Internext/AEE passes anyone :) - AVN SUCKS!!!!!

[RawAlex]

Linkster, you hit it again: AVN needs to run their shows to the benefit and to match the desires of webmasters. What we saw this past year in Miami with the "must have a badge to enter the hotel" certainly seemed to be more of an effort to squeeze money onto the bottom line than it was to fix any real issues that were outstanding. I understand that it was a result of a full hotel takeover and such, but the WAY it was approached was very difficult for many people to accept.

I think they realize that they got screwed on badges in Vegas last year, where most people couldn't get a badge, and many didn't even try. Most of the business got done in places that AVN couldn't charge for a badge, which is just not good for them.

The Venetian is a much better place for AVN to run a show. No a single real good place for a group of people to sit between the casino and the show floor - and it is a fuck of a long hallway. The mooching factor at the venetian will be much lower than it was at the Mandalay.

Running the show at better times of the year (miami about now, maybe Vegas is March?) would be much more condusive to the way we all do buisness. Interrupting holiday plans to scamper off to vegas for a show and to be forced to pay the absolute maximum rates for the whole year in vegas seems a little bit of a weird way to do business. I understand what it does for the AEE show... but we don't need to be there.

My bet? Next year it will be called the AEE Internext show and there will be no discussion of two seperate shows, just an area for internet people where the general public cannot access.

Alex

[Far-L]

Ok...

Going to respond to all of you in this reply...

1. AVN/Internext has tried reaching out, but you all have to admit that Aly took a beating, Tom Hymes got pounded on, everyone that has tried to have a discussion typically gets tarred and feathered.

2. I offer myself as the next in line for the punishment. I stand on both sides of the fence, as old school brick and mortar guy and web operation - so I humbly submit that I am a good person to stand in the middle and broker a peace.

3. Greenie (love ya too) please understand that I was just saying why I like being there during CES and not why anyone else SHOULD for any reason at all.

4. If you all have suggestions for panels then let me know now and I will do anything possible to make them happen. I want topics, speakers, ideas of any kind.

5. I will get feedback from Renee regarding dates and the what, where, why, how of it all so everyone has a better understanding.

6. I don't care what you do but anytime you try to please a majority then a minority is going to be pissed. Consequently, if the big sponsor programs are the ones paying for the booths and free booze then naturally they are going to be catered to in the other areas of the show as well. How many of you link list folks have ever bought a booth? That doesn't mean that your input should be ignored though and we all know that usually the traffic panels are the most heavily attended seminars. Conversely, that means LL and other related people should have a special place in a webmaster show, imo.

7. I have asked for and received special price considerations for amateurs that would not otherwise have been able to afford it so I know that it is not all about the money. There really is a catholic effort to make the benefits of attending available to all concerned.

[Ramster]

Originally Posted by Far-L

6. I don't care what you do but anytime you try to please a majority then a minority is going to be pissed. Consequently, if the big sponsor programs are the ones paying for the booths and free booze then naturally they are going to be catered to in the other areas of the show as well. How many of you link list folks have ever bought a booth? That doesn't mean that your input should be ignored though and we all know that usually the traffic panels are the most heavily attended seminars. Conversely, that means LL and other related people should have a special place in a webmaster show, imo.

What does this have to do with the dates of the show?

When the dates were announced on GFY and other boards, 95% of every webmaster said the same thing we are saying. This sucks! It is going to be expensive and way too busy.

And the sponsors want webmasters. They don't care that the CES is going on. Most of them (I'd assume) are glad it is "close to" the AEE show because it saves them travel time/costs coming back to attend but it will still save them if the show followed these shows and didn't run at the same time.

I understand what you are doing Far L and appreciate your postings. If you want suggestions for your boss then here is a legitimate one. From now on make the show like it was in the past. On different dates from the AEE. Just before or just after. Moving venues or wahtever is a stretch but just before or just after is not.

[Far-L]

Originally Posted by Ramster

What does this have to do with the dates of the show?

When the dates were announced on GFY and other boards, 95% of every webmaster said the same thing we are saying. This sucks! It is going to be expensive and way too busy.

And the sponsors want webmasters. They don't care that the CES is going on. Most of them (I'd assume) are glad it is "close to" the AEE show because it saves them travel time/costs coming back to attend but it will still save them if the show followed these shows and didn't run at the same time.

I understand what you are doing Far L and appreciate your postings. If you want suggestions for your boss then here is a legitimate one. From now on make the show like it was in the past. On different dates from the AEE. Just before or just after. Moving venues or wahtever is a stretch but just before or just after is not.

AVN is not my boss... lol.

I am one of the owners of Homegrown Video/Xplor Media and New Destiny Internet Group.

