Link O'Rama Rule Changes (yipee)

[Useless]

Originally Posted by Quotealex

Me neither. But what can we do!

What is it exactly that you don't like? Is it the minimum pic size going up just slightly? It really is a slight increase in size. Hell, for a lot of free site builders, these new rules merely acknowledge what they've been doing all along.

[WarBot]

I think Im getting a bad rap here and becoming the poster child for bad quality. Since you declined my partner app to whoring wives and Filthy Earls I guess you think I dont use good quality content (or my sites suck or something like that). But Ive never submitted a site with pics less than 640 on the long side and I crop and optimize my images and thumbs by hand. And the clips on my video sites are grabbed by hand to get (in my opinion) the most erotic scenes without giving away too much, not just randomly ripped and grabbed. I dont think crappy content sells. I was just saying that if all the free porn online sucked and surfers could only get the good stuff in the members area then alot more surfers would be buying memberships.

My point with the LOR new rules is that I think that giving away too much makes them less likely to buy. Which Ive already said twice and I really dont want to get flamed for beating a dead horse. GG obviously knows what he's doing and Im sure you do too. I will have to bow to experience on this one. It wouldnt be the first time (or the last) that I was wrong about something I felt strongly about.

I just dont want to get labeled as the guy that thinks crappy content sells or the guy that uses crappy content. I really dont (at least I dont think I do lol).

Cheers
WB

[Quotealex]

Originally Posted by Useless Warrior

What is it exactly that you don't like? .

Both actually. I like to make my fs with the least amount of pictures as required and make them as small as possible.

[Kinky]

if you go to a grocery store and get a free sample and it tastes like shit are you going to buy some of it? hell no but if it tastes great you MIGHT buy some

if you see some free porn samples that don't get your crotch stiff or your panties wet are you gonna buy anything? probably not but if you see something that you would like to see more of you are gonna check it out more

alot of the "freeloaders" are just looking for the best quality, not neccesarily eating up all the bad content out there

surfers are on your sites to check out your samples, bad samples leads to quick click backs, if they think the sites being advertised are going to contain the same type of content as your samples they are not going to buy anything from you

[virgohippy]

I'm more than happy about dropping the 800 screen width rule!

I don't think the pic size will affect the way I do things all that much either. Means my bandwidth will go up a bit... but... eh.

Warbot, I agree that giving away free stuff makes sales harder, but think about it this way: if sites that list links to 4 page ads have to compete with sites that list TONS of free galleries, can you see where there's a need to adapt?

Personally, I'd hate to see my warning page sales dissappear because all the surfers keep graduating to TGP's.

Whatever's necessary to keep the LL game going forward is good by me.

I think Greenie made a careful balance here. And I, for one, take no shame in being a copycat!

[ponygirl]

I'm going to venture into the fray here

I do prefer bigger thumbs, simply because it pisses me off to no end to surf and see tiny little pics. I think it's a waste of a surfer's time to have to click thru to each pic to see which ones they like. I see the bigger thumbs as a preview to the bigger pic, so what's the point if they can't even make it out? One pic can make a sale if it hits the right nerve

I also have stated that I think 12 thumbs makes it easier for a builder to vary their gallery templates. You can arrange 12 differently more easily than 10 imo (and from what I see as a reviewer myself).

As for the full size, well ever since Cleo upped her pic size rules I've been making them bigger too (not quite 1200 combined, but close) and to be honest, I really haven't noticed a difference in click thrus or conversions. If they're going to buy, they're going to buy because they want to & your site is the best they see advertising what they wanted anyway. You catch more flies with honey...and all that

but that's just my opinion. I don't think GG is going to see many people taking him out of their submit list, and if they do, well more for me

[Kinky]

Originally Posted by WarBot

I think Im getting a bad rap here and becoming the poster child for bad quality. Since you declined my partner app to whoring wives and Filthy Earls I guess you think I dont use good quality content (or my sites suck or something like that). But Ive never submitted a site with pics less than 640 on the long side and I crop and optimize my images and thumbs by hand. And the clips on my video sites are grabbed by hand to get (in my opinion) the most erotic scenes without giving away too much, not just randomly ripped and grabbed. I dont think crappy content sells. I was just saying that if all the free porn online sucked and surfers could only get the good stuff in the members area then alot more surfers would be buying memberships.

My point with the LOR new rules is that I think that giving away too much makes them less likely to buy. Which Ive already said twice and I really dont want to get flamed for beating a dead horse. GG obviously knows what he's doing and Im sure you do too. I will have to bow to experience on this one. It wouldnt be the first time (or the last) that I was wrong about something I felt strongly about.

