Do we, as an adult webmaster community, oppose supporting adult versions of YouTube?

[ClickBuster]

Originally Posted by Useless Warrior

I think most of us are anti-tube for the same reason we are against free sites with 1k pics on them. We should, as a community, have some type of barometer of how much free porn is too much compared to the amount of advertising the surfer must confront.

True, but who cares about tons of videos when after watching 5 crappy video one after another you just close the site and move on to the next one. Peope who are serious porn buyers care about the quality of delivered free porn, not the amounts. IMHO it's always like that, no matter the industry.

[GonZo]

Originally Posted by Tommy

you guys are a bunch of hypocrytes

I have seen so many webmasters defend porn by claiming free speech but now that their income could be threatened free speech doesn't matter so much

to much free porn is no good for the business but of course those very same webmasters are putting porn on the web for free.
but of course they are putting out just the right amount of free porn, so its ok


ohh and lets not forget the copyright BS
that's like telling Ford they cant build cars cause some of them might be used as get away cars to rob banks

you would starve technical innovation and progress because somebody might violate a copyright. what if they said that about the Internet as whole back in 1995

99.9 percent of adult content owners never bother to file any copyrights

Amen brother.

[Toby]

Originally Posted by Tommy

99.9 percent of adult content owners never bother to file any copyrights

You don't have to file in order to have copyright. All original work is copyrighted at the time of it's creation. The only thing to gain by filing is that you're in a much better position to prove the work is yours should you actually go to court, and you're also eligible for treble damages.

[Greenguy]

I know it's only about 2.5 hours into the thread, but I am happy to see the 1/17/1 vote so far

[ClickBuster]

I support FLV and video stream as a solution replacing video download, which is the format most of the Tube sites use.

I personally use some of those sites to put automated content on my pages allowing people to directly stream the content off there.

However, I do not support full length videos to be posted on such sites, which one of the common practices at Bad Jojo for example. There're clips with over 5 minutes of play time as well as full length videos split into several parts - that way the distribution method becomes no different than warez, P2P, torrents, etc.

If done correctly to the webmaster community I see no offense in this kind of sites. I personally think that PornoTube may be quite useful for skillful webmasters in order to bring new traffic to their sites or help add new content to their existing pages.

One of the things I like about Tube sites is that you can create FLV content for your pages, but if you publish it on a Tube site you get free hosting (if you'd rather link to a remotely hosted video) and extra exposure from the site's visitors.

There's and there will be more than enough free content. However, I don't think it matters nowdays. Savvy people have their ways to get full-length videos without paying - there're more than enough pass sites and mIRC channels out there for the looking, not to mention everything else.

Tube sites are just another version to display free content. From my POV it's the more advanced and up-to-day method to do it and I think that most of the users would prefer it, instead of browsing differently looking, unstandartisized pages. Not to mention the community features of that kind of sites, which IMHO seriously lacks on TGP and LinkList sites.

I jerk off quite a lot to know that it's much better to go and click 2 times to watch a video, that's going to start immediately and even if it's only 2 mins long it's much better than going thru tens of pages to find something fitting my needs

[ClickBuster]

Also let me add a few other points before I go:

1. SE traffic is not built by hosting videos
2. The traffic quality of TGPs is MOSTLY low
3. All of us expose the surfers to huge amounts of free content
4. Most people don't know what FLV is, nor how to save it on their PCs, but all galleries and free sites allow you to download the files on your PC
5. Tube sites are mostly filled with freeloaders

What I'm saying is - it's the same thing. The difference is in the technology used to get the content to the surfers and like it or not - Tube sites are more up to date than TGPs and LLs.

The thruth is in between, never in the ends. Some would say it's in the gray spectrum

[ClickBuster]

Fuck I lost the message by clicking on the back button by mistake. So again...

IMHO in 90% of the time there're 3 types of buyers:

1. Noobs - that have no previous buying experience
2. Savvy buyers - looking for serious support of the product they're buying
3. Dedicated surfers - these're the people bookmarking your sites

The last 2 types are what I'd refer to as quality traffic and both of them require content quality, not quantity.

Buyers are not interested in free porn. They need sources to find what's worth watching and what's not. They hold account of the time they spend looking for quality, which is why they usually stick to using a bunch of selected and verified sources, instead of browsing tons of free galleries.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, I certainly don't think that I know everything and I would greatly appreciate any correction if required.

[Tommy]

My site dont suck

in fact i have always thought its like the best out there

nobody puts up more movie links in a day then I do
http://www.tommys-bookmarks.com/movie.shtml

just scroll through the new section

in fact i bet you could lump a bunch of LLs or tgps together and I would still be putting up more movie links

[Greenguy]

Originally Posted by Tommy

...nobody puts up more movie links in a day then I do
http://www.tommys-bookmarks.com/movie.shtml...