I just like the folks at AVN and I am trying to foster a better relationship for all. The magazine and the shows have been good for biz for us so I am trying to do them a favor out of appreciation.

This year the shows were combined for reasons beyond their control. It won't be like that in the future.

What month and place do you suggest?

[Linkster]

Originally Posted by Far-L

This year the shows were combined for reasons beyond their control. It won't be like that in the future.

What month and place do you suggest?

Unfortunately this discussion of dates and places comes up every year - and the reply is always the same - nothing. Suggestions are made and discussed, but no reply ever comes out - of course Im of the opinion that it never would change as I sure would set up a negotiated schedule quite a few years in advance and I would hope that AVN is smart enough to do the same.
So I dont think that this part of the discussion will go anywhere based on prior history

[Far-L]

Originally Posted by Linkster

Unfortunately this discussion of dates and places comes up every year - and the reply is always the same - nothing. Suggestions are made and discussed, but no reply ever comes out - of course Im of the opinion that it never would change as I sure would set up a negotiated schedule quite a few years in advance and I would hope that AVN is smart enough to do the same.
So I dont think that this part of the discussion will go anywhere based on prior history

Agreed and thanks for your gracious and informed responses.

At least if you knew when those contracts could change you would have more to work with input-wise.

I am going to get as much feedback here as possible and set up a meeting with AVN/internext this week so give me about a week to get back with responses.

Until then, this input is incredibly useful.

[Greenguy]

I'm thinking that I might want to change the topic of the Radio Show tonight

Originally Posted by Far-L

1. AVN/Internext has tried reaching out, but you all have to admit that Aly took a beating, Tom Hymes got pounded on, everyone that has tried to have a discussion typically gets tarred and feathered.

I agree that they got pounded & I really did forget about why there was so much hatred towards AVN at them time, but now I remember:
http://www.greenguysboard.com/board/...ad.php?t=17808
http://www.greenguysboard.com/board/...ad.php?t=17640
You take those 2 threads into account with the thread on Miami's show & you can hopefully see why we had a bad taste in our mouths about AVN in general.

Plus you really do have to throw in there that a lot of the changes that AVN made for Miami were not told to anyone on this board before they went into place. Not that they have to answer to us for what policies they do & don't implement, but they also have to be able to accept the consequences of negative feedback when they put in what are silly ideas for the betterment of the convention.
- No one needs to fill out that long ass form to get a badge - name, address, URL & CC info is all that's really needed - you think they need to know how much I make? How many sites I have? Useless info that would be used to sell off mailing lists to other companies.
- Increased cost for wireless throughout the hotel - is there really a need to be able to surf in the lobby when your room is a 30 second elevator ride away?
- $250 for the only option of an all access badge for seminars that I would not being going to. If anything, the 2 separate badge prices - floor & floor/seminar - should have never been done away with. If they're not making money with the seminars, then don't offer them. And I really can't see them loosing money with the seminars, as I've spoken on a panel in Vegas & all I got was a badge - no money. (oddly enough, I've not been asked back - LOL)
- It was announced that the hotel only going to be porn people this past year - but that policy had been in place for the 3 years prior, so them using that to justify a price increase is ridiculous.
- I would have spent $3000 on hotel, airfare & the badge before I left the house for Miami - sure, I would have gotten a free breakfast & lunch a couple of the days I was there, but I can eat cereal & fruit at home

Originally Posted by Far-L

6. I don't care what you do but anytime you try to please a majority then a minority is going to be pissed. Consequently, if the big sponsor programs are the ones paying for the booths and free booze then naturally they are going to be catered to in the other areas of the show as well. How many of you link list folks have ever bought a booth? That doesn't mean that your input should be ignored though and we all know that usually the traffic panels are the most heavily attended seminars. Conversely, that means LL and other related people should have a special place in a webmaster show, imo.

1st off, we not all Link List people here - there are quite a few of us that run Link Lists & since this is pretty much the only board that caters to Link Lists, I can see why we are looked at in that light, but I don't really consider myself just a Link List owner - I wear many hats & so do all the Link List owners here on the board

Now, I want you to think back to the last 4 or 5 conventions - Vegas & Miami - and think about the parties that you've gone to & tell me how many parties you got into with just the AVN badge. I can't think of a party that I've been to in the last 3 years that I got into with just the badge - you need a pass or a VIP pass or a VIP VIP pass And that's the way it should be! Would you really want to throw a party for people that do no promote Home Grown? Let everyone & their brother into the party to eat & drink on your tab? Sponsors should use parties to take care of those that promote them, and they are doing that by issuing passes to who they want to attend.

