New free site format (version 1.5)

[SI]

Originally Posted by kit

PS. Read initial discussion on Master-X here (russian text)

I thought the main idea of that thread was no-mirror site with 1-link resips on it. This is how they were going to improve SEO.

[HarryM]

Originally Posted by SI

I thought the main idea of that thread was no-mirror site with 1-link resips on it. This is how they were going to improve SEO.

That one sounds better to me, but what do I know. I've never been with linklist at #1 keyword porn.

Just guessing stuff here.. A recip table in google's eyes might look a bit artificial? Who in their right mind would naturally link to 12 or so site's and their respective category pages. Inside tables upon tables, and all on the one page.

Maybe something that would help free sites and link lists overall is to move away from using tables in general (they are meant for data, like DB tables, not for designing), stop with the category recips, use valid html and even though it's pointless with porn media, try for some accessibilty.

Not writing complete jibberish might help too:
http://www.nubiles-girls.com/f/naked-lala-princess/
"this baby never misses a chance to please her naughty mind and hungry body with a masturbation action"

What's the point of it all if this is the end product?

[Greenguy]

Originally Posted by HarryM

...Not writing complete jibberish might help too:
http://www.nubiles-girls.com/f/naked-lala-princess/
"this baby never misses a chance to please her naughty mind and hungry body with a masturbation action"

What's the point of it all if this is the end product?

I just re-read some of the "sales text" as well - nothing like describing popping a cherry in detail

I recommend you a site which specializes on photo and video materials of real virgins. They find them and photograph them hymens close up, record on video the defloration actions after which defloration blood is visible.

[NY Jester]

Maybe both formats could be listed..just as a test run? Im not saying run amuck, but what if there were a few acceptable ways to build FS's I mean galleries have different criteria with number of thumbs, out links sizes etc.

[Simon]

Just a stray thought...

If the LL rules allowed for 3-page sites, and if 3-page sites (and only 3-page sites) were allowed 4 outgoing links per page instead of the usual 3 links, then the amount of total outgoing links would be the same on a 3-page free site as on a 4-page free site.

[bluebrit]

Personally speaking I have always included the ICRA header to every FS I have built, so that's nothing new to me. In fact I assumed most people did this as a matter of course and my sales appear to be on par with everyone else’s.

Using Google as an example. They appear to penalize a FS because of its lack of updating. That and the obvious keywords, similar free content, and the once it’s built its forgotten marketing strategy used by everybody.

This more than anything appears to me, to be the main reason for lowered sales by any FS built and as a kick on, lowered sales to LL owners because of these static sites.

Because of this I doubt the proposed design will alter that much, although it will help while search engines try to catch up with what were doing differently. Once they understand the new format I think we will be back to square one again.

As a suggestion, it may that two or three agreed upon FS formats should be used so that there is a greater difference in design. That at least would slow down se’s from taking them out of their main listings so quickly.

Another suggestion would be to grant the ability to trusted webmasters by LL owners, the right to update the galleries and text on a FS, which would help to keeping them listed on major search engines due to the constantly changing content. Updating FS pages should also improve the LL page listings as well.

Once a change has been made the FS should be flagged by the submitter so that the changes can be checked by the LL owner. As a trusted submitter, this could be done by using a special email address.

[CrazySy]

Free sites is a bad quality site in therms of Google because:
1) They never updates.
2) Text content duplicates many times and equal texts of hundreds other free sites.
3) They don't have new incoming links after initial listing in Link Sites.

How would removing index page change any of these?

Free site is a bad quality site in therms of Surfers because:
1) They have bad usability: surfer must click 3 times to see the gallery (warning page -> main page -> gallery).
2) They have small content amount (2-3 galleries)

A freesite is a mini tour for sponsor with the exception of getting more free samples. I'd go back to submitting galleries if I just want to hand them the content. I can use the content for a freesite (new suggested format) and build 3 galleries.

You know what a bad quality site is? A bad quality site is the ones you can read the text 3 or 4 times, and still can't figure out what the fuck it means. A bad quality sites is, using crappy colors and over compressed thumbs/images.......

This does not benefit the submitter one bit. I stayed up late last night to look at some numbers and here is what I get:

Sales from my freesites index page 49%
Sales from my freesites main page 38%
Sales from my freesites first gallery 9%
Sales from my freesites second gallery 4%

If I have to give up 50% of my income to make link list owners happy, I'll give up on the link list.

However, as a submitter I agree with a change. Why not allow the site to be a mix of pics, movies and stories? Why all galleries have to have the same type of content? Link lists strict rules is the reason all the sites look the same. For example, if I build a site for a single model and make a bio page on freesite that has a link to her site, I have to count the link to bio page as an external link because the page does not have content! Link list strict rules limits the creativity to produce different looking sites. They are many many ways to make your site look different without getting rid of the index page.

