Porn MegaBucks says I'm a fraud - Page 2

SheepGuy · 2007-09-08, 08:53 PM

Wow! Thanks guys and gals for the support! It is greatly appreciated. The screenshots for some reason showed up unreadable on my screen, so thanks UW for digging into this for me

This truly is a great community!
Now I'm off to pull some links before I get all happy-weepy like and forgiving

I'm still meeting my lawyer Tuesday.

plateman · 2007-09-08, 08:57 PM

kinda funny thread, whats funny is that now some old shit got kicked up, and a 1000 dollars are owed to murry for an old contest

murry make sure you get your money and pay a few bills and go out on the town on porn mega bucks, be sure and post a screen shot enjoying your winnings

Lisa · 2007-09-09, 01:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DangerDave

Lisa, just get Bill to pay Murray the 1K, it's owed to him and the onus is on PornMegaBucks is to get it to him... no matter what gets in the way..

DD

Murray was the one who opted to be paid by Amazon gift certificate, which was duly purchased according to his instructions. Given that all of the emails that I hit 'reply' to bounced back at me, it wouldn't surprise me at all if the email address which he asked the gc to be paid to was invalid also.

Debbie won a couple of months later and had her check in less than 3 weeks...

Bobc01 · 2007-09-08, 05:30 PM

Whatever happened to innocent til proven guilty?

Just remember one thing Lisa, we don't need you, but you need us so bare that in mind when you deal with webmasters.

petergg2 · 2007-09-08, 05:31 PM

You should disable that login/password from screenshot - or its promotion for GGJ board members ?

Lisa · 2007-09-08, 06:04 PM

We don't need fraudulent webmasters. Take a look at those screenshots and ask yourself what your reaction would have been.

Remember we are a recurring program...we make money when webmasters make money. We gained nothing from those fraudulent sales, they were all refunded. This is not a case of accusing a webmaster of fraud so we can keep the money generated by the signups...there is none.

Again this was not a personal attack on Sheepguy...I had no idea who the webmaster was/is...and don't care. The sales were fraudulent, and clearly not genuine...so they were refunded and the webmaster axed.

If Paycom comes back to me with an explanation that proves it's not fraud as I've said I'll apologise unreservedly and also notify CCBill.

It was not my intention to harm anyone's reputation for the fun of it. I didn't bring this to the boards.

Maj. Stress · 2007-09-08, 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lisa

We don't need fraudulent webmasters. Take a look at those screenshots and ask yourself what your reaction would have been.

5 credit cards, one ip (located in the US) and 5 different emails 3 of which point to France. My first guess would be someone was testing out some stolen credit card numbers.

sue-fl · 2007-09-09, 12:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maj. Stress

5 credit cards, one ip (located in the US) and 5 different emails 3 of which point to France. My first guess would be someone was testing out some stolen credit card numbers.

Same thing I was thinking after reading all these posts.

I really think it's wrong what has been said and done to SheepGuy and an apology is certainly due to him.

I don't promote you and am glad because if I did I would be pulling links right now

Bobc01 · 2007-09-08, 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lisa

We don't need fraudulent webmasters. Take a look at those screenshots and ask yourself what your reaction would have been.

Remember we are a recurring program...we make money when webmasters make money. We gained nothing from those fraudulent sales, they were all refunded. This is not a case of accusing a webmaster of fraud so we can keep the money generated by the signups...there is none.

Again this was not a personal attack on Sheepguy...I had no idea who the webmaster was/is...and don't care. The sales were fraudulent, and clearly not genuine...so they were refunded and the webmaster axed.

If Paycom comes back to me with an explanation that proves it's not fraud as I've said I'll apologise unreservedly and also notify CCBill.

It was not my intention to harm anyone's reputation for the fun of it. I didn't bring this to the boards.

In that case my reaction would of been to contact the webmaster first off to discuss the issue and go from there along with an investigation straight away with the billing company.

You've treated the guy like shit as if he's some kind of criminal without firm evidence it was him.

To me that has "unprofessional" written all over it.

