The Gop is gonna steal the nov elections again

[Tommy]

another terror arrest

FBI disrupts New York City tunnel plot

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060707/...kxBHNlYwN0bQ--


funny how there werent any arrests for years

all of a sudden there are all these weak terror arrests

They are trying to show the voting public
that they should still be very afraid and only the GOP can protect them

[Cleo]

Prepare to be assimilated by governor BorgBush of Florida, resistance is futile.

[SirMoby]

You didn't know that after the issues in Florida in 2000? What about he exit poles being so far off in Ohio in the districts that no longer use a paper trail?

We haven't been a democracy since he started running for office in 1998.

[Tommy]

I am not a huge fan of bush either but I think I have come to realize the reason I dont like him is mostly religiously based

yes hes sneaky but so is every politician
yes hes lining his pockets but so does every politician

the more I look at it and taking away the religion angle and put aside my bias for being in the porn industry

hes no better or no worse then most other presidents

polls are not scientific

and are almost always pushed in one direction or another
you can change the outcome of a poll just by asking the same question and wording it differently

[docholly]

I think someone watches way too much Fox and the ONLY spin zone.

[Tommy]

who me ?????
no fox for me :-)
I do sometimes watch Bill O Reilly


remember I started this thread
and like I said I dont like bush, he has made a lot of mistakes
I am just not ready to condem him for everything under the sun

I am just trying to point out that when it comes to politics that this board is very left and there are no opposing views

[Jim]

Tommy
Of all the bad events going on now that involves the United States, which one did Bush not cause?

[Tommy]

he didnt cause north korea to fire those missles

hes not to blame for this bullshit coming out of iran

hes not really to blame for high gas prices

the border problem has been here for a long time way before bush

[virgohippy]

Originally Posted by Jim

Tommy
Of all the bad events going on now that involves the United States, which one did Bush not cause?

It's not fair to blame the monkey because the guy in the lab coat gave him the gun! He just didn't know what he was doing.

[virgohippy]

Originally Posted by Tommy

he didnt cause north korea to fire those missles

hes not to blame for this bullshit coming out of iran

hes not really to blame for high gas prices

the border problem has been here for a long time way before bush

Sure, but how about the way his administration is choosing to deal with the problems? Or, better yet, how they're NOT?

[Tommy]

but lets be fair here

look at high gas prices

the oil companies are independant companies operating in a free market

that means they can charge what ever they want
just like YOU can charge whatever you want on your websites

once katrina came along and knocked out all those refineries and drilling platforms
gas prices went thru the roof to around 3.25 a gallon because of the shortages

but the americian public paid it and demand didnt go down
sure they bitched and cryed but they paid it

now let me ask you a honest question
lets pretend your a oil company excutive

you know people will pay over 3 bucks a gallon for gas and even at that price they wont cut back much on their driving

how much would you charge for a gallon of gas

[Useless]

Originally Posted by Tommy

hes not to blame for this bullshit coming out of iran

He and his cronies are FULLY responsible for everything happening in Iraq. It's their unjust war. They sent our troops there. The chaos that occurs due to their decisions is their responsibility. They decided to rape and pillage Iraq and they got just that.

[Cleo]

I was at the gym reading the monitor as Bush was on while on the treadmill.

The text read that Bush was going to be meeting with Congress to discuss presidential power. Later on Bush talked about the GOP gaining control of the House and Senate.

Maybe I've watched too the last Star Wars too many time but Bush reminded me of Senator Palpatine who becomes Sith Lord Sidious.

If Cheney runs for president dressed in a black with a cape I'm moving to an island someplace.

[Tommy]

But UW lets try and be fair here

thats my whole point of what i am saying
you guys blame bush for almost everything and I am sorry. I see a lot of fault but not to the extent that you guys do


if we never went to war with Iraq

your saying that all the bullshit with Iran wouldnt have happened ??

I think it would have been a lot worse
the iranians now know bush will use milltary force and that hes not the kind of guy that just bluffs

and they have americian troops and bases on their border
those troops arent half a world away fliping burgers

they are 100 miles away and combat ready and hardened

[Jim]

Originally Posted by Tommy

he didnt cause north korea to fire those missles

hes not to blame for this bullshit coming out of iran

hes not really to blame for high gas prices

the border problem has been here for a long time way before bush

I never could understand how America can dictate who has nuclear weapons and who doesn't. It seems to me that the last people with that power should be the people that have used them in the past.

