Affiliate program growth

[LB]

I think if a program isn't using nats, mpa, etc etc or their own affiliate software and is using ccbill etc then they are probably only playing 'sponsor'.

I have used or worked with programs that use Jettis, Epoch, CCbill, even Verotel ... and have used their affiliate software. I can honestly say that the affiliate software provided by these 3rd party processors simply can't compare to Nats on almost every level except maybe some affiliate ease of use areas. Not only that but I know for a fact that CCbill does not do affiliate tracking particularly well, and there are many sales that are made by an affiliate that never credited to an affiliate.

You would be an idiot to shave in today's competitive program arena. You wan't every single sale an affiliate makes to be credited to them to keep them promoting your program, and I know that Nats does a wonderful job of that... and feel their affiliate tracking is probably the best of the game.

My advice is if you are starting a program, start with affiliate management software straight off the bat.... it will save you hassles down the line and you will be taken more seriously by many higher volume affiliates.

[Greenguy]

Originally Posted by LB

...Not only that but I know for a fact that CCbill does not do affiliate tracking particularly well, and there are many sales that are made by an affiliate that never credited to an affiliate...

If that's true & the program is using NATS or MPA, wouldn't the sale still not be credited to the affiliate? I mean, if CCBill (or any processor) screws it up, the fancy program would, by default, screw it up as well since it's just reporting the info the processor gives them.

[Evil Chris]

Originally Posted by Greenguy

If that's true & the program is using NATS or MPA, wouldn't the sale still not be credited to the affiliate? I mean, if CCBill (or any processor) screws it up, the fancy program would, by default, screw it up as well since it's just reporting the info the processor gives them.

I don't think that's necessarily true. Our stats backend works on the session ID system for example. It's at our level that the referral is made, not at the processor level.

Some good points here all around but I would have to say that to be more in control of your affiliate program and your affiliates, one would eventually have to take on a NATS, MPA, or similar service in order to grow and keep up with one's own growth.

The bells and whistles aren't just that... they are necessary tools and you want to keep things simple and uncomplicated for the affiliate or they will go away to someone else's program. Cascading billing is also a must. Once upon a time it was "nice to have" or a marketing point. Now it is fully expected by the affiliate.

If I were just starting out a new program, I think I would want to come out of the gates with my own backend control.

[Greenguy]

Originally Posted by Evil Chris

...Cascading billing is also a must. Once upon a time it was "nice to have" or a marketing point. Now it is fully expected by the affiliate...

Do you know that if you had said that in the original post, this thread would have taken a completely different turn?

Everything I posted in here was based on a program that was using CCBill changing to NATS or MPA just for the bells & whistles while NOT using the cascading billing option & sticking with just CCBill as a processor.

And believe me when I say that I am talking out my ass when it comes to the program's admin as far as any of these (not what the affiliate sees) - the only one I've ever seen was CCBill's & the last time I looked was 2 or 3 years ago.

[LB]

Originally Posted by Greenguy

If that's true & the program is using NATS or MPA, wouldn't the sale still not be credited to the affiliate? I mean, if CCBill (or any processor) screws it up, the fancy program would, by default, screw it up as well since it's just reporting the info the processor gives them.

Sorry for the late response, was enjoying a weekend holliday

Anyhow, when using ccbill or any other processor through an affiliate software management system like mpa or nats you are sending the surfer to the actual software which then sends it onto the processor. Its the nats/mpa software that is calculating signups, crediting accounts etc ... ccbill is only processing the transactions.

There are many sponsors which use ccbill processing but use their own affiliate software to keep track of sales etc ... pussycash would be one example.

As chris said cascading is just one example where software like nats and mpa can really help pick up on extra sales, along with the ability to have as many payment methods as you want but still all are credited to the affiliate.

[emmanuelle]

Originally Posted by LB

I think if a program isn't using nats, mpa, etc etc or their own affiliate software and is using ccbill etc then they are probably only playing 'sponsor'.

Before you insult several of the people here, you might consider that not everyone feels the need to rely on a program to support their business. There are MANY people running quality sites that manage to succeed without jumping at the newest trend. They do it on their own terms, with accountability and integrity being paramount. They answer to their members first & foremost, and if such policies discourage some affiliates, then so be it.
Every one of these webmasters has an emotional attachment to their business. They do not engage in the 'playa' game, fill their sites with tons of the cheapest purchased content available, or bill their customers in unfamilliar currencies to make a quick buck and piss off their customers in the process.
While not inherantly necessary, these same webmasters open their doors to affiliates, offer fair terms and share a quality product that both they and affiliate can succeed with. They are not 'playing sponsor', but rather they are operating under a different business model which does not require all those bells & whistles.

[LB]

Originally Posted by emmanuelle

Before you insult several of the people here, you might consider that not everyone feels the need to rely on a program to support their business. There are MANY people running quality sites that manage to succeed without jumping at the newest trend. They do it on their own terms, with accountability and integrity being paramount. They answer to their members first & foremost, and if such policies discourage some affiliates, then so be it.
Every one of these webmasters has an emotional attachment to their business. They do not engage in the 'playa' game, fill their sites with tons of the cheapest purchased content available, or bill their customers in unfamilliar currencies to make a quick buck and piss off their customers in the process.
While not inherantly necessary, these same webmasters open their doors to affiliates, offer fair terms and share a quality product that both they and affiliate can succeed with. They are not 'playing sponsor', but rather they are operating under a different business model which does not require all those bells & whistles.