Have a list of trusted submitters, allow them to use their creativity and build a few sites with completely different structure, evaluate them and if you like their ideas, let them go at it and keep building.

Just my 2 cents

[Toby]

Originally Posted by CrazySy

...Just my 2 cents

I'll add my 2¢ in with CrazySy's, maybe we'll have enough for a Starbuck's after awhile.

Increasing diversity is probably a good goal, but don't let the tail be wagging the dog.

I optimize for sales first and SE second.

[Cleo]

Most of my sales come from the index page followed by the main page.

Enough said.

[Useless]

OBAMA '08 It's Time for Change (or something like that)

Most free site builders put ZERO effort in to SEO or effective sales text on any of their pages, so I'm not sure why they'd fight against losing one worthless page of a free site that isn't going to produce sales any better than, or even as good as, a single TGP gallery. The big difference being that TGPs have more traffic. I think people are clinging to a dead concept.

Those of you who have the ability to track sales per page, have you considered why your numbers are the way they are? Do you know that it's because we are going out of our way to make the content difficult to get to, or could it be merely the fact that you've been lucky enough to place a good ad block on the first page that the surfer sees (which you could still do with a different format)?

I hope this thread/debate/argument goes on for awhile. I love it.

[plateman]

it's funny, free site builders and harden LL owners are gonna be the first ones to go back to doing what they did before, cause they will not accept change or invent a different model

[ponygirl]

Well, I'm all for trying something new, more for sales than SE purposes, but whatever works. UW quoted DD a bit back, with 'sales are created by content'. While this seems at odds with most people saying their sales come from the index and main pages, I don't think so.

When you think about it, I'm sure most surfers have seen enough tours to know the general idea now. A lot of new tours all have great quality video samples, big huge pics, 3 or 4 pages etc. If I knew that, I might be inclined to click through to a tour as fast as I can if the first page I saw of the freesite was kinda crappy looking. Maybe that's why I've also been told from many people that ugly freesites sell

anyway, just a thought. I don't know if it would work out or not, but I'd give it a shot.

I really like Simon's idea of 4 links out, too

[plateman]

Originally Posted by ponygirl

Well, I'm all for trying something new, more for sales than SE purposes, but whatever works. UW quoted DD a bit back, with 'sales are created by content'. While this seems at odds with most people saying their sales come from the index and main pages, I don't think so.

When you think about it, I'm sure most surfers have seen enough tours to know the general idea now. A lot of new tours all have great quality video samples, big huge pics, 3 or 4 pages etc. If I knew that, I might be inclined to click through to a tour as fast as I can if the first page I saw of the freesite was kinda crappy looking. Maybe that's why I've also been told from many people that ugly freesites sell

anyway, just a thought. I don't know if it would work out or not, but I'd give it a shot.

I really like Simon's idea of 4 links out, too

the reason sales came from the index and main was that most good free site submitters could get the surfers to click before they see the content, and most newer tours had enough content to get sales from the tours

[Greenguy]

Originally Posted by kit

...I offer one simple rule for discussion:
We accept free sites without warning page if you will add ICRA or RTA meta tags to your site HTML code....[/url]

Kit - you are such a fucking moron that it baffles my mind how you got to where you are now (well, except that you copied an established format, but that's another story)

Follow me for 2 seconds: the RTA label is part of ASACP - we all know this. The ASACP has a list of what they call "industry best practices":
http://www.asacp.org/page.php?content=best_practices
It's a list of things that we, as adult website owners, should follow. One of those things, oddly enough, IS TO HAVE A FUCKING WARNING PAGE. The RTA label is supposed to go on your warning page!

I haven't even read the rest of this thread yet, but I will also say that, while I find my ego being inflated as I type, anyone that is moronic enough to re-invent the LinkList/FreeSite concept without discussing it on this board does not belong in the business.

Gimme 15 & I'll shoot down the rest of your ideas

[Greenguy]

Originally Posted by kit

This is not a big secret, traffic leave Link Sites last years, especially after Google algo sfiting last 12 motnhs.

If you were a Free Site submitter you'd have been banned for Grammar & Spelling Errors If you look at all the major Link Lists over the last 5+ years, it's almost all ebbs & flows. Sometimes we're high, sometimes we're low. It's always been like this & I assume that it always will. I say "assume" because, like everyone else reading this thread, I don't know what Google's really doing. I just base what I assume on what's happened in the past. My bet is that you have never had the bottom fall out. You've never lost 96.67% of his search engine traffic. My suggestion to you is to ride it out. Stop assuming that it's everyone else's site & that everyone else has to change to better you.

