PornoTube

[roganoli]

I think that it is not good for us…Which your opinion?

[Toby]

I have some concerns, mostly with regard to how they intend to control abuse of copyrighted content. So far they (AEBN) have not given a satisfactory answer.

[alessandro]

It's not good news IMHO.

[Greenguy]

I'll let Bishop from AEBN know aobut this thread & hopefully he can shed some light on the subject for us.

[Senator_x]

Good for program owners who want to brand their products, bad for webmaster since they can't brand other peoples products as their own.

Webmaster with original products(amateurish stuff) can benefit by adding movies with their website URL watermarked. This can drive traffic virally just like youtube does for mainstream sites.

[[BV]]

Originally Posted by Senator_x

Good for program owners who want to brand their products, bad for webmaster since they can't brand other peoples products as their own.

Webmaster with original products(amateurish stuff) can benefit by adding movies with their website URL watermarked. This can drive traffic virally just like youtube does for mainstream sites.

Affiliate webmasters can buy some video clips and brand them with their own url. (ATGP, MGP, or Free Site owner could put their url on the video)

The problem now though is, if the video shows anything more than titties their has to be a 2257 disclaimer in the first part of the video.

I don't see hardly anyone doing this though. Very scary if you ask me.

[atariFu]

I would be more worried about bittorrent, pornotube rarely has anything over a minute long.

[GonZo]

Originally Posted by roganoli

I think that it is not good for us…Which your opinion?

Help me understand why you think this is not good for the industry?

[Greenguy]

Originally Posted by GonZo

Help me understand why you think this is not good for the industry?

It's not that it's bad for the industry, but it is bad for general webmasters that make a living with tgps & link lists & free sites & galleries, as it does teach the surfer that they can get a shitload of free movies at one site.

It's sorta like a legit fusker, if that makes sense.

[GonZo]

Originally Posted by Greenie

It's not that it's bad for the industry, but it is bad for general webmasters that make a living with tgps & link lists & free sites & galleries, as it does teach the surfer that they can get a shitload of free movies at one site.

It's sorta like a legit fusker, if that makes sense.

Im sure as a link list owner you will agree that the thumbbed TGPs were bad for link lists. Bit Torrent Sites are the bane of TGPs.

The web evolves at the expense of those who dont seize change.

We've taught the surfer that they can get free porn for many years now. Remember the old addage we all used to chant? Free sites are to tease...pay sites to please.

Now you can see a myraid of freebies within tours that just a few years ago didnt give away as much as an exposed nipple.

[Greenguy]

This is going to be a good discussion

Originally Posted by GonZo

Im sure as a link list owner you will agree that the thumbbed TGPs were bad for link lists. Bit Torrent Sites are the bane of TGPs....

I don't think you can compare those 2.

1st off, I don't think Thumb TGP's were bad for Link Lists - I actually like them, but they do bring up a shitload of 2257 questions (which is probably why I don't have one)

Bit Torrent (and any P2P service) is bad for "webmasters" just like PornoTube is bad for "webmasters" because it really does teach the surfer that you can get content (and a lot of it) for free all at once place.

I'd also throw Guba into this as well, because there are a lot of similarities.

And don't get me wrong - as soon as YouTube became popular, everyone knew there was going to be a porn version - but like these other sites/programs, there's a lot of questions about 2257 & copyrights & surfer submitted content (since the 1st script that allowed you to post content to a website, there's always been that fear of illegal material being posted) And yes, all of those things are really none of my business, because I don't own the company nor do I have any content to worry aobut as far as copyrights.

I assume that most sponsors won't care that their content is on there, because it's free advertising & they'll get sales from it, which is their bottom line.

My concern - and I think the concern of most of the people on this board - is that this is another thing that tgp/linklist & gallery/freesite webmasters have to compete with - and these sites/programs are on a level right off the bat that makes it very hard to compete with.

[GonZo]

Originally Posted by Greenie

This is going to be a good discussion

I don't think you can compare those 2.

