Maybe I am just grumpy but....

Pagan · 2009-05-22, 02:45 AM

Whatever happened to ENJOYING the diversity? Look at some of the hate and discontent in the threads here and elsewhere, or sit back in the chat room at times and you will see what I mean. Sorry for the rant, but this has been building up for a while now and I have just plain had enough.

I think it seriously started several years ago when people started the outcry over one group having a celebration. I remember vividly working for Lucent Technologies about 9 years ago around Christmas. They had the audacity to send around a memo outlining about a dozen things we could not do to decorate (No angels = religious, no Santa = Commercial, no trees = possible broken ornaments, even plastic ones, etc.) Instead of using that wonderous time of year to SHARE our diversity, and learn about another culture, we were told no, you can do this, it might offend someone. We could not even have a multi-cultural potluck because someone might not like a dish that was brought. Puh-leeeze!

Look at the backlash over the recent US election. If you did not vote for Obama, you are branded as a racist. If you dare to speak out against something he is promoting, like this bailout, you are either a racist or bigot. What? Where is the polite freedom of speech we fought for? Am I no longer allowed to say I disagree with something because it is a bad idea? Gee, yes, let's release non-US citizens that were caught in a warzone (not on US soil), back into the US proper so that they can continue to wage war against us. We are such a nice country, see? But, if I disagree with this, does that make me a racist? Why are you branding me with a hateful title if I don't agree with you? Can't we just agree to disagree and respect each other for having different viewpoints?

One guy in my area dared to post about his experience in a local restaurant. He had made reservations for this small pricey place for a very special anniversary dinner, and was there on time. Almost 2 hours after his reservation time and two $40 bottles of wine later, he still had not been seated and ended up leaving without dinner. Yes, there was live music that night and the entertainer is very popular in the area. You would not believe the hate and discontent this man has had heaped on him just because he opened his mouth. Did he deserve it? No. He was sharing his experience in quite polite terms without calling anyone names. And yet because he dared to open his mouth, he was seriously slammed from all sides.

Now it may even sound petty or childish, but this attitude carries over into so many places. Not everyone here logs into the chat room on Saturday afternoon before the radioshow, but I would like to encourage people to do so. Get in and mingle with some of the best webmasters and link list owners out there. MrMaryLou puts on a pretty darned good show, both before and after. While he is warming up, he very thoughtfully dedicates songs to people in the room, or will play a song during the show because he knows someone in the room likes it. You should see the comments fly if the song isn't to someone else's liking. We are a guest of MrMaryLou and Greenguy in there. If MML plays a song that I don't like, I can get up and take a short break, or I can do something else or listen and respect both what he is doing as well as the person he is playing the song for.

Does it trample my freedom to have to listen to a song I might not like? I know many who will argue yes. Since when is having decent manners a violation of my civil rights? Now how do you know you don't like something if you don't taste/listen/try it? If you never ever step outside your comfort zone, perhaps you are the one who loses. I will still respect you for it, just as I hope you will respect me for my different view point. Afterall, DIVERSITY is what makes this world so unique, right.

Thanks for letting me vent. And yeah, I will understand if you brand me as a _____ because I am different. At least I am trying to share and learn and grow here instead of keeping my blinders in place.

Bill · 2009-05-22, 04:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pagan

Gee, yes, let's release non-US citizens that were caught in a warzone (not on US soil), back into the US proper so that they can continue to wage war against us. We are such a nice country, see? But, if I disagree with this, does that make me a racist?

I don't recall anybody suggesting anything like this in the national debates about what to do with gitmo.

So this example kinda spins your whole presentation.

saucygirl · 2009-05-22, 07:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pagan

Gee, yes, let's release non-US citizens that were caught in a warzone (not on US soil), back into the US proper so that they can continue to wage war against us. We are such a nice country, see?