Originally Posted by kit

...Free sites is a bad quality site in therms of Google because:
1) They never updates.
2) Text content duplicates many times and equal texts of hundreds other free sites.
3) They don't have new incoming links after initial listing in Link Sites....

1 - Your idea doesn't have pages that update either.
2 - Your idea will still have mirror sites with different recips.
3 - Your idea does not have new incoming links either.

Originally Posted by kit

...Benefits:
1) There is no reason to keep warning page if you add special meta tags to HTML code.
2) Therefore free site layout become more usefull for surfing. Content can be accessed by two clicks instead 3 clicks before.
3) Decrease free sites mirroring...

1 - I've shot that down already.
2 - why not remove the main page & just link to the galleries? OH wait.....
3 - See 2 above.

Originally Posted by kit

....PS. Read initial discussion on Master-X here (russian text)

Oh Yeah! Invite a group of English speaking webmasters to jump into a discussion on a foreign language board. Another BRILLIANT fucking idea

(my spell-checker went off 5 times - 4 times I had to hit "ignore")

[Greenguy]

Originally Posted by LusciousDelight

Interesting. But will everyone else accept fs 1.5?...

Everyone? No. But I'm also betting that ZERO Link List owners that frequent this board will accept them either.

Originally Posted by Licker4U

All this does is knock out one whole page of ads and possible sales....

That's always been one of the selling points of building Free Sites.

Originally Posted by TekAngel

I don't understand how is this going to "Decrease free sites mirroring"...

It doesn't. Assuming that everyone changed, you'd still have the same number of mirrors, but now it's main page mirrors instead of warning page mirrors.

Originally Posted by Useless Warrior

...This is a great idea and a great discussion. I *think* even himself may have said that the free site has needed to be revamped for quite some time.

I was thinking more along the lines of 3 & 4 gallery Free Sites (and if my mind was normal, I'd have suggested that a year ago)

Originally Posted by Preacher

I like the idea of streamlining freesite navigation, especially from a linklists perception...

Have you surfed your Free Sites lately?

Originally Posted by ponygirl

...I like the idea of having to put the tags in there...

That's the ONLY good idea Kit has.

Originally Posted by SheepGuy

I like it. I like it a lot!
When I first started building free sites (way back when, not in the last few years) it wasn't so regimented and they all didn't look the same. Any ideas that will allow a little more creativity are fine by me, and might even convince me to build fs's again.
Whether I do or not I'll definitely list free sites that don't fit the standard warning-main-gallery1-gallery2 grind. I'm listing some galleries now because the free site model is boring to me, and I would imagine it's boring to surfers as well.
I believe it is time for some free-thinking, and some changes to the rigid rules so many LL's live by.
Shit, if somebody was to send me a site made up of 3 galleries with no warning page I'd list it.

How does going from warning-main-gallery1-gallery2 to main-gallery1-gallery2-gallery3 allow for more creativity? If anything, it's a decrease in creativity, as you are removing a page that is designed very differently from the other 3 & adding another copy of the gallery template.

Originally Posted by Useless Warrior

...Most free site builders put ZERO effort in to SEO or effective sales text on any of their pages...

WAIT! HOLD THE PHONE! After reading that & then re-reading Kit's post, I have a new way of thinking! Kit's not worried about his SE traffic. He's worried about YOURS! Think about it. He's not changing the structure of his Link List, he's asking you to change so that you get more hits from Google! Well fuck me! Kit deserves a metal or some other prestigious award. Putting all Free Site builders ahead of himself, tracking the listings of Free Sites in Google for years & years & years & coming up with this fantastic concept! I think everyone should bow down & kiss the ground that Kit walks on! B-R-A-V-O!

(excuse me while I throw up)

Back to Useless's statement - Kit thinks that his plan will benefit Free Site listings in Google. There is no other way to look at this, as he says "google" or "SE" 5 times in his 1st 7 sentences. And what you put up there about "ZERO effort" is a big part of the problem. People get out what they put in & SE's are no different. If you have all your Free Sites on a domain that are not linked to a hub on the index page, you either have no concern about SE traffic (which is fine) or your not educated enough on SE methods to be worried about it. I use this as one example of MANY things that webmasters can do to better their sites in SE's. Removing one page & adding another to a small area of your network is not going to increase or decrease your SE listings.

[Useless]

Originally Posted by Greenie

WAIT! HOLD THE PHONE! After reading that & then re-reading Kit's post, I have a new way of thinking! Kit's not worried about his SE traffic. He's worried about YOURS! Think about it. He's not changing the structure of his Link List, he's asking you to change so that you get more hits from Google!

Sounds great to me. I'm sold.