1st off, I don't think Thumb TGP's were bad for Link Lists - I actually like them, but they do bring up a shitload of 2257 questions (which is probably why I don't have one)

Bit Torrent (and any P2P service) is bad for "webmasters" just like PornoTube is bad for "webmasters" because it really does teach the surfer that you can get content (and a lot of it) for free all at once place.

I'd also throw Guba into this as well, because there are a lot of similarities.

And don't get me wrong - as soon as YouTube became popular, everyone knew there was going to be a porn version - but like these other sites/programs, there's a lot of questions about 2257 & copyrights & surfer submitted content (since the 1st script that allowed you to post content to a website, there's always been that fear of illegal material being posted) And yes, all of those things are really none of my business, because I don't own the company nor do I have any content to worry aobut as far as copyrights.

I assume that most sponsors won't care that their content is on there, because it's free advertising & they'll get sales from it, which is their bottom line.

My concern - and I think the concern of most of the people on this board - is that this is another thing that tgp/linklist & gallery/freesite webmasters have to compete with - and these sites/programs are on a level right off the bat that makes it very hard to compete with.

Excellent debate.
Actually gonzo.com was a linklist a long time ago. I jumped to tgps and then thumbed TGPs as it was a quick traffic builder.

2257 issues are an entire different debate all together.

Bottomline is its hard to compete as a true affiliate based webmaster.
Early wisdom used to say why build something of my own when I acn make more money selling others with a fraction of the effort?

Its hell of a lot more effort now and people got greedy with all the stealing tricks and of course this shit with Zango and AFF.

This shit has been going on a long time before with sextracker ... Newton did and excellent interview a while back on it.

Ill do some digging for it but I think you can still see some of this from this quiery. As I recall sextracker was loading a trojan that replaced affilaite codes and cookies with their own. As you can see this ended bad..
http://www.oprano.com/msgboard/searc...searchid=27418

Ill see if I can find the interview.

[Kron]

Nah, this is just next thing, soon TGP gona be some sort of tube site

[Senator_x]

Good if you know how to market you product virally.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viral_marketing


Bad if you don't know how to market. Also, bad if the program owner doesn't want their product out their.

[fusionx]

Bishop is away fly fishing or making babies or racing in the grand prix of monaco or some such adventure. Until he's back from saving the world with only a can opener, some chewing gum and toenail clippers I'd be happy to answer any questions you might have.

One thing off the top - affiliates can certainly use pornotube.com, as long as the TOS of the affiliate company allows it.

For copyrighted content - anything that is reported is removed, it's that easy. Toby - there haven't been any significant questions about it so far, so yeah - we haven't given any answers. Even if a clip is from an affiliate section, if the owner doesn't want it there, it's gone. Simple.

Kron is pretty much correct. Times are a'changin and with the advent of the so-called "web 2.0" and the huge popularity of video sharing, tagging and bookmark sharing sites, Adult needs to keep up.

Of course there will be some growing pains, but things like this have to happen. We can't sit around and let advances in marketing and technology pass by.

Adult used to lead the tech growth on the web.. a shift occurred about three years ago or so.. we definately trail behind now.

[Toby]

Originally Posted by fusionx

Toby - there haven't been any significant questions about it so far, so yeah - we haven't given any answers. Even if a clip is from an affiliate section, if the owner doesn't want it there, it's gone. Simple.

I've posed the question in a couple of forums, and this is the first direct reply.

What you're saying is that unless content owners find their content on pornotube and ask for it's removal, it will remain. That may be enough to cover your ass legally, but ethically it's a cop out. You know as well as I do that for every removal request there will be dozens if not hundreds of pics and vids posted without the authorization of the rightful owners.

The only winners I see here are some program owners that will post their own content and AEBN who will redirect traffic to their own programs, with much of that traffic built upon the illegally posted content of others.

[fusionx]

Originally Posted by Toby

I've posed the question in a couple of forums, and this is the first direct reply.

It's easier and faster if you ask us directly. We don't usually scour the forums to do support or PR/customer service. We usually don't have time.

Originally Posted by Toby

What you're saying is that unless content owners find their content on pornotube and ask for it's removal, it will remain. That may be enough to cover your ass legally, but ethically it's a cop out. You know as well as I do that for every removal request there will be dozens if not hundreds of pics and vids posted without the authorization of the rightful owners.