Clinton talked to North Korea and had a deal in place. Bush ignored North Korea and probably just hoped they would go away. Bush has also been bribing Iran to not make nuclear weapons and North Korea just wants the same considerations. Bush has proved if you stomp your feet and throw a fit, he will bribe you to stop. While he may not have caused the foot stomping, he could have stopped it if he only talked to them.

As for Iran, you said it yourself in the title of this thread and your first post. Did we just discover that Iran was going nuclear? Or, have we known about it for many years?

High gas prices are not really a problem. We pay less for a gallon or liter of gas than almost any other country in the world. Even at $3/gallon, it's still some of the cheapest liquid we can buy. How much is a pint sized bottle of water these days? And, at $3/gallon, gas prices are still lower than the inflation rate since you might say, gas was cheap. If you follow the inflation rate from 1969 when gas was $.34/gallon until today, we should be paying over $6/gallon.

And again, there is only a border problem if you make one up. A lot of illegal immigrants come to the US and pay taxes. A lot don't pay taxes but still, a lot do. What happens to the refunds or Social Security taxes? These immigrants can't very well ask for a refund. This came out Wednesday. "The economy of the country's largest city and the entire nation would collapse if illegal immigrants were deported en masse, New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg told a Senate committee hearing Wednesday."
http://www.forbes.com/work/feeds/ap/...ap2859726.html

Again, you answered everything you just wrote in your first post. It's all Republican Politics and you do have to look at the party leader for the cause.

[ecchi]

Originally Posted by Tommy

I am just trying to point out that when it comes to politics that this board is very left and there are no opposing views

Speaking as an outsider (non-American) I rarely see a "opposing view" from America. I would say that at least 95% of Americans who have expressed political views are of the view that George w. is an asshole and responsible for most of America's problems. I can honestly say that (going by people I have spoken to or read articles by) a larger percentage of the Europeans think George W. is OK than do Americans. Hell I'd say a larger % of French like George W. than Americans (and the French look for any excuse to say bad things about any American).

[ecchi]

Originally Posted by Jim

A lot of illegal immigrants come to the US and pay taxes.

(Not arguing the point, genuinely asking for clarification.) How do illegal immigrants pay taxes? You need a tax id number to do that, and you cannot get one if you are there illegally.

[SirMoby]

Originally Posted by Tommy

he didnt cause north korea to fire those missles

He needs to sit down and chat with them. Face to face. The USA has lost a lot of pull because we're in debt to China due to Dubya's tax cuts/spending policies and allowing China to peg their currency to US dollars. NK sees Iran pushing the USA around and figures it's time to do the same.

Originally Posted by Tommy

hes not to blame for this bullshit coming out of iran

If Sadaam was still in power he would have rolled his tanks into Iran. Unfortunately when Sadaam tried to open a dialogue (at least 3 times) through his brother's in Jordan sending letters to Dubya they went ignored. Peace could have been achieved through talk but Dubya's supporters want killings instead. The USA can't go into Iran without making things much worse here. They know it. Of course Dubya will either nuke them or at least start some shit right before he leaves office just like his daddy did.

Originally Posted by Tommy

hes not really to blame for high gas prices

That's true. It was Rice that wrote the memos saying that US oil companies need to cut production in order to raise the price of gasoline in the USA and it was Cheney that met with the oil company leaders behind closed doors to define the US Energy policy. Those are the two largest effects.

However, pumping up the Chinese economy while weakening ours, devaluing the dollar and destabilizing the middle east have some effect on gas prices. There's no way to deny that.

Originally Posted by Tommy

the border problem has been here for a long time way before bush

He did not cause this in any way. He did nothing about it until it became an election issue at the exact same time that the feds decided to stop producing the M3 report. He is not to blame for it all. I don't think that Clinton or Gore would have done much to prevent it either. I do think he's using it to draw attention away from the lack of the M3 report. It's in his friend's best interest and it's also the best way to print fake money for about 2 years. Isn't that how long he's in office?

