U.S. Insists on Keeping Control of Web

[ArtWilliams]

"GENEVA - A senior U.S. official rejected calls on Thursday for a U.N. body to take over control of the main computers that direct traffic on the Internet, reiterating U.S. intentions to keep its historical role as the medium's principal overseer.

"We will not agree to the U.N. taking over the management of the Internet," said Ambassador David Gross, the U.S. coordinator for international communications and information policy at the State Department. "Some countries want that. We think that's unacceptable."

The rest of the article is here .

Perhaps I am paraniod but am I the only one to think that this is related to the "War on Porn" that the DOJ has started?

---art

[DJilla]

I don't like this admin anymore than the average reasonably thinking person and I'm embarrased to tell people I'm a republican BUT turning it over to the UN would be absurd and who else but the US could you count on to keep it plugged in?

[SirMoby]

We all know the administration wants control over many things. Once wealth gathering becomes boring control is the only thing left. I have mixed feelings about this. While I'm not sure that UN control would be totally absurd I don't get the feeling they're the right organization to have control at this time.

The USA invented the Internet and we have a right to keep control over it. However I do think that control needs to become more international.

[Surfn]

The companies that own and operate the gateways are already multi-national companies. The government just thinks it controls the internet.

In actuality it's owned by people all over the world and if you can't get a consensus in U.S. think how many more times the difficulty gaining a consensus with the entire world.

[Useless]

Originally Posted by DJilla

...and who else but the US could you count on to keep it plugged in?

Are you one of those people that thinks everone outside the U.S. lives in small homes of clay and straw and prepares dinner on a flat rock in the yard? Or do you believe that all non-Americans wait in line for hours for basic items like bread and toilet paper? Or perhaps you think we are somehow smarter and better funded than other nations? On all counts, you'd be wrong.

[SirMoby]

Originally Posted by Useless Warrior

Are you one of those people that thinks everone outside the U.S. lives in small homes of clay and straw and prepares dinner on a flat rock in the yard? Or do you believe that all non-Americans wait in line for hours for basic items like bread and toilet paper? Or perhaps you think we are somehow smarter and better funded than other nations? On all counts, you'd be wrong.

We are better funded. Just ask the central banks of Japan and China. They'll tell you that we are by far the best borrowing nation in history

[ecchi]

The one thing that worries me is that the way the US admin is being run at the moment, the country is only a few years away from a 1930s style depression. Where is Washington going to find the money to keep the 'net running when the crash does happen?

[Jim]

The US Government wants control over the world. Why would the internet be any different?

[DJilla]

Originally Posted by Useless Warrior

Are you one of those people that thinks everone outside the U.S. lives in small homes of clay and straw and prepares dinner on a flat rock in the yard? Or do you believe that all non-Americans wait in line for hours for basic items like bread and toilet paper?
Or perhaps you think we are somehow smarter and better funded than other nations? On all counts, you'd be wrong.

"Are you one of those people that thinks everone outside the U.S. lives in small homes of clay and straw... blah blah"
NO! Duh!

"Or perhaps you think we are somehow smarter and better funded than other nations?"
YES! Duh!

"You'd be wrong."
NOT! Duh!

But seriously, please no one stretch this out as a slam of any other country. There are smart people everywhere who make valuable contributions and are essential to a functioning globe, etc. etc.

BUT, first we did invent it, construct it, pay for it, maintain it, and then willingly offered it to the world TO USE not keep. How much more could anybody want? Any American official that even suggested giving it up should be charged with treason or given electroshock therapy and sent back to local politics. Firstly, though the public has gotten used to it, don't imagine for a minute that it isn't the foremost national security jewel we have.

Secondly, my question really was WHO would you give it to to run (UN is OUT of the question ). No one has our infrastructure? No one has our VOLUME of expertise? No one has our committment to spend WHATEVER it takes.
Are you suggesting that we give them all of our mainframes and clean rooms too or do they have to build their own? Aw heck why not turn over NIH or CDC too? Pure silliness.