SheepGuy · 2007-09-08, 07:17 PM

Lisa, how do you define a personal attack?
I include being accused of fraud as a personal attack, and repeatedly through your posts here you have accused me of fraud, referring to me as "the webmaster" or grouped in with "fraudulent webmasters" or whatever.
You have launched a personal attack on my integrity and my reputation as a webmaster who has flown straight for over 10 years now. This is the first time anyone has ever accused me of fraud, a polite term for theft, and yes I am severely pissed off.
I brought it to the board because I will not be accused, convicted, and sentenced for a fraud I did not commit, and quietly say nothing.
You picked the fight by not even consulting me before putting a black mark beside my name.
On the plus side, for your inept handling of this situation, you have certainly picked up some nice publicity for your program.

MrYum · 2007-09-08, 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SheepGuy

You picked the fight by not even consulting me before putting a black mark beside my name.

And therein lies the real crux of the issue at hand.

Wow...simply wow...I would have thought an old school program like PMG would know better

A number of things could be responsible for that pattern. To blindly assume the webmaster is responsible is short-sighted to say the least.

Lisa · 2007-09-09, 12:58 AM

It's fairly clear that few in this thread have ever been responsible for running a program

I have seen this EXACT pattern before, probably 15 or so times in the last 6 years and every single time it's been a 'webmaster' committing the fraud to their own gain.

IF I'm wrong this time, I will apologise as I've said, but it would be a first. The only person who stood to gain from this is the webmaster who would have been paid for the sales had they not been refunded.

Perhaps it's time to wonder who might have wanted this situation to occur...it's certainly not us. But maybe there's someone out there with an agenda against Sheepguy who thought this might be a tidy way to deal with it.

I'm not yet convinced that we haven't been defrauded by a webmaster, but I'm more than prepared to be proven wrong.

As to talking to the webmaster first, what would that prove exactly? Do you really think a dishonest webmaster would just admit to it when questioned? All anyone would do, regardless of their involvement, would be to deny it. So how is one to prove that the denial is based on innocence or further deception?

Toby · 2007-09-09, 01:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lisa

...I'm not yet convinced that we haven't been defrauded by a webmaster, but I'm more than prepared to be proven wrong...

That statement sums up the biggest issue I have with how this has been handled.

You've immediately assumed it was the webmaster that was responsible for the fraudulant signups and have placed the responsibilty on the webmaster to prove otherwise when it should be the other way around.

You should be the one proving that the IPs and emails involved are connected to the webmaster, as it's all but impossible for him to prove the negative.

SheepGuy · 2007-09-09, 01:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lisa

But maybe there's someone out there with an agenda against Sheepguy who thought this might be a tidy way to deal with it.

Funny. In the last 10 years in this biz I have made 1 enemy. A Swiss fellow who stole the design and images from a few of my sites way back in '99. That situation was resolved shortly after it was discovered, and I haven't heard from the guy since. Since then, I really can't recall anyone in the biz being pissed off at me. At least not enough to steal credit cards and try to frame me with a pissant sponsor like the one you represent.

A nice grasp at straws on your part, but wouldn't it be easier to admit that you fucked up? Not that it would necessarily be enough at this point since I'm still not sure what economic damage your reckless accusations have caused me, if any, but I'll be looking into that.

Keep talking, keep slandering me. I'm beyond being pissed off now, I'm enjoying watching you dig yourself deeper into a legal shithole.

picXX · 2007-09-09, 06:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lisa

As to talking to the webmaster first, what would that prove exactly?

Maybe the fact that you are taking youre buiseness partners seriously?
You are not doing affiliates a favour to let them promote youre program.
It is a 2 way buiseness, so a 2 way communication should be in place.
To assume that any affiliate/webmaster is fraudelent every time something happens, without even trying to investigate or communicate, is like shooting yourself with a silverbullet in the ass.

GonZo · 2007-09-09, 11:46 AM

DAMN!!!

Mr Spock · 2007-09-09, 12:03 PM

The main problem here seems to me to be PornMegaBuck's attitude to affiliate webmasters, accusing a wm of fraud without any communication and secondly Lisa's arrogant attitude in addressing the issue here, she just doesn't get that their could have been a better way to deal with the matter.

You say that you have seen this type of transaction 15 times in the past 6 years, which I don't think is that many given the volumes of transactions that are processed, so in general I think it is better to assume that the wm you are dealing with is honest.

Guess what, I'll never sign up with this bunch of clowns and I am sure there are dozens of webmasters who feel the same way.