Please don't put words in my mouth. What I said was, paraphrasing, if copyrighted content is found and reported we remove it. If a user reports it, we look, and we take it down. And believe me, people report everything. We get so many false positives on content it takes up about 6 hours every day to go through the reports.

Originally Posted by Toby

The only winners I see here are some program owners that will post their own content and AEBN who will redirect traffic to their own programs, with much of that traffic built upon the illegally posted content of others.

Again, you are making assumptions without even beginning to understand the model we operate under.

Individual webmasters are doing great with the traffic. Many of them host the vids there and use the vids on their own sites - it's free bandwidth. Studios love it so far, and many programs are encouraging their affiliates to use the service. Watermarked content provides excellent free branding, and you can of course put URLs in the description or even titles if you want.

With all that being said, of course we direct traffic to our own VOD sites, and we direct traffic to our partners and advertisers. We do it all through clicked URLs - no blind links, no skimming, nothing like that.

You'll find we run an open, honest program and we play very nicely with others. We probably give more away to affiliates and partners than anyone else in the biz. I'm not talking about schwag - hats, coffee mugs, trips to costa rica.. I'm talking about substantial biz things like bandwidth, free minutes for their surfers, e-mail campaigns for affiliates, all kinds of stuff.

I'm not going to respond tit for tat here, and I'm not going to argue with anyone on message boards, as far as our business models are concerned. As I said earlier, I don't have the time. If you have questions feel free to write to support or call, and we'll answer your questions.

Are you an affiliate of AEBN? Just curious.

[Senator_x]

Originally Posted by fusionx

It's easier and faster if you ask us directly. We don't usually scour the forums to do support or PR/customer service. We usually don't have time.



Please don't put words in my mouth. What I said was, paraphrasing, if copyrighted content is found and reported we remove it. If a user reports it, we look, and we take it down. And believe me, people report everything. We get so many false positives on content it takes up about 6 hours every day to go through the reports.



Again, you are making assumptions without even beginning to understand the model we operate under.

Individual webmasters are doing great with the traffic. Many of them host the vids there and use the vids on their own sites - it's free bandwidth. Studios love it so far, and many programs are encouraging their affiliates to use the service. Watermarked content provides excellent free branding, and you can of course put URLs in the description or even titles if you want.

With all that being said, of course we direct traffic to our own VOD sites, and we direct traffic to our partners and advertisers. We do it all through clicked URLs - no blind links, no skimming, nothing like that.

You'll find we run an open, honest program and we play very nicely with others. We probably give more away to affiliates and partners than anyone else in the biz. I'm not talking about schwag - hats, coffee mugs, trips to costa rica.. I'm talking about substantial biz things like bandwidth, free minutes for their surfers, e-mail campaigns for affiliates, all kinds of stuff.

I'm not going to respond tit for tat here, and I'm not going to argue with anyone on message boards, as far as our business models are concerned. As I said earlier, I don't have the time. If you have questions feel free to write to support or call, and we'll answer your questions.

Are you an affiliate of AEBN? Just curious.

Branding is so important, I can't believe people can't see this.

Brand your product, upload it to PornoTube and repeat.

[Toby]

Originally Posted by fusionx

It's easier and faster if you ask us directly. We don't usually scour the forums to do support or PR/customer service. We usually don't have time.

Som of my other questions were responded to in those threads, but not that one.

Originally Posted by fusionx

Please don't put words in my mouth. What I said was, paraphrasing, if copyrighted content is found and reported we remove it. If a user reports it, we look, and we take it down. And believe me, people report everything. We get so many false positives on content it takes up about 6 hours every day to go through the reports.

Seems to me we just said the same thing using different words. The fact remains, only copyrighted items that are reported are removed. Given the number of uploads, whether 6 hours or 60 hours are spent per day, there is still a significant amount of unauthorized content that remains.

Originally Posted by fusionx

Again, you are making assumptions without even beginning to understand the model we operate under.

I can only go by what I see on the web site. If there's more to the model please fill us all in.

