AVS Sites vs. Free Sites - Which do you prefer?

[ronnie]

Originally Posted by zeta

Free sites get traffic
I belive thats all there is to say

I think I am not the only one wondering.... Huh?

[BOONESTOONS]

It all depends on three factors, the AVS team itself, you, and the other AVS webmasters.

With an AVS you're giving the surfer a gillion times more bang for his buck. That means your site(s) have to be neato-nifty and other webmasters have to keep up as well.

The AVS has to make sure they have a crack staff without outsourcing to death, futzing up scripts, not handling processor updates etc.

One screwup and the whole thing can unravel.

My best bet is look at the niche you're approaching and find an AVS that's good for that. Also watch out for bringing in a new niche. I did that with one AVS many years ago and the next thing you know they pumped in dozens of hack cartoon/hentai sites almost overnight and then got real stupid with not answering webmaster questions etc. I dropped them like a hot potato.

Also don't put all your eggs into one basket either. Combine AVS sites with other sites.

[oldbrad]

Ronnie, i think they just mean the freesites get the traffic because more link lists will list freesites but not too many take avs submissions.

Brad

[LD]

I'm just getting into avs, and with sheepguy's excellent help, I've got some of the ground rules down and have started to get some traffic. I didn't realize there were so many list that accepted avs, but sheepguy has quite a few on his website, and after he explained a few little avs oddities, I am getting lots of listings. No sales yet, though.

For sheepguy and others: is there any benefit to doing exclusive sites, or should you build a site and list same one on two or more avs list?

[BOONESTOONS]

Originally Posted by LusciousDelight

I'm just getting into avs, and with sheepguy's excellent help, I've got some of the ground rules down and have started to get some traffic. I didn't realize there were so many list that accepted avs, but sheepguy has quite a few on his website, and after he explained a few little avs oddities, I am getting lots of listings. No sales yet, though.

For sheepguy and others: is there any benefit to doing exclusive sites, or should you build a site and list same one on two or more avs list?

Good for you. Sheepguy's an old pro. For me AVS was so easy. Just put up site and money rolled in. Got too complacent though didn't expand like I should have. It's because I do commission work as well as signups and rebills so I get extra, extra.

[ecchi]

Originally Posted by zeta

Free sites get traffic
I belive thats all there is to say

So when did you last get a fat cheque from people PAYING to visit your free site?

I agree with Sir Moby's comment "every free site I built was designed to promote and AVS site of the same niche", except that only about 50% of my free sites are aimed at my AVS, the rest go to other projects (and I also 'hedge my bets' by having a few sponsor adds too, in case the surfer does not trust AVS or is already a paid up member of the AVS I am pushing).

[Triton2004]

In AVS is more money...

[Allfetish]

Originally Posted by 4thaloveofdough

Okay I did a post on PPS vs. Revshare, now it's time for AVS vs. Free Sites. I've tried promoting AVS sites a few years ago and had no luck, but I gave up without really putting any effort into it. My question is, do you really get better conversion ratios with AVS? I know people say that since visitors are proven to be willing to use their credit card sales are better, but is this really true or just theory? What are your past experiences with AVS?

My observations.

AVS:

+ Slightly better traffic quality when it comes to the initial hit (after first getting listed). But after this initial hit, freesite traffic has a slight edge.

- About 100 - 400 hits per day per major AVS listing for the first few days when you get near the top of the list. After that the amount sent averages to about the same as freesites.

- Can be harder to create sites for than freesites, or easier. Depends on the AVS. But with most of the major ones in order to get the most hits you have to create a premium site for their premium program. Most of these premium programs want ungodly amounts of content and hassle.

- Some AVSs have rules such as no watermarks (they say no large watermarks, but it effectively ends up the same) on the content in order to get listed. This will hurt you if you use sponsor content.

+ If your site gets delisted, generally you have the advantage of knowing about it and will be able to resubmit it right away. Even if you have 500 sites. Absent special arrangements, you can't do this with freesites.....usually. So overall your sites are probably goign to be listed longer on AVS.

- Internal AVS is usually outside the public area these days. This means those internal pages are not indexed by search engines. This is in contrast to your freesites which ARE indexed by search engines usually. So do not expect SE traffic from the internal AVS.

- AVSs tend NOT to like people who do not actively sell their program and generate signups. They consider people doing upsells only to be leaches. Some will start making excuses to not list you, or may even just flat out ignore you.

- You probably aren't going to make much money just doing AVS and relying on upsells these days. You need to sell the AVS as well.

+ You can typically submit more than one site in theory to the AVS per day. Some allow 3 - 5, others are in theory unlimited. But try submitting 100 sites a day for a month withiut making a single AVS sale and see what happens.

Freesites:

Well, my fingers are tired now from typing all that.
The above should be enough details. Hope it helps.

[4thaloveofdough]

Originally Posted by Allfetish

- Some AVSs have rules such as no watermarks (they say no large watermarks, but it effectively ends up the same) on the content in order to get listed. This will hurt you if you use sponsor content.

This was something I was wondering about because isn't it kinda wrong to charge someone to view a SPONSORS content anyway?

I was thinking that I would make a few AVS sites for each niche I promote and promote them with my freesites using one of my outgoing links like Sir Moby and ecchi said.

Thanks for the input everyone, it's been very helpful.