Sheepguy is a respected and well liked webmaster and I don't believe that he would engage in fraudulent transactions.

spacemanspiff · 2007-09-09, 01:44 PM

Whenever I'm looking at program and thinking of signing up, I usually come over here and do a search to see what experiences other folks have had with the program. Anyone else do the same?

Anyone want to venture a guess how much Lisa has cost her company in the name of "protecting" it?

Llam4 · 2007-09-09, 09:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lisa

I have seen this EXACT pattern before, probably 15 or so times in the last 6 years and every single time it's been a 'webmaster' committing the fraud to their own gain.

Am I the only one concerned by this?

If the other 15 "fraudsters" were given the same courtesy (or lack thereof), who's to say which if any of them were really attempting fraud?

Lisa · 2007-09-09, 01:33 AM

My assumption may be wrong, but it's based on many years experience with this exact issue. Call it learned behaviour, if you will.

If this is not fraud on the part of the webmaster it would be the VERY FIRST TIME that it is not the case.

And as I have repeated ad nauseum, if that is not the case, I will apologise, but I was not prepared to put our processing at risk by allowing those memberships to be charged back.

I've asked Paycom to investigate as they are the ones who processed the transactions. I haven't asked Sheepguy to prove anything at all.

If someone wanted to just try out some stolen credit cards they could have done it on the site without a referrer code...the use of a referrer code immediately places the suspicion, rightly or wrongly, on the webmaster, because they are the one who stands to gain.

The transactions are clearly fraudulent, no question there. The fact that they were all done by one specific reseller connects them to him immediately, far more definitively that any IP or free email address does.

Toby · 2007-09-09, 01:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lisa

The fact that they were all done by one specific reseller connects them to him immediately, far more definitively that any IP or free email address does.

WRONG!!! It simply proves that the person that truly is responsible had visited the site recently via one of SheepGuy's reseller links and had a cookie set in their browser. At that point returning to the site directly would have still credited any sales to the saved referral code.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lisa

...but I'm more than prepared to be proven wrong.

That sure looks to me like asking SheepGuy to prove you wrong.

This whole thing makes no sense. If a webmaster was going to go to the trouble to make fraudulent sales under their own referral code, why do so on a revshare program with a max sale of $29.95?

5 x $29.95 x 60% = $89.85. For an established webmaster, that's chump change.

SheepGuy · 2007-09-09, 02:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toby

5 x $29.95 x 60% = $89.85. For an established webmaster, that's chump change.

Exactly. Another reason why this is so infuriatingly stupid.
What kind of a moron would I be to risk 10 years of full-time self employment in a biz where your reputation is everything, for peanuts

Fuck, if I was that stupid I'd have to go out and get a real job, and I really couldn't handle the idea of a boss. I'm just not made for that anymore.

murray · 2007-09-09, 01:38 AM

yes I did ask to get payed via an amazon certificate, that is not the issue. by the way lets not talk about who has email issues

ICQ Message
got your mail...i sent your info on to bill and wasn't aware he hadn't paid you yet

he hasn't answered the last few mails i've sent him tho so now i'm starting to wonder if i've gotten caught in his spam filters

i'm gonna try calling him this morning and find out what is up

So yeah please show me this recipt from Amazon. Incase you wernt aware I went over your head to Bill to get this sorted and it never did, even after he promised to get in touch with amazon.

also

How does a person who relies on the web for their income repeatedly have issues with contacting their boss?

Lisa · 2007-09-09, 01:41 AM

Give me an email address that works Murray and I'll forward it to you now.

Lisa · 2007-09-09, 02:03 AM

I'm not yet convinced I have fucked up.

You're all acting under the assumption that I knew that pmb16985 was an established webmaster to whom that money would be chump change. Wrong.

THIS HAS BEEN DONE IN THIS EXACT SAME WAY BEFORE. FRAUDSTERS TARGET RECURRING PROGRAMS BECAUSE OF THAT EXACT ASSUMPTION, THAT WE WILL NOT BE SUSPICIOUS BASED ON THE SEEMINGLY SMALL EARNINGS. TO SOME PEOPLE THAT IS NOT A SMALL AMOUNT OF MONEY. IN FACT, DUPLICATED OVER MANY PROGRAMS IT CAN REALLY ADD UP.

To us, pmb16985 was a webmaster who had signed up with us earlier this year and sent less than 3000 unique hits to the program. This does not scream established webmaster.