[SirMoby]

Originally Posted by ecchi

(Not arguing the point, genuinely asking for clarification.) How do illegal immigrants pay taxes? You need a tax id number to do that, and you cannot get one if you are there illegally.

Actually it's estimated that 30% of illegals pay taxes. It's estimated that 70% of business that hire illegals do NOT pay taxes. Just nother reason why it's so profitable.

Imagine how much money the IRS could get if they went after this money. Of course they've decided to go after the smaller business instead.

[SirMoby]

Originally Posted by ecchi

Speaking as an outsider (non-American) I rarely see a "opposing view" from America. I would say that at least 95% of Americans who have expressed political views are of the view that George w. is an asshole and responsible for most of America's problems. I can honestly say that (going by people I have spoken to or read articles by) a larger percentage of the Europeans think George W. is OK than do Americans. Hell I'd say a larger % of French like George W. than Americans (and the French look for any excuse to say bad things about any American).

You're talking with Americans that are smart enough to communicate with people from other countries. Most conservative republicans that I know are either very wealthy or so close minded that they think there is no reason to speak with anyone that even lives in another part of the USA much less in another country.

It's really scary in places where Dubya supporters hang out. A difference of opinion is met with extreme anger or just plain hate. The capability for rational discussion is almost nonexistent. Not all but at least 9 out of 10.

[Useless]

Originally Posted by Tommy

But UW lets try and be fair here

thats my whole point of what i am saying
you guys blame bush for almost everything and I am sorry. I see a lot of fault but not to the extent that you guys do

I don't extend my argument to anything outside of Iraq. I'm only referring to what has happened in Iraq since we invaded. My sense of global politics isn't large enough to go beyond that.

[Jim]

Originally Posted by ecchi

(Not arguing the point, genuinely asking for clarification.) How do illegal immigrants pay taxes? You need a tax id number to do that, and you cannot get one if you are there illegally.

Fake tax ids. A lot of employers genuinely don't know they are hiring illegals. Sooner or later, it catches up with the employer but only for submitting inaccurate TINs. They are fined about $20 per TIN. I know that's what I was fined for submitting inaccurate TINs

[Tommy]

also these are not easy problems

and the Arabs want it complicated

there isn't a clear cut solution to any of these things

fucking around with a country's that have nuclear capabilities is VERY DANGEROUS

remember most of their nuclear programs are probably a lot further along then they let on
we keep shit like that classified why wouldn't they

so of course he has no choice but to play nice for now


Jim I feel the same as you
Gas is way under valued, I feel sorry for the average Joe and that the increases are cutting in to his wallet but everything sooner or later goes up

Sir Moby do you really think the CEO of Exxonmobil needs Rice or Cheney to tell them how much they can charge

these are billion dollar company's and they have the best and brightest people this country has to offer

just like when they talk about refineries
its all bullshit
do you REALLY belive Big Oil couldn't build a refinery if they wanted to

we are sticking nuclear waste in yucca mountain

But big oil with all their lobbyists and political contributions
cant get a refinery approved... Cmon Please


UW the muslems were getting a bit uppidty and someone needed to get bitch slaped :-)

are you wrong about the war , no your not but your not exactly right either

[Jim]

Originally Posted by SirMoby

Actually it's estimated that 30% of illegals pay taxes. It's estimated that 70% of business that hire illegals do NOT pay taxes. Just nother reason why it's so profitable.

Imagine how much money the IRS could get if they went after this money. Of course they've decided to go after the smaller business instead.

Imagine how much the IRS gets from the 30% that pay taxes There are millions of illegal imigrants working in the country now. That is a shitload of money going unclaimed.

I just like to consider it rent for working in the US.

[Tommy]

and 30% is nothing

we end up paying all the medical bills
they use our roads, our police and all of our goverment services

in fact they cause our goverment services to spend more money

if they obyed the law and came here legally then they wouldnt have to worry about not getting their money back from social security

thats why I really like the Fair Tax act
http://www.fairtax.org

it removes federal withholding and replaces it with a federal sales tax

which means no more IRS, no more forms to file
employers wouldnt have to withhold anything

and this way all the illegals would have to pay federal taxes
every one of them would pay their fair share of taxes