Do we, as an adult webmaster community, oppose supporting adult versions of YouTube?

[Useless]

Originally Posted by ClickBuster

I think the best way to find out is to start publishing vids promoting your own domain and see how that converts.

It's all about the ROI, or lack there of. Sure, they'll be a limited amount of type-in traffic. Everything I've read about tube sites reports of a struggle to stay afloat. Can they be profitable? Of course. But the ROI is typically much lower than that of other mediums.

I truly fear for the sponsor's wallet that decides to launch a hosted tube clone for affiliate traffic. If you're paying out 50-60% or worse - $35PPS - you'll find bandwidth costs, even in this age of cheap BW, to be horribly cumbersome. Click-thru-wise, it'll potentially have a lower value than those damnable surfer boards where they post 25 hosted vid galleries in a single post. The surfer gets all he/she needs [of a site's content] in one spot.

[Greenguy]

Originally Posted by spazlabz

Here is an idea that maybe we should consider trying before condemning this type of marketing outright....

That's still teaching the surfer how to find a boatload of free movies.

***

Good post Useless

[spazlabz]

Originally Posted by Greenie

That's still teaching the surfer how to find a boatload of free movies.

***

Good post Useless

That wasn't a good post from useless, it was shit. There I said it. I floated an idea, did it have merit or not? Near as I can tell it gave useless the chance to be what he is.

Allow me to quote my own post if I may

Would any of you be interested in using a clone of this type of thing if it was a hosted one by your sponsor? Lets say with advertisements all over the pages for the various sites the sponsor has and all with your link code automatically in every link.

and pay special attention to the words I prefaced the idea with

Would any of you be interested in

it required a yes or no and maybe a bit of an explanation as to why it would be something some would or would not be interested in.

You know, I come here and try to get business done and have since GG&J kicked open its door and I have been proud of my participation in many very high quality threads. But seriously Useless Warriors constant sarcasm and shitty remarks has just worn me down to the point where I just don't have any fucking time for his silliness any longer.

spaz

[spazlabz]

Originally Posted by Greenie

That's still teaching the surfer how to find a boatload of free movies.

***

Good post Useless

cool one point i failed to point out in my last post. exactly how it is different then an MGP, Blog or any other marketing technique we use collectively. It seems that it is another way to put sales text in front of the eyes of traffic. How many free movie clips are on link-o-rama?

i guarantee there is more on your site alone then 8 clips from every single one of the 14 sites we have... well maybe not Virgin Films because that site has a pretty impressive number of videos but STILL. I am talking about another way for affiliates to diversify how they work their traffic and my understanding is there are very few who can marry one method and make really good money in it.

so please tell me how a sponsor hosted tube clone is any worse then LL, MGPs, TGPs or any other method that gives away free content.


spaz

[Greenguy]

Originally Posted by spazlabz

...so please tell me how a sponsor hosted tube clone is any worse then LL, MGPs, TGPs or any other method that gives away free content...

Those are all the same business model.

I'd bet that most surfers don't know the difference between a free site or a gallery or a link list or a tgp or a mgp - they just know where to go to find links to porn.

Tube sites are a completely different business model that teaches the surfer that when they see a tube site, they can get a shitload of movies for free.

If you wanted to open one up & attach an affiliate program to it, go nuts. I would not promote it, but I understand why you'd want to do it.

Useless's post is probably how most (currently 75% of us) feel right now.

Out of the 7 YES votes, 5 are people affiliated with paysites/programs - that's fine by me - I'm not gonna help you get a tube site off the ground, but I'm not bashing anyone for exploring different ways to generate revenue (just like I would not bash a program for taking an ad out in a magazine)

[emmanuelle]

Originally Posted by Greenie

Out of the 7 YES votes, 5 are people affiliated with paysites/programs - that's fine by me -

I voted yes, and it has nothing to do with having paysites of my own. I feel much the same way as Tommy posted. If I support free porn whatsoever, I'd be a hypocrite to come down on newer free porn enterprises that don't necessarily fit my business model. I have trouble with the concept of it being ok as long as it's within X # of parameters. As posted above, free porn = free porn = free porn

[cutclips]

Originally Posted by spazlabz

so please tell me how a sponsor hosted tube clone is any worse then LL, MGPs, TGPs or any other method that gives away free content.
spaz

because free clips that run over a minute are the very thing the user is looking for. long enough to spank. free streaming video is very desirable.

you can slice traffic up into quality traffic, and parse that into categories based on buying behavior, but the fact of the matter is, highly motivated buyers are outnumbered by the vast amount of users looking not to buy, but to spank. that means the tube sites are catering to a larger demo.
that's how they are worse. they get to the ends by jumping the usual means.
the real issue here is not about free content, but about the quantity of free content. a free ten minute clip is more detrimental to affiliate models than two gallery pages with five or six jpgs.