I'm leaving this in Paycom's hands and will wait to hear what their investigations reveal.

And Toby...we don't use cookies.

2007-09-08, 08:53 PM	#1
SheepGuy It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Canada Posts: 2,527	Wow! Thanks guys and gals for the support! It is greatly appreciated. The screenshots for some reason showed up unreadable on my screen, so thanks UW for digging into this for me This truly is a great community! Now I'm off to pull some links before I get all happy-weepy like and forgiving I'm still meeting my lawyer Tuesday. __________________ If the Environment was a bank, they would have saved it by now.

2007-09-08, 08:57 PM	#2
plateman What can I do - I was born this way LOL Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: ohio Posts: 3,086	kinda funny thread, whats funny is that now some old shit got kicked up, and a 1000 dollars are owed to murry for an old contest murry make sure you get your money and pay a few bills and go out on the town on porn mega bucks, be sure and post a screen shot enjoying your winnings __________________ Submit to: Porn O Plenty XXX Links Reality Here

2007-09-08, 07:17 PM	#10
SheepGuy It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Canada Posts: 2,527	Lisa, how do you define a personal attack? I include being accused of fraud as a personal attack, and repeatedly through your posts here you have accused me of fraud, referring to me as "the webmaster" or grouped in with "fraudulent webmasters" or whatever. You have launched a personal attack on my integrity and my reputation as a webmaster who has flown straight for over 10 years now. This is the first time anyone has ever accused me of fraud, a polite term for theft, and yes I am severely pissed off. I brought it to the board because I will not be accused, convicted, and sentenced for a fraud I did not commit, and quietly say nothing. You picked the fight by not even consulting me before putting a black mark beside my name. On the plus side, for your inept handling of this situation, you have certainly picked up some nice publicity for your program. __________________ If the Environment was a bank, they would have saved it by now. Last edited by SheepGuy; 2007-09-08 at 07:29 PM..

2007-09-09, 01:44 PM	#18
spacemanspiff Where there's a will, I want to be in it. Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Looz-e-anna Posts: 1,015	Whenever I'm looking at program and thinking of signing up, I usually come over here and do a search to see what experiences other folks have had with the program. Anyone else do the same? Anyone want to venture a guess how much Lisa has cost her company in the name of "protecting" it? __________________ Submit your free sites to Free Sex Pics

2007-09-08, 05:30 PM	#4
Bobc01 Banned Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Hell Posts: 817	Whatever happened to innocent til proven guilty? Just remember one thing Lisa, we don't need you, but you need us so bare that in mind when you deal with webmasters.

2007-09-08, 05:31 PM	#5
petergg2 Are you sure you're an accredited and honored pornographer? Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 63	You should disable that login/password from screenshot - or its promotion for GGJ board members ?

2007-09-08, 06:04 PM	#6
Lisa I'm going to the backseat of my car with the woman I love, and I won't be back for TEN MINUTES Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 83	We don't need fraudulent webmasters. Take a look at those screenshots and ask yourself what your reaction would have been. Remember we are a recurring program...we make money when webmasters make money. We gained nothing from those fraudulent sales, they were all refunded. This is not a case of accusing a webmaster of fraud so we can keep the money generated by the signups...there is none. Again this was not a personal attack on Sheepguy...I had no idea who the webmaster was/is...and don't care. The sales were fraudulent, and clearly not genuine...so they were refunded and the webmaster axed. If Paycom comes back to me with an explanation that proves it's not fraud as I've said I'll apologise unreservedly and also notify CCBill. It was not my intention to harm anyone's reputation for the fun of it. I didn't bring this to the boards.

2007-09-09, 12:58 AM	#12
Lisa I'm going to the backseat of my car with the woman I love, and I won't be back for TEN MINUTES Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 83	It's fairly clear that few in this thread have ever been responsible for running a program I have seen this EXACT pattern before, probably 15 or so times in the last 6 years and every single time it's been a 'webmaster' committing the fraud to their own gain. IF I'm wrong this time, I will apologise as I've said, but it would be a first. The only person who stood to gain from this is the webmaster who would have been paid for the sales had they not been refunded. Perhaps it's time to wonder who might have wanted this situation to occur...it's certainly not us. But maybe there's someone out there with an agenda against Sheepguy who thought this might be a tidy way to deal with it. I'm not yet convinced that we haven't been defrauded by a webmaster, but I'm more than prepared to be proven wrong. As to talking to the webmaster first, what would that prove exactly? Do you really think a dishonest webmaster would just admit to it when questioned? All anyone would do, regardless of their involvement, would be to deny it. So how is one to prove that the denial is based on innocence or further deception?