You're sorta helping to prove my point You income model is linking to your own galleries/free sites as well as those of other webmasters. How does that fit into what I think we will now refer to as "tube sites"?

(and your site doesn't suck - I tell friends to go there instead if mine )

[Kinky]

I voted yes, I support porn, competition or not, the only porn I would ever not support involves underage stuff...

all they are doing is giving away better free porn than we are via a different business model, it might piss you off but that is what they are doing.

it's already been concluded that they have a right to exist, so as an adult webmaster community should we only support our own exact way of adult webmastering, and only when we don't think it will harm our bank accounts?

full file sharing among surfers isn't new by any means, it is just getting easier for them to share their collections now, and better some tube sites run by people in the industry than P2P sharing that is spreading viruses and malware all over the world and underground file sharing sites where all the illegal stuff gets mixed in with all of our legal stuff and BAM! the adult industry is a bunch of dirty CP pushing scumbags... it doesn't matter where the porn comes from, it matters where it ends up because we get the blame for all of it and any outlet that can be policed by the industry is a good one IMO

[Useless]

Originally Posted by Kinky Jones

it's already been concluded that they have a right to exist, so as an adult webmaster community should we only support our own exact way of adult webmastering, and only when we don't think it will harm our bank accounts?

Well, yes. This isn't a chamber of commerce.

[Greenguy]

Originally Posted by Maj. Stress

I think if an adult tube type site got as popular as "you tube", it could draw more negative publicity to our industry...

Not that it's an accurate gauge, but go look at pornotube.com on Alexa - it's already very popular.

Originally Posted by Toby

It's the surfer upload part that I have issue with. Regardless of whether the site is "controlled" by "people in the industry" or not. Due to the sheer numbers there is simply no way to effectively police all of that content.

That's their problem (and hopefully the police it enough so that they don't get sued)

Originally Posted by Kinky Jones

...I guess maybe GG needs to elaborate on what he means by support, send them free traffic and links, no, treat people who like or use them bad simply for that fact, well I vote no to that too....

After I read you're 1st post, I realized that "support" has more than one meaning.

Of course I support their right to do it, but I will not support them by helping to find scripts or ads or programs that might want to use it.

Why would I (and 75% of the board members that voted) want to help/assist a concept that would negatively effect our current business models?

[Jim]

Tommy, what is the maximum length of a movie clip you will accept? I think that is the biggest difference. You can have a ton of movies as long as they are short enough to make a surfer want more.

[ClickBuster]

LOL!

I'm from Bulgaria, a country from the Ex-Soviet Block. I haven't lived enough under communism to argue about it, but I do know that this thread reminds me a lot about it.

[plateman]

it dont take much to see if those sites grow and spawn new sites that it's gonna kill us affiliates

its bad enough we gotta post free porn to generate traffic

now we have to compete with a tube site that has people giving away more porn for the hell of it...

ratios are bad enough anymore, and if you do find a good site that converts good it don't last its getting harder and harder to see sales anymore

how would a big traffic site like tommys and the hun would "like" to loose half there traffic cause those tube sites have grown and spawned and have clips 8 to 15 min long....those tube sites would have some serious hosting bill but they would have tons of traffic to sell spots and have ads to and rake in the bucks for the owners

then all of the 1000s of people like us suffer with worse ratios and lower traffic cause we cant compete with them

also you could say those tube site surfers are freeloaders??

how many surfers come to our sites and say to themselfs "today I am gonna join a site" hardly any but a good site sells the surfer a membership

those tube sites are just another way to loose sales and traffic to the big money people that put those sites up!!! you think the guys that put up youtube and porntube were poor, they had money and backing imo

[Toby]

It's the surfer upload part that I have issue with. Regardless of whether the site is "controlled" by "people in the industry" or not. Due to the sheer numbers there is simply no way to effectively police all of that content.

[Kinky]

so we should openly ridicule everybody involved with tube porn on GG&Jim then??? just because they have a different business model?

this isn't about whether you like/dislike tube sites, it's about running off people who came to this community looking for help...

one person asked about a script for sharing, you could do alot of cool things with a script like that and who knows wtf they were gonna do with it, and why shouldn't they be able to find a script?

somebody asked about advertising for a tube site, and XXXJay posted here because he probably knows that this isn't just a LL/TGP board and that some people here who own/run programs and sites might want a different source of traffic...

which part of that should they be run off for, what am I missing? feel free to hate tube sites into the ground if you want but why hate on the people just for being associated with them in some way, shape, or form, hell even just asking about them? I hate "porn blogs" to no end but I don't treat people that blog, or in this industry make what i call "lie logs" to attract surfers...

I guess maybe GG needs to elaborate on what he means by support, send them free traffic and links, no, treat people who like or use them bad simply for that fact, well I vote no to that too....