At minimum no entity could even be considered that didn't have aircraft carriers that could knock on a door and stop someone from monkey business. So who does that leave, two countries, three? IMHO Bah! Humbug!

[ecchi]

OK, so most of this thread is "personal view" on ones own or other's country, and anyone's view is as good as anyone else's. But wrt "better funded than other nations? -YES! Duh!": DJilla, you got to keep up to date with current affairs. America is so in debt that if it were a company it would be declared bankrupt. And so much of that money is owed to Asian countries that they only got to say "Jump" and the Whitehouse has to answer "How high?"

In other words the USA does not have the final say on anything nowadays, George W. sold that right to the East ages ago.

Just one more reason why I cannot understand why you guys voted him back.

[DJilla]

Originally Posted by SirMoby

We are better funded. Just ask the central banks of Japan and China. They'll tell you that we are by far the best borrowing nation in history

Again, most people forget the power of aircraft carriers. That aside, countries fund our debt because it is a safe place to put their money. There is no friendship when it comes to cash and nobody is doing us any favors. China is financing its slave labor economy with depreciated currency that is returning them by some estimates more than 600% profit. Could you spend some of their paper anywhere? Anywhere? You can't even spend it easily in China (and get value) I know this because a near relative manufactures there and has for fifteen years.
Japan...whatever! If we ever slapped them with tariffs forcing open their markets they woud choke, forget about the banking crisis a few years ago as a result of real estate shenanigans that we bailed them out of. Just like we did the Mexicans under Clinton. Saudis... they were saying the same thing about them twenty years ago (ooohhh they are buying all our debt). France, Germany, et al, are they still countries? Aren't they called the EU now? A combined financial instrument called the Euro that has/had its promise but could fall into collapse at any moment (trust me its true) as a result of politics.

Again, my question is WHO or WHERE ELSE ARE YOU GOING TO TURN TO. There is a reason we are who we are. Nobody is doing us any favors! Now I hate Bush and all his cronies, but bottom line, PR aside, creeps like him come and go. We are who we are with what we have for reasons. All in all we're pretty good guys (and girls) and for the most part still wear the white hats. Right wing, religous, radical, corporate shills can have their brief moment in the sun. It'll work itself out.
The threat is from Corporate power, world trade, and the breakdown of national soverignty. The International Federalists sound touchy feely and all fuzzy and warm, but power is Machiavellian and brutal. I'd rather it be us that has it than anyone else I can see.

And now please excuse me while I stand an recite the Pledge of Allegience....

Heh, heh, heh

[Useless]

Originally Posted by DJilla

Any American official that even suggested giving it up should be charged with treason or given electroshock therapy and sent back to local politics.

Um, ok. I see there's no point in even considering your opinions.

Next.

[DJilla]

Originally Posted by ecchi

In other words the USA does not have the final say on anything nowadays.

Really? I can't tell! Looks like we're doing whatever the frick we want to to me! That's the whole point of the neo con philosphy (which I don't agree with. So impolite). "Screw the rest of the world, we're the ones with the aircraft carriers" (not to belabor the point).

I can't understand how he got reelected either.. though I sort of do. What you have to know is that the religious right began this evil plotting to take over government after desegragation, school prayer, abortion, and the ten commandments stuff hit them in the face decades ago. Liberals and other fair minded folk (of which I include myself) got fat, lazy, and were sold out by democrats feeding at the corporate trough.
Its near impossible to withstand any force that is thinking and plotting against you day in and day out for decades when you are just living your life and not really paying attention. Add to that big money, REALLY BIG money and its no surprise. Big money is always slanted toward facism (WW II) and that's what we have to worry about. What's behind the curtain. Bush is sock puppet and a laughable one at that. IMHO

[SirMoby]

Originally Posted by DJilla

"Or perhaps you think we are somehow smarter and better funded than other nations?"
YES! Duh!

