Sponsors - an idea?? maybe??

dareutwo · 2003-12-11, 07:55 PM

I hate spam as much as the next person here... so I gave this some thought today.
I turn in between 5 to 10 email spammers to sponsor per week.
(obviously the ones I use so I know the TOS)

As a sponsor, would it work to pay a finders fee for turning in the emails?
It's against the TOS, so ALL funds are forfeited anyway correct?
Assuming (and don't give me that assuming stuff)
The sponsors have the money already.
It is no longer payable to the spamming webmaster correct?
Would a 10 or 20% finders fee be out of line?
Or is this money simply added to the bottom line as a cost of doing business? (which I would understand too)

For sponsors, charge backs should decrease, and it would give an added incentive to us receiving hundreds of emails a day to weed out the spam.

Or did I over think this whole problem??? LOL

Extreme John · 2003-12-11, 08:57 PM

Good idea, probably not one that we would entertain though, as it opens up the door to some sort of dishonesty, or the ability to have dishonest business between affiliate & sponsor. IMHO.

Greenguy · 2003-12-11, 09:09 PM

Not to mention that a few sponsors tend to look the other way

Ramster · 2003-12-11, 10:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Greenguy
Not to mention that a few sponsors tend to look the other way

Unless the complaints get real bad, many do. At one of the shows I was at a Very big sponsor admitted that they do to an extend. He said, let's face it we're here to make money and spam makes money. But if it's bad then they do what they can and will shut down a spammer if needed.
Only because they don't want the heat that could come down on them.

Sumrpal · 2003-12-12, 10:32 AM

Yes, the unfortunate thing is that spam works. The 'public' complains and complains about it, yet it's the 'public' that perpetuate it by clicking and buying off the damn things.

Many sponsors do look the other way because, frankly, it's money in the bank for them.

Extreme John certainly makes a good point ... if you put a bounty on it, then some jerk will send out spam emails using an affiliates email addy, then report them to the sponsor as being "guilty of spamming".

What a world we live in, eh?

MrMaryLou · 2003-12-12, 11:24 AM

Oh I so hate spammers

RawAlex · 2003-12-12, 12:25 PM

here's the rub:

1 - There is no proof I have seen that people who signup as a result of spam are more or less likely to charge back or cancel

2 - There is no simple way to prove that an affiliate account has been terminated, and for the most part, that termination still leads the traffic to the target site, where sales are made and the affiliate spammer makes no money because they were cancelled>

2a - there is no way to prove that an affiliate isn't in fact the program operator just giving himself a buffer to look good.

3 - spam mail is still very cost effective - it doesn't take much to make it go.

4 - because spam is a fairly dishonest business, most spammers aren't going to complain if they get shaved a bit.

5 - Some program operators run their own spam operations, or contract out to specific spammers to run those operations for them, hidden behind a thin cloth of (2a).

Until there are more prosecutions for fake headers, and until someone finally puts out a replacement for SMTP (the protocol that encourages fake headers) you won't see spam go away.

Alex

Ramster · 2003-12-12, 01:10 PM

Excellent Post Alex!

Jim · 2003-12-12, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Greenguy
Not to mention that a few sponsors tend to look the other way

Actually, more sponsors than not, enjoy email type advertising

DangerDave · 2003-12-12, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jim
Actually, more sponsors than not, enjoy email type advertising

Thats is sad...

I am 100 % with Mr ML..

DD

Tommy · 2003-12-14, 07:16 PM

ya know i did some investigating on some of the spam i receive

I am very good at gathering infomation
a few of you who know me can vouch for that

and more then a few times it looks like its the sponsor sending the spam and disgusing it as a reseller

here's a thought

all those images that the spam has
have to be able to load in every browser/email program
and even on domains for the people who get view mail thru yahoo or hotmail, etc etc etc

which means they really cant protect them
you could just hotlink the images

sign up for the same sponsors and instead
of serving your own ads....
serve theirs.........
with your linking code of course

and when somebody starts screaming about the hotlinking
ya know exactly who the spam came from

RawAlex · 2003-12-14, 08:28 PM

I am aware of two major sponsors (one still with us, one now part of another company) that used major levels of spam to pay the bills. One was sending 5 - 8 million emails per day, one was sending closer to 20 million per day (sometimes 3 or 4 different spams to the same address each day!). When confronted with the facts, one of the companies worked it out for me not to be bothered anymore... the other one is now part of another company, and no longer appears to use mail as a marketting product.