I don't think you're being racist with that remark I think you might be misinformed. It's not like we're taking those prisoners and patting them on the back and wishing them luck while we set them free. We're placing them in high security prisons where no one has ever escaped. What about those prisoners that were set free in the time the bush administration was still in power. How come no one is saying anything about that?

stuveltje · 2009-05-22, 06:29 PM

Freedom of speech....i know what that is and i also know what will happen if you use that rule, the reason why i dont go into the chatroom anymore is because i piss people off because of the way i nag and use my freedom of speech and say what i think to others, freedom of speech is good but also can get you into problems....but who cares, you got your own opinion, if some one doesnt like it, lett him discus it with you , discussions are good, but i also found out alot keep their mouth shut, if they dont wanna discus your point of view, well fuck them then!

Pagan · 2009-05-22, 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saucygirl

I don't think you're being racist with that remark I think you might be misinformed. It's not like we're taking those prisoners and patting them on the back and wishing them luck while we set them free. We're placing them in high security prisons where no one has ever escaped. What about those prisoners that were set free in the time the bush administration was still in power. How come no one is saying anything about that?

Federal pens, even the maximum security ones, are pretty darned nice. Air conditioned, 3 meals a day, tv, "rehabilitation" programs - all on the taxpayer's dime. Gitmo, while not perfect has several advantages. The biggest one is that these prisoners are safe from harm by other prisoners. Can you guarantee that in the Federal Prison system? Sure, by isolation and that can be cruel treatment. And yeah, I did forget to insert my dripping sarcasm tags, too.

I don't agree with a lot of the paroles and releases. How do you explain to a minor that has been raped that the person who committed the crime only has to do a couple of years in jail and is free to live wherever they want? We don't have the manpower necessary to monitor the parolees on the streets now.

In my day job, I work getting deadbeat parents served. A good number of them are convicted violent offenders that have not kept up their registration with law enforcement. One very chilling case had the guy fleeing from his home state to Florida. There was a felony arrest warrant out for the guy, and we had a solid lead on where he was. I got a hold of the local police department, got a copy of the warrant to them and begged them - "Please pick this violent child abuser up." The address we had was less than 500 feet from an elementary school AND he was there with his girlfriend and toddlers.

Instead of picking him up, they ran his driver's license and found an address in a neighboring county. When I ran it against Google, it turned out to be a private postal center. The original PD NEVER even went out to the address we gave them. That man is still on the loose, living in someone's neighborhood because a kind judge let him out of jail. He's not the only one -- he is one of the saddest because that girlfriend was just 18 and had his year old baby with her.

With our "Kinder than thou" attitude, it will not be long before we are convinced that we must welcome these war criminals to our neighborhoods, give them US tax dollars to buy homes and cars and bring their starving families over, give them more tax dollars to live on, and just smile when they stick out their hand for more.

Does anyone remember what happened to the US citizens that were caught early on in this war? What about Daniel Pearl?

stuveltje · 2009-05-22, 08:09 PM

you go a tottaly different way now then you mentioned in your first post, the chat...make up you mind, fight goverment deals wont work on the board, with that i can mention about 1000s kids rape deals in holland, which the persons involveld get 2 months prison, so dont start that, goverment things you cant fight......you where talking about the chatroom. dont get me wrong, i am not fighting agains you, yeah sure i agree with you on te kids things and all, but keep with your first post....what you posted now has nothing to do with your first post and there is nothing what you will post now to improve that

saucygirl · 2009-05-22, 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pagan

Federal pens, even the maximum security ones, are pretty darned nice. Air conditioned, 3 meals a day, tv, "rehabilitation" programs - all on the taxpayer's dime. Gitmo, while not perfect has several advantages. The biggest one is that these prisoners are safe from harm by other prisoners. Can you guarantee that in the Federal Prison system? Sure, by isolation and that can be cruel treatment. And yeah, I did forget to insert my dripping sarcasm tags, too.

Taxpayers already pay for GITMO.

Bill · 2009-05-22, 09:07 PM

Now it's all clear.

"Enjoy the diversity!".

It's a neologism.

It means "American cops are dumb fucks, bumbling incompetents who can't tell a prisoner's asshole from a hole in the ground.".

Hard to argue with that.