You haven't been paying attention to the real statistics on literacy and education for the past couple of decades have you?

I do agree with you that there doesn't appear to be any organization that would be a great choice to manage the top level domains but that's it.

It takes money to sail an aircraft carrier and fly the plains. Didn't the USSR go into debt to fight wars based on greed?

China is keeping thier currency pegged to the weak dollar for more the none reason. The rest of the world can buy thier goods even more cheaply then we do and they won't any interuption of those goods.

All debt must be repaid at some time.

[DJilla]

Originally Posted by Useless Warrior

Um, ok. I see there's no point in even considering your opinions.

I humbly agree. You are quite right. My only talent is exacerbating a situation and driving those around me nuts. I apoligize, I can't help it. I can take either side of an argument, pull out facts and figures and jump back and forth at will. Nothing I say should be taken seriously, because nothing I say is (except my word in a deal). Personally, I could care less about anything except the environment. If we don't cancel all this chitter chatter about nonsense and pay attention to the global state we're so screwed anyways. So nothing is important to me before that. Everything else is entertainment. I mean no harm and if I offend anyone I will quickly apolgize. If I offend anyone too many times, I will willingly keep my mouth shut and go back to lurking. You all are great and cool with me. Allow me to be the jester and perhaps stir things up a little.... or not!

[DJilla]

"The real statistics on literacy and education for the past couple of decades"
True, true, kinda sad. But, the ironic thing is they're climbing over thmselves coming here for us to teach them! What's up wit dat?

"Didn't the USSR go into debt to fight wars based on greed?"
Actually they imploded and ceased to exist as a nation! How funny was that? Not for their people of course who are living in riduculous third world conditions.

"The rest of the world can buy their goods even more cheaply then we do"
I wish we could learn or try to learn to stop buying so much damn stuff.

"All debt must be repaid at some time."
Always paid back with inflationary dollars which are worth less than money now.

This is been really lively, I gotta go for now.... thanks!

[ecchi]

DJilla, first off wrt "I will willingly keep my mouth shut and go back to lurking": Don't do that, you have a right to your opinion. Even if I disagree with you, even if I think you are wrong, even if I am certain you are wrong; I'll still argue your right to have that opinion, and more importantly, your right to say and post those things (however I'll also argue for the same right to those who say and post the opposite).

WRT "France, Germany, et al, are they still countries? Aren't they called the EU now?": Yes they are all countries, with their own laws, the EU is just a sort of "grouping together" for financial reasons. For example, way back when it was started America was still the major financial power in the world, and if Germany or France objected to US tariffs or if Germany or France tried to put tariffs on America, America could simply say "Fuck You". But when all the European countries banded together they had enough clout to argue on equal terms with the US. And of course today, with America in the state it is in, the EU is now a lot more powerful than the US.

WRT:"A combined financial instrument called the Euro that has/had its promise but could fall into collapse at any moment (trust me its true) as a result of politics" The Euro is just a unit of money. The "Euro" owes no allegiance to any country, if it collapses it has no effect on anything whatsoever.

WRT: "Actually they imploded and ceased to exist as a nation! How funny was that?": Not at all funny when you realise that the US is in the first stages of doing exactly the same thing!

WRT: "Screw the rest of the world, we're the ones with the aircraft carriers": See my last point (and the point you were making that I was commenting on in my last point).

WRT: "Really? I can't tell! Looks like we're doing whatever the frick we want to to me!": I think you answer that point yourself when you say "If we ever slapped them with tariffs forcing open their markets they would choke", because you have not, because you cannot, because you owe them and you dare not.

Just one example: America is flooded with cheap imports from Asia at the moment. American companies are going broke because they cannot compete, and American citizens are living on state benefit because there are not enough jobs to go around, and you (the tax payer) are paying for this. In the EU, before a similar situation occurred, we slapped limits on the quantity of cheap Asian good that could come into Europe. You may have seen on the news recently that when China tried sending more goods than allowed to Britain they were stopped at customs and not allowed into the country (to be fair on China, I think the fault was with the British importers trying to sneak more than allowed into the country, but the result was the same). In the end China had to agree to send even less over in future to compensate for this. But in America you cannot do this, your government dares not do this, they cannot afford to risk upsetting their bankers.