I have no problem with opt in mailers, I run a few myself. However, unwanted, unasked for spam is a pain in the ass. One sponsor right now that I have signed up for a couple of different programs even has the balls to spam the webmaster signed emails about a month after you sign up. I got them once, I thought it was just chance, but then it showed up again a month later on a second program, and I knew the deal. I intend to have a quiet discussion with the principal(s) of this company when I see them in Vegas.

In the end, SMTP makes spam easy - and the risk / reward calculations make it too easy to figure out.

Alex

Extreme John · 2003-12-14, 09:34 PM

Alex is all over it on this thread, nice work, nice posts.

I look at Spam in a few different ways, because I like everyone else get nailed with it non-stop all day long, and on the other hand I email my cancels (although we dont trade lists, buyt lists, or buy spam options from others).

Spam for me as a web surfer is just another form of advertising, I still to date have never purchased anything from a place that sent something to my email box. I also feel it's just another form of advertising, I cant control TV commercials, I cant control radio commercials (shit even XM Radio has commercials now and I pay for that shit!), I cant control billboards or the kids on the side of the roard on a Saturday afternoon looking to wash cars, I cant stop the local school in front of Wal-Mart from asking me for cash on my way in and out of the store, I cant stop the Local Schools, Church's or other companies from knocking on our front door to ask for donations, purchase shit from the school to help pay for whatever. it goes on and on, it's advertising, if I dont like it I delete it, or change the channel, radio station, ignore the side of the roaders, the kids in front of wal mart and let my dog answer the door. I understand excessive sucks, BUT it's profitable, it's business, some are more aggressive with it, others are illegal, and others dont use it at all.

On the other hand I have seen some excellent income generated off of our cancels and expired accounts. if someone wants to Op-Out they can, or if they want to buy and maybe forgot about us, I just helped them remember

2003-12-11, 07:55 PM	#1
dareutwo You can't disprove anything with evidence that doesn't exist Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: NW Minnesota - pop 865 +/- 1 Posts: 2,038	Sponsors - an idea?? maybe?? I hate spam as much as the next person here... so I gave this some thought today. I turn in between 5 to 10 email spammers to sponsor per week. (obviously the ones I use so I know the TOS) As a sponsor, would it work to pay a finders fee for turning in the emails? It's against the TOS, so ALL funds are forfeited anyway correct? Assuming (and don't give me that assuming stuff) The sponsors have the money already. It is no longer payable to the spamming webmaster correct? Would a 10 or 20% finders fee be out of line? Or is this money simply added to the bottom line as a cost of doing business? (which I would understand too) For sponsors, charge backs should decrease, and it would give an added incentive to us receiving hundreds of emails a day to weed out the spam. Or did I over think this whole problem??? LOL __________________ This is me Mark's-Links

2003-12-11, 08:57 PM	#2
Extreme John Afro John says: "Touch The Extreme Afro & You'll Be In Extreme Pain!" Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: FL Posts: 1,671	Good idea, probably not one that we would entertain though, as it opens up the door to some sort of dishonesty, or the ability to have dishonest business between affiliate & sponsor. IMHO. __________________ September 6, 2007

2003-12-11, 09:09 PM	#3
Greenguy The Original Greenguy (Est'd 1996) & AVN HOF Member - I Crop Pics For Thumbs In My Sleep Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Blasdell, NY (shithole suburb south of Buffalo) Posts: 41,929	Not to mention that a few sponsors tend to look the other way __________________ Promote POV Porn Cash By Building & Submitting Galleries to the Porn Luv Network

2003-12-12, 11:24 AM	#6
MrMaryLou i fucking told i type to fucking fast wtf Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: New York Posts: 11,247	Oh I so hate spammers __________________ <a href="http://www.greenguysboard.com/onthebench/">Join Me For On The Bench </a>

2003-12-12, 01:10 PM	#8
Ramster Life is good Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Ottawa, Canada Posts: 11,868	Excellent Post Alex! __________________ Pornstar Legends \| Live Cam Model Shows \| Hungarian Girls Skype: robmurray999

2003-12-12, 10:32 AM	#5
Sumrpal If something's hard to do, then it's not worth doing Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Canada Posts: 241	Yes, the unfortunate thing is that spam works. The 'public' complains and complains about it, yet it's the 'public' that perpetuate it by clicking and buying off the damn things. Many sponsors do look the other way because, frankly, it's money in the bank for them. Extreme John certainly makes a good point ... if you put a bounty on it, then some jerk will send out spam emails using an affiliates email addy, then report them to the sponsor as being "guilty of spamming". What a world we live in, eh?