Fair enough ... and not my intention to insult people It was just my opinion formed from my many years in this business and I just voiced it because it related to this thread.

Though I warn about being too emotionally attached to your business, though having pride in what you've built may have been what you meant. Overly emotional business men and women are a pain to deal with and usually find it hard to foster more than a handful of good business relationships.

[emmanuelle]

Originally Posted by LB

Though I warn about being too emotionally attached to your business, though having pride in what you've built may have been what you meant. Overly emotional business men and women are a pain to deal with and usually find it hard to foster more than a handful of good business relationships.

Thanks for the advice coach. How about you run your business the way you see fit, and I will run mine as I have since '98 as I see fit; without criticizing each other's respective business plans.

[Toby]

Originally Posted by emmanuelle

Thanks for the advice coach. How about you run your business the way you see fit, and I will run mine as I have since '98 as I see fit; without criticizing each other's respective business plans.

You were far more diplomatic than I would have been.

The reply that immediately came to my mind was, "Don't open your mouth just to change feet."

[Greenguy]

Originally Posted by LB

...Though I warn about being too emotionally attached to your business, though having pride in what you've built may have been what you meant. Overly emotional business men and women are a pain to deal with and usually find it hard to foster more than a handful of good business relationships.

LB - you're painting with a very big brush on this. I am emotionally attached in a ridiculous manner to a lot of my sites (this board included) and I have a ton of great business relationships.

I think the main points on all this is that you don't have to have NATS or MPA or whatever to run a successful business AND having one of them does not mean that your program is better than one that uses the CC processor's tools.

[Useless]

Originally Posted by Greenguy

I think the main points on all this is that you don't have to have NATS or MPA or whatever to run a successful business AND having one of them does not mean that your program is better than one that uses the CC processor's tools.

I would go as far to say that programs that don't use NATS or MPA are better. As an affiliate, I used to love the bells and whistles. I really did. But as time goes on and I anaylze my sales trends, I see consistancy in the sales/rebills I make with CCBill programs and odd behaviour amongst the programs I'm affialiated with that use other tools. That's all I'm going to say.

Disclaimer: The preceding text is opinion and is based on one man's experience. The author realizes that opinion is dangerous when it conflicts with the opinions of others and the author is thusly willing to compromise by saying, "that's too fucking bad". If you feel the preceding text is implying something that was not overtly stated, then you are probably a lot fucking smarter than you look. PS - The author is behind you, looking through the window.

[karomesis]

The author realizes that opinion is dangerous when it conflicts with the opinions of others and the author is thusly willing to compromise by saying, "that's too fucking bad". If you feel the preceding text is implying something that was not overtly stated, then you are probably a lot fucking smarter than you look. PS - The author is behind you, looking through the window

"My manner of thinking, so you say, cannot be approved; do you suppose I care? A poor fool indeed is he who adopts a manner of thinking for others"- Marquis De Sade

Disclaimer: The preceding text is opinion and is based on one man's experience.

Perhaps, but what if the "experiences" of others were similarly fashioned? And If you don't mind me asking UW,What is the time frame you speak of? People can be struck by lighting or maybe win the lottery, but having those events occur twice to the same person decreases the probability exponentially, and likewise with consecutive occurences.

I completely agree with the last three posts and am currently attempting to foster some extemely high quality business relationships myself. I only have a handful right now, but I'm in it for the long haul, so I guess time will allow for more.

[LB]

Originally Posted by Greenguy

LB - you're painting with a very big brush on this. I am emotionally attached in a ridiculous manner to a lot of my sites (this board included) and I have a ton of great business relationships.

I think the main points on all this is that you don't have to have NATS or MPA or whatever to run a successful business AND having one of them does not mean that your program is better than one that uses the CC processor's tools.

I can accept that. I was just voicing my on topic opinion ... I didn't realise I would get lynchmobbed for it.

[karomesis]

I have had zero experience with running a program thus far in my 4 months in the biz, but I am deeply curious why some of the veterans here are not particularly fond of nats and other recently introduced processors.|confused|


So the question begs itself, what are the direct comparisons between the old standbyes and the new processors?

And what data is there to qualify the answers? (i.e. proof)

[Toby]

Originally Posted by karomesis

...I am deeply curious why some of the veterans here are not particularly fond of nats and other recently introduced processors.|confused|

First a little clarification. NATS, MPA3, etc are not processors, they are comprehensive sponsor program scripts, most of which are capable of utilizing multiple processors.

The biggest issue that I have with NATS and MPA3 is that the affiliate admin isn't the most user friendly in some areas. Retrieving hosted galleries and hosted free sites can be a major hassle if you want more than one or two at a time. Stats are pretty good, but could be better. I'm sure others will have a few things to add.

[Greenguy]

Originally Posted by LB

I can accept that. I was just voicing my on topic opinion ... I didn't realise I would get lynchmobbed for it.

I think you're getting bashed a bit because you opinion seems to be that unless you use NATS or MPA or whatever, your program is not as legit/good as those that do.

I think everyone would take a program that converts/retains & uses CCBill over one that doesn't convert/retain & uses the fancy stuff

[DangerDave]

Originally Posted by LB

Though I warn about being too emotionally attached to your business, though having pride in what you've built may have been what you meant. Overly emotional business men and women are a pain to deal with and usually find it hard to foster more than a handful of good business relationships.

Add me to the chorus!

Some of us don't want to foster more than "a handful of good business relationships"... as that is about the limit of decent reliable people in this biz, and probably all we need.

DD