As far as the booths, I've never had one that was my own, but I've worked them for Condom/Netpond & Adult Netsurprise & I can honestly say that no one joined either board because of what me & my fellow webmasters were doing there at the booth. Plus working the booth sucks ass

Who was the big sponsor at Vegas in Jan? Talk of the town for about 2-3 weeks after? You probably don't remember, because from what I've heard, they blew most of their money on the booth & I haven't seen a check from them in months.

No one cares anymore who has the biggest booth & the show floor has been shrinking the past few years because sponsors know this.

2 years ago in Vegas all I wanted to do was get a hospitality suite for board members to hang at, have a couple of cocktails & shoot the shit. I could not get my own suite because I did not have a booth on the floor. I'm not even talking about a party that would have been advertised to the masses - I could not get a suite to hold a private party because I did not have a booth.

Originally Posted by Far-L

7. I have asked for and received special price considerations for amateurs that would not otherwise have been able to afford it so I know that it is not all about the money. There really is a catholic effort to make the benefits of attending available to all concerned.

That's great - but why is there this hierarchy in the 1st place? Why not make it affordable for everyone & not just a discount when you beg them to make things a little less for the average everyday webmaster?

Wanna come on the Radio Show tonight? (8-9 PM EST) We do have 2 other topics that we need to get taken care of on the show, but we can squeeze you in. Of maybe next show (Nov 29th as we're going to be on hiatus for 2 weeks due to the schedule of the Buffalo Sabres)

[Linkster]

Originally Posted by Greenguy

As far as the booths, I've never had one that was my own, but I've worked them for Condom/Netpond & Adult Netsurprise & I can honestly say that no one joined either board because of what me & my fellow webmasters were doing there at the booth. Plus working the booth sucks ass

That's great - but why is there this hierarchy in the 1st place? Why not make it affordable for everyone & not just a discount when you beg them to make things a little less for the average everyday webmaster?

Two great points GG - although on that first one keep in mind that when we were working the booth the only one that didnt have a hangover was MML

The hierarchy question is a great one - it was one of the points brought up right before the last Miami show as well due to the standard rate for everyone affecting the ability of sponsors bringing in "talent" - I believe that Aly tried to intercede with AVN on that question however I have no idea what ever happened - if I remember correctly some arrangement was made for the local hires to get in cheaper for specific hours during the day - remember you had to have a badge to get into the hotel for that show.

If AVN does "negotiate" rates for people that would greatly disappoint me as that would be a slap in the face to those webmasters that cant afford to go to their convention.

[MrMaryLou]

Originally Posted by Linkster

Two great points GG - although on that first one keep in mind that when we were working the booth the only one that didnt have a hangover was MML

Ok I am a sissy LOL I was too busy with boob hats

[Linkster]

Originally Posted by MrMaryLou

Ok I am a sissy LOL I was too busy with boob hats

Nahh - just the smarter one out of all of us

[Far-L]

Originally Posted by Linkster

Two great points GG - although on that first one keep in mind that when we were working the booth the only one that didnt have a hangover was MML

The hierarchy question is a great one - it was one of the points brought up right before the last Miami show as well due to the standard rate for everyone affecting the ability of sponsors bringing in "talent" - I believe that Aly tried to intercede with AVN on that question however I have no idea what ever happened - if I remember correctly some arrangement was made for the local hires to get in cheaper for specific hours during the day - remember you had to have a badge to get into the hotel for that show.

If AVN does "negotiate" rates for people that would greatly disappoint me as that would be a slap in the face to those webmasters that cant afford to go to their convention.

There is not a hierarchy - everyone is treated equally when it comes to right down to it - we had to do a booth and run special seminars on our tab to make it worthwhile for all. My point was simply that they were willing to work with us and went beyond just trying to line their own pockets with cash.

[Greenguy]

Originally Posted by Far-L

There is not a hierarchy - everyone is treated equally when it comes to right down to it - we had to do a booth and run special seminars on our tab to make it worthwhile for all. My point was simply that they were willing to work with us and went beyond just trying to line their own pockets with cash.

But based on that statement, they did line their pockets with YOUR cash so that others could attend an affordable convention.

Sure, everyone's happy, but in the end, you paid the difference.

[Far-L]

Originally Posted by Greenguy

But based on that statement, they did line their pockets with YOUR cash so that others could attend an affordable convention.

Sure, everyone's happy, but in the end, you paid the difference.

Nope, not with our cash either except for the booth which we tend to do anyway so that was no big deal.

The other money we raised to have a roundtable and they didn't see a dime of that - yet they did give us massive exposure including full page ads in the show guide - which means they were the ones putting out the money. So if you ask me that is proof positive that they are not all about the money.