the future of tgps and link lists (maybe)

[Tommy]

I am just saying anything is possable

Now lets take it a step further.
The trades you have with other tgps and linksites
could have revshare codes in the link urls

[Dr Bizzaro]

I think the big site's traffic would drop off and grow smaller and smaller by the day....while sites that remained free would flourish with new traffic.

[bret]

Originally Posted by Dr Bizzaro

I think the big site's traffic would drop off and grow smaller and smaller by the day....while sites that remained free would flourish with new traffic.

But the quality of that traffic would be much better... When revenues drop enough, some of the bigger sites will try this.

[Linkster]

Dare - ya hit on a point thats been on my mind for a long time - and that is that the sponsors expect that their sites get advertised for free by us - by linking the submitters sites - we dont get jack for that service - and for that matter the submitter never gets really whats due them but thats another thread.
Im sure someone will bring up the argument that without the submitters, we wouldnt have sites to link to - we all know thats not true - between the sponsors giving away hosted free sites and galleries we have more than enough to load a well run TGP or LL - added of course to the pool of LL/TGP owners own free sites and galleries - hell - thats why most TGPs dont need submits from outside - they get enough to list everyday just from their trusted friends that run other TGPs.
The rampant explosion of sponsors lately has been due to the fact that they dont have to budget for advertising, other than to drag more WMs to their programs on boards like this - which is why theyve been able to cut way back on their staffing - the people that used to do the pushing of sites to the public for them arent needed right now.
Theyve about driven some of the best content companies out of the biz with their free giveaways - WMs dont need to buy content anymore for their own advertising.

I totally agree that the people with the traffic need to start getting back to the old model of advertising - some still do it with certain banner placements on som LLs and TGPs, but that is definitely becoming a minority. Its time for sponsors to meet the real world.

[Linkster]

One point I left out - Im still of the firm belief that the sponsors should be the ones paying for the submitters to be able to submit to places that now charge - why should a hard-working WM have to pay for the traffic thats going to the sponsor and hope that this weeks ratios might give them a sale - after scrubbing and other things that the sponsors might do

[Tommy]

Originally Posted by Linkster

One point I left out - Im still of the firm belief that the sponsors should be the ones paying for the submitters to be able to submit to places that now charge - why should a hard-working WM have to pay for the traffic thats going to the sponsor and hope that this weeks ratios might give them a sale - after scrubbing and other things that the sponsors might do

HMM I would love to get my submit pass in the ars rewards store

[Chop Smith]

Originally Posted by Linkster

...and that is that the sponsors expect that their sites get advertised for free by us - by linking the submitters sites - we dont get jack for that service - and for that matter the submitter never gets really whats due them but thats another thread.

Linkster, this is not quite a true statement. As I stated above, the sponsors are paying for advertising - revenuse share or pay per signup. I agree that if you don't list hosted sites from the sponsor that you 'don't get jack'. Unless the sponsor is submitting directly to you, they are paying for advertising either to you for listing the hosted site or to the submitter for building and submitting to you.

And again as I stated above, I agree 'the submitter never gets really whats due them'

[Linkster]

Originally Posted by Chop Smith

Linkster, this is not quite a true statement. As I stated above, the sponsors are paying for advertising - revenuse share or pay per signup. I agree that if you don't list hosted sites from the sponsor that you 'don't get jack'. Unless the sponsor is submitting directly to you, they are paying for advertising either to you for listing the hosted site or to the submitter for building and submitting to you.

And again as I stated above, I agree 'the submitter never gets really whats due them'

I guess Im still out of the loop here - the revshare or pay per sale is paid to the submitter (sometimes) wheras I dont get anything for sending that traffic to the submitters site and eventually to the sponsor - leave the advertising that is done on the linklist or tgp out of the loop for a minute as that is an entirely different issue that we've kinda lumped together here (I did it too)
Dependant on the submitters selling ability, the sponsor is giving them something - not very much when you compare it to mainstream advertising even on the main side of the web.
The work of the linklist or tgp owner is totally free to both the sponsor - and currently the submitter in most places - I think the overall idea here is that we can charge the submitter (which in my mind has always been the last option) or charge the sponsor for clicks delivered to the submitter - then its up to the sponsor to really help the submitter improve his sale ratios like they used to

[Useless]

Originally Posted by Linkster

I guess Im still out of the loop here - the revshare or pay per sale is paid to the submitter (sometimes) wheras I dont get anything for sending that traffic to the submitters site and eventually to the sponsor...

But you get the traffic due to the content infested sites being built and submitted by free site builders. There is an important relationship here that everyone is missing. Submitters/builders can't make a dime without link list and TGP traffic. But the link lists and TGPs only have traffic due to years of good sites and galleries being built and submitted. Sure, you could go ahead and stop accepting submissions and list only FHGs and HFSs, but you know that that will kill your search engine traffic due to the lack of back linking and decrease bookmarkers because of the lack of quality.

[Chop Smith]

The loop is closing.

Originally Posted by Linkster

...the revshare or pay per sale is paid to the submitter

Exactally, either to the sumitter or you as the LL owner if you list the hosted sites. Regarless, of who the sponsors pays the revshare or PPS, it is part of the sponsors' advertising budget.

Originally Posted by Linkster

Dependant on the submitters selling ability, the sponsor is giving them something - not very much when you compare it to mainstream advertising even on the main side of the web.

Now don't tell me that in your brick and motar business that your adverising makes up 50+% of your total budget.

Originally Posted by Linkster

The work of the linklist or tgp owner is totally free to both the sponsor - and currently the submitter in most places

True, unless you are using the sponsors' HFS/Galleries and/or charging the submitter for listing. Tommy has stated that the 'submit charge' was successful.

Originally Posted by Linkster

I think the overall idea here is that we can charge the submitter (which in my mind has always been the last option) or charge the sponsor for clicks delivered to the submitter - then its up to the sponsor to really help the submitter improve his sale ratios like they used to

This tread started as being a discussion on charging the surfer. Just assume these things - LLs and TGPs charge a submit fee paid by the submitter; they charge the surfers to view the submits including HFS/Galleries and as stated the sponsor is paying thru revshare/PPS. Who is not getting compensated? You can not charge the sponsors for PPC and expect them to pay revshare/PPS to the submitter.

When I started my little program, I asked Dr B if he rather me pay his charge for submitting or would it be better on him to list the hosted galleries. He stated that let him list the hosted galleries - that way if we made in sales he would be happy and I would also. My point is that we were both gambling - me that he would list the hosted galleries and him as to where I could convert the traffic he sent me to sales.

Repeating myself from another post in this tread, this biz has three groups that need to be in sync - LL/TGP owners, submitters and sponsors. I think Tommy's orginal thought implies and I agree - the surfers are the one that is getting the free ride.

[Opti]

Originally Posted by Tommy

I am just saying anything is possable

Now lets take it a step further.
The trades you have with other tgps and linksites
could have revshare codes in the link urls

I think this might make it possible... and incorporate a central public counter service too... that sells adpsots on behalf of each site like adbrite.com

Been working on a system like this for my personal network of sites.

[whitey]

Right before the visa regulations impacted avs's, we had a softcore, fetish tgp site that we began charging for access to the non blind site that included hardcore galleries.

We made a ton of cash in three months before the visa/avs shit hit the fan. The avs we were using for access kicked us off. We tried to get another avs interested, but it was not easy.

Once one had a billing model, the possibilities of marketing this concept are endless Tommy.

We are right there with you. The problem, im my mind, is the billing model. We have proven that the concept works already.