An Open Thread To AVN & Internext...

[Far-L]

Originally Posted by Useless Warrior

I was going to ask a question, but I just read that I'm not supposed to form an opinion unless I speak to AVN directly upon said opinion's conception.

Far-l, this is how webmasters communicate with each other. This is how we toss around ideas and opinions. If AVN is too big to read the boards, even if a thread is addressed directly to them - fuck 'em. Most of us really don't even care enough to contact AVN. Why? Because they don't seem to care about us. (and some of us are dead sexy) The same shit gets expressed for every show, yet nothing seems to change. I've never been to an AVN extravaganza. I consider attending each and every time, yet I've never been convinced that it's worth the investment.

They have made and effort to be on the boards. Even well liked people like Aly took regular bashings as a result. However, conversely, when webmasters have problems then the best place to start resolving them generally is off the boards.

Obviously, this is an issue that should be resolved publicly - but even still covering it on all the boards would be tough.

You have never even been to a show so I am not sure what basis you feel qualified to so vehemently criticize them. I still think that you are entitled to your point of view so if you feel like addressing your issues then come to the show tonight.

[GonZo]

Originally Posted by Far-L

They have made and effort to be on the boards. Even well liked people like Aly took regular bashings as a result. However, conversely, when webmasters have problems then the best place to start resolving them generally is off the boards.

Obviously, this is an issue that should be resolved publicly - but even still covering it on all the boards would be tough.

You have never even been to a show so I am not sure what basis you feel qualified to so vehemently criticize them. I still think that you are entitled to your point of view so if you feel like addressing your issues then come to the show tonight.

I always said whatever they were paying Aly wasnt enough for the shit we were all giving her.

Looks like I was right too!

Rick has a find in her...shes one of the most professional people Ive ever encountered in this business. The way she handled herself during all of that was astounding and I'll never have a quarter of her patience and diplomacy skills.

On the other side of this issue I will have to say that some of the minor suggestions we had for the Florida show were implimented. So they are listening just not to the degree that we all would like for them too.

Ill have to say that no matter who puts on a show... AVN,Ynot,The Zoo or even Lightspeed... I have always been able to justify each and every trip I have taken.

In some instances it may be more difficult than others. I think success at a show is measured more by a person/company's skill with planning and execution of goals.

That being said...personally I expect Vegas to be my biggest show ever! In spite of the prices, crowds etc etc.

Everyone has known about the situation since August. What each of us has chosen to do about it will determine your amount of success.

[Useless]

Originally Posted by Far-L

You have never even been to a show so I am not sure what basis you feel qualified to so vehemently criticize them.

I criticize them for all of the reasons that I have for not attending one of their shows.

Since my question really doesn't imply anything negative about AVN or the show, I'm going to go ahead and toss it out there. I've asked this question mulitple times in the last 2-3 years and usually get the same reply from my fellow webmasters, but I'd love AVN's take on it.

Why SHOULD an eternally small webmaster like me attend Internext and will the reason(s) justify the expenditure?

[Greenguy]

Originally Posted by Useless Warrior

...Why SHOULD an eternally small webmaster like me attend Internext and will the reason(s) justify the expenditure?

Best question asked in this thread

[Far-L]

Originally Posted by Greenguy

Best question asked in this thread

The answer though is painfully obvious - to network and learn from one's peers and leaders in the industry.

AVN has historically done the biggest shows that have attracted the widest range of people - that is their most apparent asset.

[Toby]

Originally Posted by Far-L

The answer though is painfully obvious - to network and learn from one's peers and leaders in the industry...

Agreed. However, it's the escalating costs of attending and the associated decline in the number of peers attending that is making many of us question if attending Internext is still cost effective.

[Far-L]

Originally Posted by Toby

Agreed. However, it's the escalating costs of attending and the associated decline in the number of peers attending that is making many of us question if attending Internext is still cost effective.

That is something well worth addressing.

[Useless]

Originally Posted by Far-L

The answer though is painfully obvious - to network and learn from one's peers and leaders in the industry.

So then it's not worth it? Ha! I kill me.

You were supposed to save the answer for the radio show. Besides, when you toss in everyone elses' complaints and concerns, it really mucks up your answer. Some would say that networking and learning are difficult enterprises in the show's current state. Additionally, the cost factor is critical for a guy like me. I'm a hazardous combination of poor and cheap. I really want to go to Internext, I really do, but it's going to take a lot to make me think that it's worth shelling out the dough. (I also realize that it isn't AVN's job to convince me to go.)

Thank you for your responses, Far-l. I've heard good things about you and it is nice to see an obviously respected individual standing up for AVN.

[Far-L]

Originally Posted by Useless Warrior

So then it's not worth it? Ha! I kill me.

You were supposed to save the answer for the radio show. Besides, when you toss in everyone elses' complaints and concerns, it really mucks up your answer. Some would say that networking and learning are difficult enterprises in the show's current state. Additionally, the cost factor is critical for a guy like me. I'm a hazardous combination of poor and cheap. I really want to go to Internext, I really do, but it's going to take a lot to make me think that it's worth shelling out the dough. (I also realize that it isn't AVN's job to convince me to go.)