[LowryBigwood]

Originally Posted by spazlabz

Would any of you be interested in using a clone of this type of thing if it was a hosted one by your sponsor? Lets say with advertisements all over the pages for the various sites the sponsor has and all with your link code automatically in every link.

This way the viral video thing is there but it is all hosted, you just direct your traffic there and the sponsors would be responsible for the duration of the clips and how each is pushed.


spaz

Ok, I first voted "no" but only b/c of user uploaded content/2257 worries. I do not have anything against the technology or people giving away more free clips, and I really don't see how others can sit here and talk about giving away an unlimitited supply of movies. WTF? You can get that now, no problem...

Anyways, as for myself, yes I would be interested in hosted / shared movies with the viral effect you are describing. What's not to like about that from a webmasters point of view? I do understand it is a different business model, but I for one am not afraid of changing with the times.

Also, I really don't think the bandwidth concern for the sponsor bothers me one bit. It's not my bill, so knock yourself out. I'll try promoting it most likely.

[sabin]

An adult youtube is bound to happen, rather than fight it, lets just saturate it with 20 sec clicks with our urls and report stolen full length videos. At the end of the day, its another source of traffic.

[spazlabz]

Originally Posted by sabin

An adult youtube is bound to happen, rather than fight it, lets just saturate it with 20 sec clicks with our urls and report stolen full length videos. At the end of the day, its another source of traffic.

Its already happened and been around for a i think a year or better


spaz

[bluebrit]

I voted no to this and probably always would. Even though it’s a source for free porn and i could add links to my sites through it, it’s too extensive and it’s probably going to be more than enough for most surfers to get off on. That being the case their never going to pay for something they can get free. Taking a step back though why do i feel like that?

Most people who have any interest in porn either from curiosity or from a real interest in buying, when purchasing their first pc will by the end of the first day have looked for porn to see how much of it is out there.

Chances are they would just type in sex or porn, tits or twats... makes no difference, they're going to get plenty of links to the content they want to see. If the tube is the one of the first places they come across they will be so flooded with free links they're unlikely to ever look anywhere else and with the amount of free content available they probably wouldn't bother paying for something they can get there for free. While i'm all for advertising porn and the availability of it, I don't want to see so much free porn given away. It's bad for all concerned when at the end of the day were looking to get surfers to pay for the content. Take this further and you will get to a point where virtually every niche will be available free of charge and once you reach that point you may as well pack your bags and find a new business plan or go bust. Free porn is the perfect tool to advertise a pay sites potential to the surfer in the hope of getting that all elusive sale because they want the content, their curious as hell to see more, or their genuinely into it and it’s a very unusual niche. Giving them a supply of endless links to free porn for that category or niche can't be productive if it's never going to generate sales. You want them curious, turned on and willing to buy, not swamped with a plethora of choice regarding which link they should look at next. Curiosity and a hardon are what sell, if their getting their kicks from thousands of free links to images or videos where is the sale in that? Looking at battle hardened surfers who have already paid for content it works slightly differently. They have already seen the sponsor site and know what’s available. They know what they want and they know where to get it. Again you find that surfer going to free porn through the tube and even though their not getting exclusive content neither are they tied to one sponsors content but they gain access too virtually all of them. The quality may not be as good and the length of movies may not be as long but given the diversity of choice they could stay on the free porn a long time before getting bored and deciding to pay for it once again if ever. They could decide I get my kicks here and I get porn movies on cable so why do I need to buy more porn? Either way it’s not hard to see this leading to a probable drop in sales both for affiliates and sponsors alike.

Maybe i'm wrong in the way i look at this... just my 2cents worth.

[tickler]

Still undecided yet, so I haven't voted.

The ideal of sponsor hosted tubes has me thinking that maybe something along the concept of ImageVenue, FileCloud, etc.

I post a thumb in a surfer forum, and they goto a page with a sample clip. filled with ads with my affiliate codes might be interesting.

[oldbrad]

I support the right for each person to make their own decisions for their own site, but dont think it's going to be good for affiliates to the same sites. It is, however, better than the rapidshare sites listing hundreds of full length 30 minute movies.

[tickler]

Originally Posted by oldbrad

It is, however, better than the rapidshare sites listing hundreds of full length 30 minute movies.

Full length 30 minute movies. I remember a discussion on the SoloGirlBoad about a few WMs asking Steve Lightspeed if there might be any bounties for identifying different places that were full site/DVD scrapes.

Hell, if I want to check out a new sponsor, I'll probably check out some of their DVDs(via RS or clones) before I start throwing PPC traffic at them. A lot of sponsors don't give you that much access if you are a newbie just asking. I don't know how many sponsors I have asked over the years to give me screen caps of their members area to use as an enticement for for surfers to join, and been turned down.