I just dont want to get labeled as the guy that thinks crappy content sells or the guy that uses crappy content. I really dont (at least I dont think I do lol).

Cheers
WB

I don't think UW is calling you out personally WB, he is just a cocksucker

and you are right, if all the free porn sucked, which most of it used to, then it would be better, but your competition is already using the high quality tactics to get more sales

and it is good to hear that you do that with your content, lots of people are still just slapping up 10 pics real quick with whatever content they have laying around

[JustRobert]

Originally Posted by Useless Warrior

What is it exactly that you don't like? Is it the minimum pic size going up just slightly? It really is a slight increase in size. Hell, for a lot of free site builders, these new rules merely acknowledge what they've been doing all along.

Your exactly right. I will not say that all my sites fit in with the new rules but a high percentage do, so this is really no problem.

Useless is also correct about surfers going to tgps. All my images for them are cut at 700+ with 15 pics a page and a hell of alot more traffic than LL's have ever given. And yet with all these increases I pay less than half of what I use to for bandwidth just a couple of years ago. It really is a wash. I do not do videos because I think the surfer should pay for that. But in time I will probably have to change my thought about this as well.

No gripes on you warbot, I understand your posts are just debate and debate only not complaints. Just like mine, not complaining, just debating with those that have been in the business longer so I can understand better.

[Bill]

I don't like it because I think it sends a subliminal signal to the surfers that we are more desperate for their eyeballs, and that our content, all content, is therefore worth less.

I've never had any problem with the 800 standard, and I don't care about it one way or the other.

But upping picture size and number devalues all of our work, without in any significant way adding to anybodies business, neither linklists nor builders.

It will just lead to another size 'arms race' as everybody tries to position themselves to their best advantage - in the end we are back exactly where we started, but with a devalued product.

But what can you do? Not much. Devaluation of our business is presumably inevitable.

[Quotealex]

Originally Posted by Kinky Jones

if you go to a grocery store and get a free sample and it tastes like shit are you going to buy some of it? hell no but if it tastes great you MIGHT buy some

And if you give alot of free sample every day, why would they need to buy it when they can just return to the grocery store every day and get some more free sample as they please!

[ponygirl]

Originally Posted by Quotealex

And if you give alot of free sample every day, why would they need to buy it when they can just return to the grocery store every day and get some more free sample as they please!

I used to manage a store (a candy store yum yum) where there was a set amount of time each day that we had to get out and 'sample' the passersby. Yes, we had a lot of people coming back just for the free stuff, but it DID make more people buy, too. Why else do you think they do it? It's all in the way you look at it.

[Useless]

Originally Posted by WarBot

I think Im getting a bad rap here and becoming the poster child for bad quality. Since you declined my partner app to whoring wives and Filthy Earls I guess you think I dont use good quality content (or my sites suck or something like that).

We're both arguing a moot point anyway, so don't worry about being labeled. We could swap opinions and it wouldn't matter. I've been labeled plenty of things on this board, and though I don't sleep well at night, it has nothing to do with the labels.

I don't recall your application and I don't store them for future reference, so I can't tell you why it was rejected. Many times, the samples submitted are just a small part the process for me. I check whois, scan your domain(s), and check this board to see what sort of intelligence I can gather on you. It may have been due to the fact that you are new to the free site game. I like to keep my daily link acceptance rate as close to 100% as possible, so I tend to accept only seasoned submitters or people that I've interacted well with on this board and have therefore gained confidence in. I prefer to be selective so I can open up the review admin in the morning, peek at the sites quickly, and click "accept" all down the line. It's a mix of quality assurance and utter laziness really. Being rejected once doesn't mean that you can't reapply later.

[Kinky]

Originally Posted by Quotealex

And if you give alot of free sample every day, why would they need to buy it when they can just return to the grocery store every day and get some more free sample as they please!

because you cannot live off of free samples alone, you will starve to death and as I stated too many people are already doing it and you can't control what they are doing, you might run the risk of being left behind so to say buy the competition

I am curious though, Bill if you are in here again, to hear more of your thoughts on the subject

[MrYum]

Originally Posted by Useless Warrior

This discussion just goes to show that there are different theories on what sells porn. I think surfers buy because you've got them hooked on a good thing, you think they buy because free porn sucks.

Thought that bore repeating

Some of the arguments here against changes like these are not unlike the old mindset of blind links and circle jerks. Throw up some crappy pics and more or less force the surfer to the paysite at all costs.