[DangerDave]

As long as there is lots of gagging and abuse.... I am all for it! |

DD

[Jim]

Gonzo
I have to admit, out of most of them, pornotube seems to be doing it right. There seems to less than 40 second video clips vs the 10 min clips I saw yesterday on lesser "tube" sites.

I did just see some 1.5 min clips. But still, way short of the 10 min clips from yesterday. And, I have not found anything other than sponsor content. Of course there are way too many clips to look at them all.

[GonZo]

Originally Posted by Jim

Gonzo
I have to admit, out of most of them, pornotube seems to be doing it right. There seems to less than 40 second video clips vs the 10 min clips I saw yesterday on lesser "tube" sites.

I did just see some 1.5 min clips. But still, way short of the 10 min clips from yesterday. And, I have not found anything other than sponsor content. Of course there are way too many clips to look at them all.

Pornotube is a very powerful tool for those that want to learn how to use it properly. If your a site / program owner I encourage you to contact your AEBN rep to find out how they can put it to work for you.

I know there was a plan to eliminate all the long video clips and stolen content.

[Greenguy]

Originally Posted by GonZo

Pornotube is a very powerful tool for those that want to learn how to use it properly. If your a site / program owner I encourage you to contact your AEBN rep to find out how they can put it to work for you...

Great. Thanks a lot. Thanks for posting the ONE FUCKING THING I WAS TRYING TO AVOID DOING ON THE BOARD.

[spazlabz]

Here is an idea that maybe we should consider trying before condemning this type of marketing outright.

Would any of you be interested in using a clone of this type of thing if it was a hosted one by your sponsor? Lets say with advertisements all over the pages for the various sites the sponsor has and all with your link code automatically in every link.

This way the viral video thing is there but it is all hosted, you just direct your traffic there and the sponsors would be responsible for the duration of the clips and how each is pushed.


spaz

[Useless]

Originally Posted by spazlabz

Would any of you be interested in using a clone of this type of thing if it was a hosted one by your sponsor? Lets say with advertisements all over the pages for the various sites the sponsor has and all with your link code automatically in every link.

Not at all.

I don't intend on sending surfers to any SINGLE page where they can be easily fed all the free movies they need.

Here's the gauntlet - slip it on. I challenge all sponsors who think tube sites are a good marketing concept to create your own such clone. Pack it full of your movie clips. I don't care if they're 15 seconds or 150 seconds. Push your traffic to that for a few months and watch your ROI drop. Go for it! What you'll discover is that surfers sit there from 10-60 minutes at a time. And you'll see a much lower click-thru ratio than that of TGP galleries or free sites. Much, much lower. (Just don't ask me to help you with bandwidth bill.) If you're still willing to ask affiliates to send traffic to it AFTER your own in-house tests, I'll assume you have great big balls simply packed full of crazy juice.

Also, make sure you hire the same non-English speaking designers to create your ads as you do on your hosted galleries.

[Toby]

Originally Posted by Useless Warrior

Not at all.

I don't intend on sending surfers to any SINGLE page where they can be easily fed all the free movies they need.

Here's the gauntlet - slip it on. I challenge all sponsors who think tube sites are a good marketing concept to create your own such clone. Pack it full of your movie clips. I don't care if they're 15 seconds or 150 seconds. Push your traffic to that for a few months and watch your ROI drop. Go for it! What you'll discover is that surfers sit there from 10-60 minutes at a time. And you'll see a much lower click-thru ratio than that of TGP galleries or free sites. Much, much lower. (Just don't ask me to help you with bandwidth bill.) If you're still willing to ask affiliates to send traffic to it AFTER your own in-house tests, I'll assume you have great big balls simply packed full of crazy juice.

Also, make sure you hire the same non-English speaking designers to create your ads as you do on your hosted galleries.

|gabbo| |gabbo| |gabbo| |gabbo| |halfgabbo

[ClickBuster]

Originally Posted by Useless Warrior

Not at all.

I don't intend on sending surfers to any SINGLE page where they can be easily fed all the free movies they need.

Here's the gauntlet - slip it on. I challenge all sponsors who think tube sites are a good marketing concept to create your own such clone. Pack it full of your movie clips. I don't care if they're 15 seconds or 150 seconds. Push your traffic to that for a few months and watch your ROI drop. Go for it! What you'll discover is that surfers sit there from 10-60 minutes at a time. And you'll see a much lower click-thru ratio than that of TGP galleries or free sites. Much, much lower. (Just don't ask me to help you with bandwidth bill.) If you're still willing to ask affiliates to send traffic to it AFTER your own in-house tests, I'll assume you have great big balls simply packed full of crazy juice.

Also, make sure you hire the same non-English speaking designers to create your ads as you do on your hosted galleries.

How can you be 100% sure about that, since the vids on most of the Tube sites push different domains, watermarked in the video or after that? I bet that many of the potential customers type in the domain name of the site without going thru any ref codes and such.

I think the best way to find out is to start publishing vids promoting your own domain and see how that converts.