[JoeBlack]

Their will always be someone to support these programs so it doesnt really matter what we think. If these programs make the users money there going to use them plain and simple. Everyone here can say their against it but then go set up a pornotube account under another name and domain. Business models and all these things sound great but if one of these webmasters needs money to pay for food or meds or whatever for there family there going to use these sites and there is nothing we can or should do about it.

Webmasters went from putting random links up to sponsor sites to making picture link list and now there movie link list who decides whats next and ok?

This is a business and a great one and I hope it last forever but if we cant adapt to the changes that are coming then I dont know what we will do.

I do agree tho that some people are showing way to much but like I said theres nothing we can do about it.

So my stand point on it is how can you stop the internet ?

[walrus]

I voted no.

It's not that I think adult video sharing sites are bad and couldn't be an advantageous business model.

I just don't see this board, this community, as the proper place for it.

[Useless]

hy·poc·ri·sy (hĭ-pŏk'rĭ-sē)

-The practice of professing beliefs, feelings, or virtues that one does not hold or possess; falseness.
-An act or instance of such falseness.
-A show or expression of feelings or beliefs one does not actually hold or possess.
-deceitfulness, pretense
-Insincerity by pretending to have qualities or beliefs not really held.
-An expression of agreement that is not supported by real conviction.

There is absolutely NOTHING HYPOCRITICAL about disagreeing with, and not supporting, a different business model. It would be hypocritical if we, while never acknowledging that our minds had changed, quietly launched our own tube site or purchased advertising space on someone else's.

Free Porn is a business model. Not a philosophy, nor a belief system. If we all agreed with everything our fellow webmasters did, this board would be comprised of only a Good Morning thread, and even that would be dull. There are a LOT of concepts/practices in this business that I do not like, and I'll be damned if anyone is going to attempt to goat me in to feeling differently. Hypocrite is a loaded word. It is being used incorrectly and unfairly.

[Preacher]

it's goad

[Useless]

Originally Posted by Preacher

it's goad

Prick!

[JaceXXX]

new things come out and people evolve every day, if you don't take the new things and make them your own and profit off them in your own ways you will fall behind

the times are changing, you can either take shit and mold it RIGHT NOW, or fall behind and wonder what happened down the road

[Linkster]

The problem here is that we are comparing apples and oranges - something like Jays site where the uploads are private and linked to a sponsor with an affiliate code are completely different than a public upload site like youtube where anyone can post anything and the revenue comes from page - loads using something like Adsense.

So voting on this is kinda like voting on whether you like hosted free sites competing with your free sites that you submit to a LL

[VicD]

Originally Posted by Linkster

The problem here is that we are comparing apples and oranges - something like Jays site where the uploads are private and linked to a sponsor with an affiliate code are completely different than a public upload site like youtube where anyone can post anything and the revenue comes from page - loads using something like Adsense.

So voting on this is kinda like voting on whether you like hosted free sites competing with your free sites that you submit to a LL

Good point, it's not just a black and white choice, it's way more detailed, so i voted YES/NO

[LeRoy]

I am not for them. I uploaded some trailers and got a little traffic from one site. I found some Zango links on another site I used. Then I stopped going to them. I think there is always going to be someone with longer clips on the Tube sites. Longer clips are not good at all. There needs to be a 30 second rule or something.

[Greenguy]

Originally Posted by xxxjay

...Shame on you for using your admin powers to post on the thread who voted how. If the goverment was so willy nilly with their voter information as you are, even less people would come out to vote...

No I didn't. I posted this:

Originally Posted by Greenie

...Out of the 7 YES votes, 5 are people affiliated with paysites/programs...

This isn't some secret ballot kinda thing & all I did was post what group 5 of the 7 votes (at the time) belonged to.

Originally Posted by xxxjay

...Really, my site is a "fake tube" site...

It's still a tube site

Originally Posted by xxxjay

...Just becasue I am not the "Johny Appleseed of free porn" doesn't mean I'm a sad case and besides where would the money for all these people owning linklists and submitting sites come from if it wasn't for us evil "program owners"?...

Who said program owners were evil? My point is that since you joined OC Cash that has appeared to be your #1 priority. I come to this conclusion based on your participation here on the board, which was much greater before OC Cash came into the picture for you. Be honest on this one: If you had to prioritize the hats you wear (and we all have to do this from time to time) what would come 1st? OC or the Link List?

Originally Posted by xxxjay

...Whoops, excuse the fuck out of me. I arrived at my number by taking the total number of free listings (my guess was somewhere around 20,000) and multiplying it by 10 because each site might have that number of pieces of free content. I guess you got me on the photo technicality...