Useless · 2009-05-22, 10:46 PM

I have no idea what the main point of this thread is because it seems like it's all over the place. (I'm not quite sure what diversity has to do with any of it.) But since Gitmo was mentioned at least twice, I feel the need to react to it. One should investigate how these alleged "enemy combatants" were gathered before making the brave assumption that they were all originally enemies and/or combatants. Our handling of the Gitmo detainees is a wonderful example of how two-faced we Americans are when it comes to our cherished freedoms and sense of justice. Freedom and justice for us -- fuck everyone else. Speedy trial, the right to know what we have been accused of, the evidence against us, defense counsel, etc, -- all that we consider integral to justice -- is tossed out the window for certain others and we couldn't care less. It's funny though: one American journalist was arrested and imprisoned in Iran after multiple warnings by Iran for her to leave, and Americans were pissed. It's a bitch always having to juggle these damned double standards.

Bill · 2009-05-23, 12:29 AM

Sorry Pagan, I'm yankin' your chain.

Your initial presentation is valid enough, and I don't think many would disagree with it's main points.

The political stuff seemed strange, in the context of the rest of the presentation.

It felt like a bait-and-switch, a 'false premise' argument. As if that were the real main point of your presentation, for which the rest was a kind of cover.

In modern political rhetoric, it's what's called a 'poison pill' argument.

It was probably more of a stream-of-conciousness thing, thoughts strung together as they poured out of the writing parts of the mind.

It's not like we don't all know there's still a big culture-war going on.

BadWolf · 2009-05-24, 01:40 PM

Speak your mind, even if your voice shakes.

Although I find I rarely care what people think about politics on a webmaster board.

2009-05-22, 02:45 AM	#1
Pagan Perverted Empress Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Finland Posts: 5,114	Maybe I am just grumpy but.... Whatever happened to ENJOYING the diversity? Look at some of the hate and discontent in the threads here and elsewhere, or sit back in the chat room at times and you will see what I mean. Sorry for the rant, but this has been building up for a while now and I have just plain had enough. I think it seriously started several years ago when people started the outcry over one group having a celebration. I remember vividly working for Lucent Technologies about 9 years ago around Christmas. They had the audacity to send around a memo outlining about a dozen things we could not do to decorate (No angels = religious, no Santa = Commercial, no trees = possible broken ornaments, even plastic ones, etc.) Instead of using that wonderous time of year to SHARE our diversity, and learn about another culture, we were told no, you can do this, it might offend someone. We could not even have a multi-cultural potluck because someone might not like a dish that was brought. Puh-leeeze! Look at the backlash over the recent US election. If you did not vote for Obama, you are branded as a racist. If you dare to speak out against something he is promoting, like this bailout, you are either a racist or bigot. What? Where is the polite freedom of speech we fought for? Am I no longer allowed to say I disagree with something because it is a bad idea? Gee, yes, let's release non-US citizens that were caught in a warzone (not on US soil), back into the US proper so that they can continue to wage war against us. We are such a nice country, see? But, if I disagree with this, does that make me a racist? Why are you branding me with a hateful title if I don't agree with you? Can't we just agree to disagree and respect each other for having different viewpoints? One guy in my area dared to post about his experience in a local restaurant. He had made reservations for this small pricey place for a very special anniversary dinner, and was there on time. Almost 2 hours after his reservation time and two $40 bottles of wine later, he still had not been seated and ended up leaving without dinner. Yes, there was live music that night and the entertainer is very popular in the area. You would not believe the hate and discontent this man has had heaped on him just because he opened his mouth. Did he deserve it? No. He was sharing his experience in quite polite terms without calling anyone names. And yet because he dared to open his mouth, he was seriously slammed from all sides. Now it may even sound petty or childish, but this attitude carries over into so many places. Not everyone here logs into the chat room on Saturday afternoon before the radioshow, but I would like to encourage people to do so. Get in and mingle with some of the best webmasters and link list owners out there. MrMaryLou puts on a pretty darned good show, both before and after. While he is warming up, he very thoughtfully dedicates songs to people in the room, or will play a song during the show because he knows someone in the room likes it. You should see the comments fly if the song isn't to someone else's liking. We are a guest of MrMaryLou and Greenguy in there. If MML plays a song that I don't like, I can get up and take a short break, or I can do something else or listen and respect both what he is doing as well as the person he is playing the song for. Does it trample my freedom to have to listen to a song I might not like? I know many who will argue yes. Since when is having decent manners a violation of my civil rights? Now how do you know you don't like something if you don't taste/listen/try it? If you never ever step outside your comfort zone, perhaps you are the one who loses. I will still respect you for it, just as I hope you will respect me for my different view point. Afterall, DIVERSITY is what makes this world so unique, right. Thanks for letting me vent. And yeah, I will understand if you brand me as a _____ because I am different. At least I am trying to share and learn and grow here instead of keeping my blinders in place. __________________ Is it naptime yet?