I do not have my own content to brand and upload. Like the majority of the people on this board I make my living promoting programs owned by others.

As for using your bandwidth, thanks but I prefer to keep my stuff on a server I have control of myself. If a movie gallery is submitted to any of my TGP's with the video hosted on pornotube it wouldn't even get past my submit script, and that's without any modifications to the out of the box settings.

Originally Posted by fusionx

Are you an affiliate of AEBN? Just curious.

Yes, as a matter of fact I am. Ask Gonzo about me he can fill you in.

Bottom line, in my opinion, the end does not justify the means.

[DJilla]

Originally Posted by Toby

What you're saying is that unless content owners find their content on pornotube and ask for it's removal, it will remain. That may be enough to cover your ass legally, but ethically it's a cop out. You know as well as I do that for every removal request there will be dozens if not hundreds of pics and vids posted without the authorization of the rightful owners.

IMHO Not really. This is simply the traditional model that has existed in law for copyright infringement forever. Your negative effects are no different than all those xerox pages out there but when there becomes an obvious and egregious infringement the owner serves notice and etc. Really I think there is not even an ethical quedstion involved. I think you're just seeing a competitive model change and its name is VIDEO. Don't be a hater, be a player, or a quiter.

Originally Posted by Toby

The only winners I see here are some program owners that will post their own content and AEBN who will redirect traffic to their own programs, with much of that traffic built upon the illegally posted content of others.

Though I technically agree, its only because this Pornotuby thing is the first name recognition/bw/scripted site. As others come online to compete for surfers they will add to the choices of type and manner of directing, getting, receiving, traffic and biz relationships.

I think you may be seeing a serious threat to text based LL's from two approaches, first surfers are clearly voting for video, so LL's may get relagated to the visually impaired and accessible audience if they fail to keep up. Secondly, video sites are a direct way for content providers to present their wares directly to the surfer bypassing the middleman LL owners who had previously directed them.

So the next question out there is how do you do this thing and how much bandwidth/computing power does it take?

[Toby]

Originally Posted by DJilla

...Really I think there is not even an ethical quedstion involved. I think you're just seeing a competitive model change and its name is VIDEO. Don't be a hater, be a player, or a quiter.

We're just going to have to agree to disagree here. I think there is a considerable ethical question when the sites enormous traffic base is built upon a the availability of a huge amount of free porn, much of which is uploaded illegally. See the last sentence of Jeremy's post (#29) where he places the shoe on the other foot.

[DJilla]

Originally Posted by Toby

We're just going to have to agree to disagree here. I think there is a considerable ethical question when the sites enormous traffic base is built upon a the availability of a huge amount of free porn.

We don't even disagree I totally see where you're coming from and you are technically right. However, the market based reality is 21st century. Some CEO (Sun I think) years ago annoyed me with the proclamation that "privacy is dead, get over it" but he was right. The same can be said about "copyright is dead". The present model is just thrashing on the doctor's table and you're seeing the reality of it in things like we discussing here.

I would suggest that it is BECAUSE there is so much free porn out there that a site like porntube could be viable.... not the other way around. There has been way too much free porn out there becasue of the intense competition of having so many people in the business who really probably should'nt be there.

This phenomonon has been predicted for many years depending on broadband bandwidth infrastructure growth.

I totally agree that a company doing this had better have some good lawyers though 'cause they'll be in a dozen state courts on lots of bullshit cases.

But video is coming and coming FAST and its clearly what surfers want. WM's who want to stay better figure out how to do it or some version of it. Also, think.... how video transcends the marketplace and limitations of web language and reach. How many Mexican nationals are here on the board? A video site might be seeing international conversions go through the roof.

[Greenguy]

..and just to clear up any possible confusion (because it's happened in the past) Gonzo - you so speak on behalf of AEBN, correct?

[GonZo]

Originally Posted by Greenie

..and just to clear up any possible confusion (because it's happened in the past) Gonzo - you so speak on behalf of AEBN, correct?

I have in the past but above me you have FusionX who speaks on behalf of Pornotube as well as Xpeeps.

If you have any questions on suggestions hes the man to go to.
They are his babies.

[babymaker]

no comment from me