It's not a technicality - you made an uneducated guess & your numbers were way off from the truth.

Originally Posted by xxxjay

...8400 x 6 = 50400 free movies on LOR divided 316 Free Movies on snizzshare.com = 159 more times free porn online with LOR...

If in the year 2018 if the number of movies on snizzshare is less than 50,400 then you can compare the 2. It's kinda hard to compare an 11 year old site with one that was created 2 weeks ago.

Originally Posted by xxxjay

...Is Google bad becasue it killed Excite? Nope, just offered a better product.

Is Myspace bad becasue it killed Friendster? Is Greenguy and Jim bad beause it killed Adultnetsuprise (oh, that was a good one)?...

You can't compare any of those situation to this one because they are the same business model. I can't see where tube sites are the same business model as LL's & TGP's (other than the "free porn" angle & there's a shitload of "free porn" business models)

Originally Posted by xxxjay

...Better yet, is the internet bad becasue it killed magizine sales? I think everyone can agree it's been good for all of us...

You can compare this one. And I ask you this: do you think magazine companies helped/supported/condoned the internet? I'll agree that many adapted by putting their material online, but it's kinda hard to work the material that's in the LL/TGP/FreeSite/Gallery business model into a tube site.

Originally Posted by xxxjay

...Right as we piss away on this board there is generations of potential adult customers are turning of age that grew up on Web 2.0 platforms like youtube and myspace. They are not going to crawl their way through link-dumps and warning pages like their parents did. They are going to go with something they know and the more it looks like something they are already familiar with the more they will like the site.

At the end of the day, all you are really rallying against is the design of my site, becasue what I am doing isn't anything we both haven't been doing for years:

Putting free porn online.

Things change fast in this game. You can stand back and be bitter that your business model may be becoming obsolete or you can try to keep up with times. Either way those that stay tied to the tracks of Internet circa 2001 will get run over by a train...

It's called progress!

If you want to call me bitter because it doesn't fit into my business model, then fine. I'm bitter.

In the case of snizzshare, I still find it hard to believe that someone that has a very popular Link List would encourage surfers to go to sites that are not in the same business model.

[xxxjay]

Originally Posted by Greenie

No I didn't. I posted this:

This isn't some secret ballot kinda thing & all I did was post what group 5 of the 7 votes (at the time) belonged to.

I still think you abused your power a little. Even Jim thought so on the radio show. It's your world, I'm just living in it.

Originally Posted by Greenie

It's still a tube site

We'll have to agree to disagree then. The way I did it is much more responsible than a real tube site.

Originally Posted by Greenie

Who said program owners were evil? My point is that since you joined OC Cash that has appeared to be your #1 priority. I come to this conclusion based on your participation here on the board, which was much greater before OC Cash came into the picture for you. Be honest on this one: If you had to prioritize the hats you wear (and we all have to do this from time to time) what would come 1st? OC or the Link List?

Well OCCash is a lot more hign profile but I have 2 partners, but my personal sites I own outright. I try not to favor either. My participation died off when someone (I wonder who?) made what should have been a private business matter public and I became the board whipping boy (even still to this day).

Originally Posted by Greenie

If in the year 2018 if the number of movies on snizzshare is less than 50,400 then you can compare the 2. It's kinda hard to compare an 11 year old site with one that was created 2 weeks ago.

True.

Originally Posted by Greenie

You can't compare any of those situation to this one because they are the same business model. I can't see where tube sites are the same business model as LL's & TGP's (other than the "free porn" angle & there's a shitload of "free porn" business models)

Someone else posted "Free porn is free porn is free porn" and I agree with that pretty much.

Originally Posted by Greenie

You can compare this one. And I ask you this: do you think magazine companies helped/supported/condoned the internet?

They should have...maybe they'd still be on the racks.

Originally Posted by Greenie

If you want to call me bitter because it doesn't fit into my business model, then fine. I'm bitter.

I don't see a big difference. A Ford Model-T was a car and so is a Mecedes Benz s550. The Benz is just evelution at work. They are both still cars.

Originally Posted by Greenie

In the case of snizzshare, I still find it hard to believe that someone that has a very popular Link List would encourage surfers to go to sites that are not in the same business model.

So you are saying that it is part of our job as linklist owners to keep surfers ignorant or everything beside their linklist?

Don't get me wrong, I love linklists. There is a lot of great things about them. The recip links used to work wonders with the search engines and still do to some degree. The traffic filtering is great. Making the surfers work a little harder to get to the porn is great.

However, ther fact is: Younger surfers are going to gravitate toward Web 2.0 type things that they know and, I fear, over time - linklists will just be the dirty magizine in their dad's closet.

I, myself, would rather ride the crest of a wave than paddle feverishly trying to catch up.