2009-05-22, 06:29 PM	#4
stuveltje Live and learn. And take very careful notes! Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Sunny Holland Posts: 6,157	Freedom of speech....i know what that is and i also know what will happen if you use that rule, the reason why i dont go into the chatroom anymore is because i piss people off because of the way i nag and use my freedom of speech and say what i think to others, freedom of speech is good but also can get you into problems....but who cares, you got your own opinion, if some one doesnt like it, lett him discus it with you , discussions are good, but i also found out alot keep their mouth shut, if they dont wanna discus your point of view, well fuck them then! __________________ Canadian Sexlinks - submit Erotica search -submit

2009-05-22, 08:09 PM	#6
stuveltje Live and learn. And take very careful notes! Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Sunny Holland Posts: 6,157	you go a tottaly different way now then you mentioned in your first post, the chat...make up you mind, fight goverment deals wont work on the board, with that i can mention about 1000s kids rape deals in holland, which the persons involveld get 2 months prison, so dont start that, goverment things you cant fight......you where talking about the chatroom. dont get me wrong, i am not fighting agains you, yeah sure i agree with you on te kids things and all, but keep with your first post....what you posted now has nothing to do with your first post and there is nothing what you will post now to improve that __________________ Canadian Sexlinks - submit Erotica search -submit Last edited by stuveltje; 2009-05-22 at 08:16 PM..

2009-05-22, 10:46 PM	#9
Useless Certified Nice Person Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Dirty Undies, NY Posts: 11,268	I have no idea what the main point of this thread is because it seems like it's all over the place. (I'm not quite sure what diversity has to do with any of it.) But since Gitmo was mentioned at least twice, I feel the need to react to it. One should investigate how these alleged "enemy combatants" were gathered before making the brave assumption that they were all originally enemies and/or combatants. Our handling of the Gitmo detainees is a wonderful example of how two-faced we Americans are when it comes to our cherished freedoms and sense of justice. Freedom and justice for us -- fuck everyone else. Speedy trial, the right to know what we have been accused of, the evidence against us, defense counsel, etc, -- all that we consider integral to justice -- is tossed out the window for certain others and we couldn't care less. It's funny though: one American journalist was arrested and imprisoned in Iran after multiple warnings by Iran for her to leave, and Americans were pissed. It's a bitch always having to juggle these damned double standards. __________________ Click here to purchase a bridge I'm selling.

2009-05-22, 09:07 PM	#8
Bill Selling porn allows me to stay in a constant state of Bliss - ain't that a trip! Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 3,914	Now it's all clear. "Enjoy the diversity!". It's a neologism. It means "American cops are dumb fucks, bumbling incompetents who can't tell a prisoner's asshole from a hole in the ground.". Hard to argue with that.

2009-05-23, 12:29 AM	#10
Bill Selling porn allows me to stay in a constant state of Bliss - ain't that a trip! Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 3,914	Sorry Pagan, I'm yankin' your chain. Your initial presentation is valid enough, and I don't think many would disagree with it's main points. The political stuff seemed strange, in the context of the rest of the presentation. It felt like a bait-and-switch, a 'false premise' argument. As if that were the real main point of your presentation, for which the rest was a kind of cover. In modern political rhetoric, it's what's called a 'poison pill' argument. It was probably more of a stream-of-conciousness thing, thoughts strung together as they poured out of the writing parts of the mind. It's not like we don't all know there's still a big culture-war going on.

2009-05-24, 01:40 PM	#11
BadWolf I'm going to the backseat of my car with the woman I love, and I won't be back for TEN MINUTES Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 83	Speak your mind, even if your voice shakes. Although I find I rarely care what people think about politics on a webmaster board.