2007-09-09, 11:46 AM	#16
GonZo You can now put whatever you want in this space :) Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Atlanta,Ga Posts: 893	DAMN!!!

2007-09-09, 12:03 PM	#17
Mr Spock You can now put whatever you want in this space :) Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Vulcan Posts: 695	The main problem here seems to me to be PornMegaBuck's attitude to affiliate webmasters, accusing a wm of fraud without any communication and secondly Lisa's arrogant attitude in addressing the issue here, she just doesn't get that their could have been a better way to deal with the matter. You say that you have seen this type of transaction 15 times in the past 6 years, which I don't think is that many given the volumes of transactions that are processed, so in general I think it is better to assume that the wm you are dealing with is honest. Guess what, I'll never sign up with this bunch of clowns and I am sure there are dozens of webmasters who feel the same way. Sheepguy is a respected and well liked webmaster and I don't believe that he would engage in fraudulent transactions.

2007-09-09, 01:33 AM	#20
Lisa I'm going to the backseat of my car with the woman I love, and I won't be back for TEN MINUTES Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 83	My assumption may be wrong, but it's based on many years experience with this exact issue. Call it learned behaviour, if you will. If this is not fraud on the part of the webmaster it would be the VERY FIRST TIME that it is not the case. And as I have repeated ad nauseum, if that is not the case, I will apologise, but I was not prepared to put our processing at risk by allowing those memberships to be charged back. I've asked Paycom to investigate as they are the ones who processed the transactions. I haven't asked Sheepguy to prove anything at all. If someone wanted to just try out some stolen credit cards they could have done it on the site without a referrer code...the use of a referrer code immediately places the suspicion, rightly or wrongly, on the webmaster, because they are the one who stands to gain. The transactions are clearly fraudulent, no question there. The fact that they were all done by one specific reseller connects them to him immediately, far more definitively that any IP or free email address does.

2007-09-09, 01:38 AM	#23
murray My wife is not a doobie to be passed around! On our wedding day I promised to bogart her for life! Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Australia Posts: 242	yes I did ask to get payed via an amazon certificate, that is not the issue. by the way lets not talk about who has email issues ICQ Message got your mail...i sent your info on to bill and wasn't aware he hadn't paid you yet he hasn't answered the last few mails i've sent him tho so now i'm starting to wonder if i've gotten caught in his spam filters i'm gonna try calling him this morning and find out what is up So yeah please show me this recipt from Amazon. Incase you wernt aware I went over your head to Bill to get this sorted and it never did, even after he promised to get in touch with amazon. also How does a person who relies on the web for their income repeatedly have issues with contacting their boss?

2007-09-09, 01:41 AM	#24
Lisa I'm going to the backseat of my car with the woman I love, and I won't be back for TEN MINUTES Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 83	Give me an email address that works Murray and I'll forward it to you now.

2007-09-09, 02:03 AM	#25
Lisa I'm going to the backseat of my car with the woman I love, and I won't be back for TEN MINUTES Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 83	I'm not yet convinced I have fucked up. You're all acting under the assumption that I knew that pmb16985 was an established webmaster to whom that money would be chump change. Wrong. THIS HAS BEEN DONE IN THIS EXACT SAME WAY BEFORE. FRAUDSTERS TARGET RECURRING PROGRAMS BECAUSE OF THAT EXACT ASSUMPTION, THAT WE WILL NOT BE SUSPICIOUS BASED ON THE SEEMINGLY SMALL EARNINGS. TO SOME PEOPLE THAT IS NOT A SMALL AMOUNT OF MONEY. IN FACT, DUPLICATED OVER MANY PROGRAMS IT CAN REALLY ADD UP. To us, pmb16985 was a webmaster who had signed up with us earlier this year and sent less than 3000 unique hits to the program. This does not scream established webmaster. I'm leaving this in Paycom's hands and will wait to hear what their investigations reveal. And Toby...we don't use cookies.