And the frightening fact is that this is an ever declining loop. The more you import, the worse your economy gets, so the more you have to rely on outside loans, so the harder it is for Washington to impose tariffs or limitations, so you have to import even more, your economy gets even worse, your government requires even larger loans, they impose even less tariffs, etc.........

I am afraid you have to face it, if you are an American Asia owns your ass.

[natalie]

LOL LOL LOL.. I am so glad I started in this biz cos I always thought the US people were mostly like DJilla. Thank god I was wrong! And it was hanging out here that made me realise it. However with your fucked up new government and things like the new gun laws in Florida theres no way I would listen to Punani's idea of "lets go live in the US for a while".
I don't see the US as a super power but rather a short man with a little dick. hehe But there are plenty of nice sensible ppl there like many of this boards members.

[Surfn]

Originally Posted by natalie

LOL LOL LOL.. I am so glad I started in this biz cos I always thought the US people were mostly like DJilla. Thank god I was wrong! And it was hanging out here that made me realise it. However with your fucked up new government and things like the new gun laws in Florida theres no way I would listen to Punani's idea of "lets go live in the US for a while".
I don't see the US as a super power but rather a short man with a little dick. hehe But there are plenty of nice sensible ppl there like many of this boards members.

Hey, I resemble that remark

[SirMoby]

Originally Posted by Surfn

Hey, I resemble that remark

You're not that short

[porndragon]

welcome to the "world" wide web based in the usofa hope it stays here but that we get a new president who stops all the belly aching about porn sheesh

[DJilla]

Originally Posted by ecchi

I'll still argue your right to have that opinion, and more importantly, your right to say and post those things (however I'll also argue for the same right to those who say and post the opposite).
.

Thanks for saying that! I am just one sarcastic SOB. Now for some other truths to soothe the feelings of the rest of the world here.

Honestly, the EU is the single greatest amalgamation of disparate peoples ever accomplished in human history, non-violently. A major, major human achievement. Though it is always in a delicate state of political infighting it is a striking move forward for nations that have never really gotton along that well and I'm all for it. I don't know if they're really ready to argue with the US yet, but their day will come and they are certainly trying hard enough. Example: unfortunately the EU has committed hundreds of billions of dollars toward building a duplicate and independent GPS space system (another nifty idea we built and offered the world for free) because they are uncomfortable with our ability to shut ours off at will. How this money could be used better for its member people is sort of obvious. All in all though I really admire the accomplishment called the EU.

Love Asians too! Have a niche site all for them alone. China is scary and they're about to suck every resource left on the planet and the BOMB (but only about two hundred of them... whew!)

Who can't adore those non-violent Aussies with those cute, cute, dingo dogs, kangaroos, and Nicole Kidman. Plus its the only continent likely to survive unscathed in a nuclear exchange. Dual citizenship anyone?

For my hosehead buddies up north, they laugh at all of us and with good reason they invented HYDRO and get it really, really, cheap (real hydro not hydroponics... WHAT! $3500 for how much!!! )!

And for the Netherlands.... WOW! Sex, drugs, rock and roll AND everyone is cool with that, PLUS great skiing.

I am extremely guilty that we as Americans live on top of 90% of the rest of the planet. This is horrid. But, americans are truly great hearted and loving people... really we are. Its just the leaders are corrupt, degenerates. If it makes us guilty by proxy... I can't argue that. But, most of us are happy with a six pack, fishing pole, and good company.

If a final thought is in order its that the best thing about the web is that it opens us to the rest of the world and its people in a way that is hard for the spin miesters to control. Now if they can just get off their lazy asses and exchange the clicker for a keyboard things might get better quicker.

Think peace! Think EARTH! Think now!