Thank you for your responses, Far-l. I've heard good things about you and it is nice to see an obviously respected individual standing up for AVN.

Thanks - I agree with you that figuring out a cost so that even the lower income members can attend is important.

Please bear in mind that I did ask for a discount arrangement for amateurs and they went out of their way to accomodate the request.

I have not always had a rosy relationship with AVN - but I can go into that on the show...

[docholly]

Originally Posted by Far-L

The answer though is painfully obvious - to network and learn from one's peers and leaders in the industry.

Originally Posted by DangerDave

Especially when success is achievable without ever attending Internext

DD

I seem to recall one of the best networking experiences took place in a non descript house in Greenwood..

and in attending last year, I did more business outside of convention than inside.. which could be replicated using the aforementioned camhouse and backyard..

*flashing eyes at Far-L*..

[DangerDave]

Why SHOULD an eternally small webmaster like me attend Internext and will the reason(s) justify the expenditure?

I'd have to actually consider spending $20,000-27,500 for 4 days in Vegas.

Especially when success is achievable without ever attending Internext

DD

[Chop Smith]

Originally Posted by DangerDave

Especially when success is achievable without ever attending Internext

This is very true.

The best money I ever sent in this business was the trip to Surfn and Dr B's first Chicago meeting. Small enough to remember who you met.

Right after then carried a shit load of shirts and hauled ass to Vegas. I spend a couple grand to go to Vegas specifically to meet some GG&J board members. Never regretted the cost of the trip because doors started opening for me. I am not that successful but the Chicago and Vegas trips sure moved me closer to my goal.

However, small regional shows might be the place to do business and Vegas might be where you go to gamble

[Surfn]

Thanks Chop I know that was my goal. Make everyone comfortable and do some bidness


Look for an announcement from me on or about January 15th for a spring gathering

[Linkster]

Far-L - you know I respect you and always have, that said I know that your view on this is based on your niche and "thrust" of business with the cross-jumping into the AEE and other opportunites that are provided with the current show format - it makes sense for you to fully support the show the way it is developing - heck I sure would. there are two points that I always have stinging in the back of my mind though - the first being the "deals" that you are able to make for your amateurs - which although I fully respect you for being able to do so - kind of grates on quite a few amateur site owners that read this - I'm pretty sure they aren't going to post their thoughts, but it kind of stinks for them as they don't have the recognition or background to be able to negotiate anything with AVN. Again this is not to take anything away from you - it's just one symptom of a system that is broken.

Second - over the last 4 or 5 shows, I have seen and heard over and over on boards like this (and you know as well as I do that this is not the only board with threads like this), that there are a huge majority of webmasters that are the people trying to eek out a living just barely, who have no interest whatsoever in crossover to the video side of adult entertainment, who are the trench webmasters trying to find a way to network with their peers, but are flabbergasted by the prices, the locations and times that generate those prices, and the general apathetic responses by the creators of the event. These are the 80% WMs - the majority that cannot go to these shows because of the prices, that although they would love to network with their peers, are relagated to listening to the sponsors talk about the parties they went to, the 20% that can afford (most just barely) the cost of the show talk about the great networking that went on and (the worst of all) the total silence from AVN about any changes that might be made to give the "trench WMs" a chance to take part in their industries premier annual show.

Just my opinion again but its based on a hell of a lot of conversations with those "trench WMs"

[furrygirl]

Originally Posted by Linkster

there are two points that I always have stinging in the back of my mind though - the first being the "deals" that you are able to make for your amateurs - which although I fully respect you for being able to do so - kind of grates on quite a few amateur site owners that read this - I'm pretty sure they aren't going to post their thoughts, but it kind of stinks for them as they don't have the recognition or background to be able to negotiate anything with AVN. Again this is not to take anything away from you - it's just one symptom of a system that is broken.

As an amateur site webmaster, I thought I'd reply.

I actually take no offense to AVN not trying to work around me. I don't expect to have the clout of a top adult company, that's silly.

It's my decision to spend the $2500 or so for the experience, or stay at home and read webmaster board archives for a week, for free, in my pajamas. Or it could be my decision to be pro-active and positive and organize a local adult webmaster gathering in my own city that best suits the needs of that group.

I just don't feel conned or ignored, although OF COURSE I'd like it to cost me less. And OF COURSE I'd like it if more people attended, but you can't put on a large-scale business event that is cheap enough for *anyone*.

Seriously, how inexpensive does it have to be to be inclusive of the tiniest "webmasters in the trenches"? $1000 for the whole trip? $500? That's where regional conventions and local webmaster hangouts come in handy, in my mind.

If I wanted to bitch about other businesses not listening to my needs, I'm more inclined to be pissed off that credit card companies charge us exorbitant fees for processing because they encourage customers commit fraud against adult sites.