2003-12-12, 12:25 PM	#7
RawAlex Took the hint. Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 5,597	here's the rub: 1 - There is no proof I have seen that people who signup as a result of spam are more or less likely to charge back or cancel 2 - There is no simple way to prove that an affiliate account has been terminated, and for the most part, that termination still leads the traffic to the target site, where sales are made and the affiliate spammer makes no money because they were cancelled> 2a - there is no way to prove that an affiliate isn't in fact the program operator just giving himself a buffer to look good. 3 - spam mail is still very cost effective - it doesn't take much to make it go. 4 - because spam is a fairly dishonest business, most spammers aren't going to complain if they get shaved a bit. 5 - Some program operators run their own spam operations, or contract out to specific spammers to run those operations for them, hidden behind a thin cloth of (2a). Until there are more prosecutions for fake headers, and until someone finally puts out a replacement for SMTP (the protocol that encourages fake headers) you won't see spam go away. Alex

2003-12-14, 07:16 PM	#11
Tommy NYC Boy That Moved To The Island Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 2,940	ya know i did some investigating on some of the spam i receive I am very good at gathering infomation a few of you who know me can vouch for that and more then a few times it looks like its the sponsor sending the spam and disgusing it as a reseller here's a thought all those images that the spam has have to be able to load in every browser/email program and even on domains for the people who get view mail thru yahoo or hotmail, etc etc etc which means they really cant protect them you could just hotlink the images sign up for the same sponsors and instead of serving your own ads.... serve theirs......... with your linking code of course and when somebody starts screaming about the hotlinking ya know exactly who the spam came from

2003-12-14, 08:28 PM	#12
RawAlex Took the hint. Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 5,597	I am aware of two major sponsors (one still with us, one now part of another company) that used major levels of spam to pay the bills. One was sending 5 - 8 million emails per day, one was sending closer to 20 million per day (sometimes 3 or 4 different spams to the same address each day!). When confronted with the facts, one of the companies worked it out for me not to be bothered anymore... the other one is now part of another company, and no longer appears to use mail as a marketting product. I have no problem with opt in mailers, I run a few myself. However, unwanted, unasked for spam is a pain in the ass. One sponsor right now that I have signed up for a couple of different programs even has the balls to spam the webmaster signed emails about a month after you sign up. I got them once, I thought it was just chance, but then it showed up again a month later on a second program, and I knew the deal. I intend to have a quiet discussion with the principal(s) of this company when I see them in Vegas. In the end, SMTP makes spam easy - and the risk / reward calculations make it too easy to figure out. Alex

2003-12-14, 09:34 PM	#13
Extreme John Afro John says: "Touch The Extreme Afro & You'll Be In Extreme Pain!" Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: FL Posts: 1,671	Alex is all over it on this thread, nice work, nice posts. I look at Spam in a few different ways, because I like everyone else get nailed with it non-stop all day long, and on the other hand I email my cancels (although we dont trade lists, buyt lists, or buy spam options from others). Spam for me as a web surfer is just another form of advertising, I still to date have never purchased anything from a place that sent something to my email box. I also feel it's just another form of advertising, I cant control TV commercials, I cant control radio commercials (shit even XM Radio has commercials now and I pay for that shit!), I cant control billboards or the kids on the side of the roard on a Saturday afternoon looking to wash cars, I cant stop the local school in front of Wal-Mart from asking me for cash on my way in and out of the store, I cant stop the Local Schools, Church's or other companies from knocking on our front door to ask for donations, purchase shit from the school to help pay for whatever. it goes on and on, it's advertising, if I dont like it I delete it, or change the channel, radio station, ignore the side of the roaders, the kids in front of wal mart and let my dog answer the door. I understand excessive sucks, BUT it's profitable, it's business, some are more aggressive with it, others are illegal, and others dont use it at all. On the other hand I have seen some excellent income generated off of our cancels and expired accounts. if someone wants to Op-Out they can, or if they want to buy and maybe forgot about us, I just helped them remember __________________ September 6, 2007