All I'm saying is that the topic playing with the format is worthy of discussion. I don't agree with Kit's SEO assertions, but I'm also not certain that I'm fully comprehending it. I'm not an SEO. The idea of altering the free site has been put on the table a few times and you, my sexy green friend, have had quite a few ideas yourself. You just haven't gone public with them. If you do, please post them in English so that I can read them.

[Greenguy]

Originally Posted by Sergeyka

...Free site add in Russian LLs, no mirrors unique text content

Before we go any further, I think we need to hear from the French Link List & Free Site Coalition as well.

Originally Posted by Sergeyka

It is necessary to believe

To criticize always it is easy

No, it's not. See, over here, we have this thing called Freedom Of Speech and while it's not a perfect system, we do have the right to question what we do not agree with & not just blindly follow what we are told is right.

Originally Posted by Useless Warrior

...All I'm saying is that the topic playing with the format is worthy of discussion. I don't agree with Kit's SEO assertions, but I'm also not certain that I'm fully comprehending it. I'm not an SEO. The idea of altering the free site has been put on the table a few times and you, my sexy green friend, have had quite a few ideas yourself. You just haven't gone public with them. If you do, please post them in English so that I can read them.

I do have ideas & I really wish this sleep apnea thing didn't run (and ruin) my life for the last 12 months, otherwise I know I'd have brought them up for discussion.

[Sergeyka]

Originally Posted by Greenie

Kit - you are such a fucking moron that it baffles my mind how you got to where you are now (well, except that you copied an established format, but that's another story)

Follow me for 2 seconds: the RTA label is part of ASACP - we all know this. The ASACP has a list of what they call "industry best practices":
http://www.asacp.org/page.php?content=best_practices
It's a list of things that we, as adult website owners, should follow. One of those things, oddly enough, IS TO HAVE A FUCKING WARNING PAGE. The RTA label is supposed to go on your warning page!

I haven't even read the rest of this thread yet, but I will also say that, while I find my ego being inflated as I type, anyone that is moronic enough to re-invent the LinkList/FreeSite concept without discussing it on this board does not belong in the business.

Gimme 15 & I'll shoot down the rest of your ideas

TGP gallery without warning page |badidea|
This format
http://thepurelinks.com/tmp/f2.gif

without mirrors and submit in 30-50 LL's

[Greenguy]

Originally Posted by Sergeyka

TGP gallery without warning page |badidea|
This format
http://thepurelinks.com/tmp/f2.gif

without mirrors and submit in 30-50 LL's

So you want to put up to 50 recip links on that page?

[Sergeyka]

Originally Posted by Greenie

So you want to put up to 50 recip links on that page?

Certainly!
And no mirrors!

Otherwise it is senseless

[Sergeyka]

Example
http://www.nubiles-girls.com/f/naked-lala-princess/

Free site add in Russian LLs, no mirrors unique text content

[Greenguy]

Originally Posted by Sergeyka

Example
http://www.nubiles-girls.com/f/naked-lala-princess/

Free site add in Russian LLs, no mirrors unique text content

There's 36 recip links on there - you have just eliminated ONE page from the internet

What happens if I have 72 Link Lists on my submit list? 2 mirrors instead of 4?

If I made 2 warning pages with 18 recips (very common) what makes you think that Google would even notice? Most of the page will look very different, as 18 recips take up a lot of space/coding on a page.

And why do you assume that Free Site builders are not smart enough to change around the coding on "mirror" pages so that the coding doesn't look exactly the same?

I can sit here all day & shoot down this idea.

[Sergeyka]

Originally Posted by Greenie

There's 36 recip links on there - you have just eliminated ONE page from the internet

What happens if I have 72 Link Lists on my submit list? 2 mirrors instead of 4?

If I made 2 warning pages with 18 recips (very common) what makes you think that Google would even notice? Most of the page will look very different, as 18 recips take up a lot of space/coding on a page.

And why do you assume that Free Site builders are not smart enough to change around the coding on "mirror" pages so that the coding doesn't look exactly the same?

I can sit here all day & shoot down this idea.

Greenie!
To add a rule for free site 1.5
1. Minimum 40 other LLs
2. Free site (main page - index.html) created domain.com/free-site/index.html and gallery only gallery1.html (index1.html) and gallery2.html (index2.html) page.
Other pages In other folders - decline

In a result - 100% no MIRRORS

[LD]

Originally Posted by Sergeyka

Greenie!
To add a rule for free site 1.5
1. Minimum 40 other LLs
2. Free site (main page - index.html) created domain.com/free-site/index.html and gallery only gallery1.html (index1.html) and gallery2.html (index2.html) page.
Other pages In other folders - decline

In a result - 100% no MIRRORS

If you're after SEO, is 40+ outbound links on one page really better than 4 mirrors with fewer links per page?