

...Frankly, you're not going to be able to counter that as a group of male TGP webmasters who have no experience in front of the camera saying, "Uh, no it doesn't. We don't think so. Uh, it's their choice."

If that's what you truly think you have a lot to learn.

[furrygirl]

Originally Posted by Surfn

If that's what you truly think you have a lot to learn.

So... you think that a gallery submitter is the most qualified person to speak to the world about what it's like to be an adult performer? Excuse me, but that makes as much sense as having an anti-porn crusader say that they're speaking on behalf of *me* and my human rights.

I realize that this is a free site/TGP board, but people here tend to forget that they are not the only people in the adult industry. "Adult" consists of all sorts of people working on all levels, and for any micro-group of the industry to say that they're the best ones to speak for everyone, they're just making themselves look silly and inexperienced.

I've read more anti-porn writings than any 100 people here, and I guarantee that a statement by a bunch of webmaster dudes about how women and performers probably feel about their work would be dismissed by every single anti-porner out there, and would do further damage by showing that even "adult industry" can't be bothered to get input from their "content".

[Surfn]

Originally Posted by furrygirl

So... you think that a gallery submitter is the most qualified person to speak to the world about what it's like to be an adult performer? Excuse me, but that makes as much sense as having an anti-porn crusader say that they're speaking on behalf of *me* and my human rights.

I realize that this is a free site/TGP board, but people here tend to forget that they are not the only people in the adult industry. "Adult" consists of all sorts of people working on all levels, and for any micro-group of the industry to say that they're the best ones to speak for everyone, they're just making themselves look silly and inexperienced.

I've read more anti-porn writings than any 100 people here, and I guarantee that a statement by a bunch of webmaster dudes about how women and performers probably feel about their work would be dismissed by every single anti-porner out there, and would do further damage by showing that even "adult industry" can't be bothered to get input from their "content".

Your youth and inexperience are shining through. Some of us do a hell of lot more than just TGP's. If you actually took the time to do some research you could have found articles of mine dating from the present back to the middle 90's on various aspects of this industry from my first hand experiences.

I understand your position and respect it. You obviously have no respect for those who blazed the trail for you to do what you do. If you did you would more likely than not have a different perspective. You are born of a generation that wants everything now. Some of us understand the concept of changing from within and building a solid foundation for our actions.

If you really want to make a difference then do it. Rhetoric is not going to get the job done.

[SirMoby]

Originally Posted by furrygirl

If you guys are going to grudgingly accept and/or welcome the idea of women working on an "in defense of porn" project, you better get used to hearing our opinions on why we defend porn, otherwise this thread might as well be re-titled "Speaking out on behalf of the entire adult industry- for male webmasters only!" Males and webmasters are just one part of the industry, but I realize that any board/group would be eager to select leaders from its own pool. (Maybe if you asked 100 people who do camerawork and lighting on sets, they'd agree that a handful of them were the best ones to represent the entire industry, too.)

This is the third time I've said this: ONE OF THE MAIN ARGUMENTS AGAINST PORN IS THAT IT HURTS WOMEN. Frankly, you're not going to be able to counter that as a group of male TGP webmasters who have no experience in front of the camera saying, "Uh, no it doesn't. We don't think so. Uh, it's their choice."

Has anyone disagreed with you other then Surfin? Did anyone dismiss the idea of having a female spokes person? I posted that it was worthless to discuss "feminists" in this thread and I still don't see why it's fruitful.

This thread should be a list of constructive bullet points instead it's just another bash the FSC and argue about side issues while bypassing the actual issue at hand. The board has been chosen and Conner Young appears to be the only one with any on-line experience.

If we can't post consice recommendations without getting caught up in pissing matches then we're not going to be successful in working together. I think somewhere in your pages of posts filled with passion and angst that you might have a few good bullet points.

Care to post some bullet points so that we can clearly see your ideas? Is there really any need to get into more pissing matches?

[walrus]

Originally Posted by SirMoby

Please, this can still be a good thread. There is no reason to be discussing feminists here unless the goal is to kill another productive thread.

Thought this needed to be repeated and I'm still biting my tongue and its starting to fucking hurt!

[Surfn]

My final word on this subject. The input from all interested parties should be weighed before a final decision. If you get a consensus by throwing out the far left and the far right you have something with broad appeal.

[Halfdeck]

Originally Posted by Bill

1. For instance, here's an idea. We know FSC will bitch about the cost of revamping their website. So we have a fund&skills drive here at GG&J, pull together the few thou and the workers it will take to give them a CC processor and a blog.

Sounds good to me Bill.

What about an informal get together at Phonix Forum, where we can listen to you and maybe, maybe come to some sort of consensus about these issues?

Hi Tom, thanks for droppiong by.

If you're referring to the get-together in Arizona ... it would be far easier if we could set up a one-hour live chat session where any webmaster can participate without hopping on a plane.

[Toni KatVixen]

You can NOT discuss porn with out the feminist view. You are using women to make your money but IT is our pussies, our tits & our ass out there.....it sure isn't yours.

The 2 biggest arguments used against us in porn are:
1) protect the children
2) it DEGRADES WOMEN

The only way to fight against those arguments is to know what all sides are saying INCLUDING the feminist side, which will team up with the bible-thumpers.

You as a male, DO NOT represent how we women are viewed or treated since we are the ones in front of the camera getting fucked. This industry is so sexist that you just write us women off as if we have nothing to say. Hell, I see it at the conventions all the time, if a girl is in front of the camera she is not taken seriously as a business partner, just piece of meat.

Prime example, Furry Girl brings up a valid point and you write it off as her youth and patronize her?!? If it was coming from a male, you would not have being so dismissive.

[Bill]

Well, as far as I'm concerned, the idea of trying to get female spokepersons and representatives is so inherently and obviously smart that it really doesn't need to be defended.

The questions remaining on that are tactical - who to cultivate, how to get them practice at public performance, how to pay them, etc..

And, as I said before, I don't think we are at that stage yet. When we have some women who are willing to take on the responsibility, then we can analyze their style of presentation and talk about wether it's too feminist or not feminist enough.

However, right now we are in a much earlier stage of the political game. The task ahead of us is to get enough organization and energy to be able to worry about things like paying a spokesperson.

Which brings me back to brainstorming. The idea is to throw in ideas for what we want the FSC to do. If you had the power to get the FSC to do anything you wanted, lets say within, oh, $5,000 to $50,000 worth of something, what would that be?

[Toby]

Originally Posted by KatVixen

You can NOT discuss porn with out the feminist view. You are using women to make your money but IT is our pussies, our tits & our ass out there.....it sure isn't yours.

There's is absolutely no question about that, and from what I read at the start of this discussion I think many also believe it's better to have a notable adult industry woman as the main spokesperson. Where I see a problem is in the labeling of those views as "feminist" rather than simply including them as part of the overall position statement.