By no means saying you would do that WB, but trying to show you a different perspective on why changes like this are likely good for sales

I'd like to think we're working with a somewhat more savvy surfer in todays adult market. Todays surfer is less likely to purchase based on seeing shitty samples and being herded to a paysite for more. But, give him a taste of something of quality...something that really pushes the buttons...something that hits home...and you might just have a sale

The same can be said of paysites...the old cookie cutter paysites dont' sell like they used to. This business is changing and maturing. I really think it's time to come out of the dark corners and into the light. Using quality samples to promote quality adult products makes sense imo.

Having given it a lot of thought since Greenie went live with these changes, I'll likely be implementing some changes at FPP. That is, if I ever get these new categories added!!!

[Useless]

Oh, btw - I don't like his wider site allowance. I honestly keep my settings at 800x600 and horizontal scroll annoys me to no end. And now I'm going to be seeing more of it! Damn that !

Who'da thunk that this would become the board's HOT thread?

[Kinky]

what are we all gonna do when Greenie starts making us build for all the people that are buying widescreen monitors and laptops which are all the rage today? I want stuff to look good on my 42" plasma monitor and my 50" HD monitor in the living room too

[Preacher]

Originally Posted by Useless Warrior

I don't recall your application and I don't store them for future reference, so I can't tell you why it was rejected...blah, blah, blah...

Warbot submitted his first few free-sites with a protected whois, that is the reason Usless rejected your app, nothing personal. My guess is you got a lot of rejections during that period from other linklists. I'm a pushover with board members, until they cross me, then I banish their soulds to Hell.

Besides, Useless is a cocksucker, who cares about his opinions!

[Greenguy]

Originally Posted by Quotealex

Both actually. I like to make my fs with the least amount of pictures as required and make them as small as possible.

Well, now that's 24 & 700x525

Originally Posted by WarBot

...But Ive never submitted a site with pics less than 640 on the long side and I crop and optimize my images and thumbs by hand...

I have one free site with pics of yours listed (it has 30 pics with 15/page btw ) I was looking at the size of the pics & they are really strange. 640 x 399, 412, 373, 403. etc - why are you cropping these by hand? Regardless of my rules, if you have a batch of pics that are all 640x480, just run come compression software (thumbs Plus, CompuPic) on them if they are too big in file size. Why would you bother cropping out 50-80 pixels on one side?

...and while we're talking pics, 800x600 is a very popular size - auto-crop them (and any other 4:3 ratio pics bigger than that) all to 700x525 & you're all set!

Originally Posted by Quotealex

And if you give a lot of free sample every day, why would they need to buy it when they can just return to the grocery store every day and get some more free sample as they please!

I have 12,000 links listed - a vast majority are free sites, but let's say that 1/2 of them are free sites with pics & the other 1/2 are movie sites or pay - at 20 pics/site, that's 120,000 free pics. My grocery store gives away free samples all day long, but people still buy frozen burritos from time to time

[virgohippy]

Originally Posted by Useless Warrior

Who'da thunk that this would become the board's HOT thread?

What I find most interesting is the amount of board members in support of the changes.

As though a bunch of us were just waiting for greenie to say it was okay.

[Preacher]

Originally Posted by Greenie

... but people still buy frozen burritos from time to time

I've heard of meat burritos, is this frozen type a way to prepare a cock for extra stimulation?

You know there was a depraved porn movie with a girl wrapped in a giant burrito that I would love to reference right now, but it seems that age is taking a toll on my old noggan.

[JustRobert]

Originally Posted by Greenie

but people still buy frozen burritos from time to time

I like frozen burritos. It makes it easier to keep working

[Kinky]

Originally Posted by Preacher

but it seems that age is taking a toll on my old noggan.

are you sure it isn't all those Xany bars?

[WarBot]

Originally Posted by Greenie

I have one free site with pics of yours listed (it has 30 pics with 15/page btw )

DOH!

I was looking at the size of the pics & they are really strange. 640 x 399, 412, 373, 403. etc - why are you cropping these by hand?

I dont crop the larger images just the thumbs.

They came all wierd sized like that. Got em from david lace a looooong time ago (did he go out of business?).

[WarBot]

Originally Posted by Greenie

I have one free site with pics of yours listed

See, you list my sites on link-o-rama and porn movie links. I dont submit crappy content sites right? Yes Im an insecure little man.

[MrYum]

Originally Posted by JustRobert

I like frozen burritos. It makes it easier to keep working

I keep a stash of those suckers in the freezer at all times...they're tasty

I'm not wild about increasing site widths yet...there are still a good number of surfers at 800 wide. Most recent data I could find was about 20%, but that was from January of this year...so it's no doubt dropped further since that time. However, that's still more surfers than I want to make side scroll. In another 6 to 12 months, that will most likely change.

Bumping up pic sizes slightly though I think is a damn fine idea