[oldbrad]

Have to check each programs tos, but as long as you promote the sponsor too it should be fine.

Brad

[SheepGuy]

What it comes down to is this IMO.
-Don't rely on the AVS for traffic or SE help. If you want to make money you still have to work for that yourself. You will get some traffic from the AVS, but if you rely on that as your sole source you will go broke.
-Always sell the AVS service first, sponsors second, especially in the case of premium sites that give you recurring income. With premium I don't try to sell anything but the service on the public pages. Save the ads for the inside pages where you have cc carrying surfers who have paid for porn in the past.
- It's tough to make money with premium AVS's using watermarked sponsor content. That's pretty much the way it is.
- You can still make money with watermarked sponsor content on basic AVS sites or "free" AVS sites like Sexkey or FreeNetPass, just don't expect a lot of hits from the AVS.
-If you can build premium AVS sites they retain members far better than any paysite because they give surfers a shitload more than any paysite. Recurring income is very nice to have!!
-It's faster and easier to build a basic AVS site than it is to build a free site and you can advertise almost as much on them as on free sites. And what you advertise on the inside is only being seen by surfers with credit cards who have paid for porn in the past.

AVS's are just part of a business model, not all of it, I do well with them.

[Allfetish]

Originally Posted by SheepGuy

-It's faster and easier to build a basic AVS site than it is to build a free site and you can advertise almost as much on them as on free sites.

Yes. Some AVS systems are more lax on requirements too. Some are very ridiculous. I am going to avoid naming names but I know of one which was insisting on 468x60 banners with a text link under each one, AND for a while was trying to get everyone to sepearate it from the content with a horizontal rule. On top of that only one banner was allowed per page, with no more than either four or six banners total. I finally decided they aren't really worth the hassle for trying to get upsells and dropped them.

[Allfetish]

Originally Posted by 4thaloveofdough

This was something I was wondering about because isn't it kinda wrong to charge someone to view a SPONSORS content anyway?

Most of the sponsors do not mind as long as you are promoting only them on those pages. Some do mind (check the terms), others will want you to email the url to the avs sites for approval.

One thing about AVS is that it is nothing like it used to be and progressively gets worse part due to conversions, another part due to lowered payouts, and another part due to the AVSs own actions such as taking the linkslist off of public pages or raising site requirements.

I started out doing AVS in late 1998. You used to be able to simply throw up a site and earn $50+ a day from people signing up from the AVS public list alone (none of your own real traffic). I'm not kidding or exaggerating here one bit as hard as it may seem to believe for anyone who is kind of new to this. Makes ya wish you had time machine, doesn't it?

[LD]

I learned about the watermarks the hard way at CA. The termonology is a little odd, they "accept" your site, but it doesn't show up on list or the search function. Guess how much traffic you get...

I am now trying to get some traffic to those sites by listing on some list that accept avs sites. Also, I have some sources for non-watermarked content...in general I enjoy building them as it is a little different and less structure...time will tell if it pays.

One question: the signup revenue looks nice, but does most revenue come from that, or from sponsor links (as in freesites..) ?

[SheepGuy]

Originally Posted by Allfetish

Yes. Some AVS systems are more lax on requirements too. Some are very ridiculous. I am going to avoid naming names but I know of one which was insisting on 468x60 banners with a text link under each one, AND for a while was trying to get everyone to sepearate it from the content with a horizontal rule. On top of that only one banner was allowed per page, with no more than either four or six banners total. I finally decided they aren't really worth the hassle for trying to get upsells and dropped them.

I know the AVS you're talking about, and they don't even accept new WM's anymore, and while I still get paid and can add new sites, I'm kind of wondering how much longer they will last. They have added a couple of innovations lately that are pretty good for existing wm's, but they are so rule-obsessive that they haven't seen the big picture in a very long time. I still promote my sites with them, but if they do go tits up I can switch them to other AVS's pretty quickly.

[SheepGuy]

Originally Posted by LusciousDelight

I learned about the watermarks the hard way at CA. The termonology is a little odd, they "accept" your site, but it doesn't show up on list or the search function. Guess how much traffic you get...

I am now trying to get some traffic to those sites by listing on some list that accept avs sites. Also, I have some sources for non-watermarked content...in general I enjoy building them as it is a little different and less structure...time will tell if it pays.

One question: the signup revenue looks nice, but does most revenue come from that, or from sponsor links (as in freesites..) ?

Usually, for me at least, most revenue comes from the AVS signup, but I build a lot of premium sites so it likely would be different for someone just doing basic or "free" AVS sites.

[phunlee]

Hey everyone, I found this thread and am new to the board, so I thought I would ask everyone's opinion on AVS sites.

I was an adult webmaster part-time from late 98-01. Now that many things have changed, I've decided to get back in the business.

I used to make some money from AVS sites like AdultCheck and AgeCheck (now CyberAge) as well as a few others like Netverifer (I think they actually had a free AVS service, too.)

I used to make some coin, especially AgeCheck.

Can anyone give me an idea of what's happened with them over the last seven years?

[xxxman]

I used to make 200k+ from adultbouncer from last seven years, had a site with 800 members there, but I've leave them sinice something changed.

[Fonz]

Originally Posted by phunlee

Hey everyone, I found this thread and am new to the board, so I thought I would ask everyone's opinion on AVS sites.

I was an adult webmaster part-time from late 98-01. Now that many things have changed, I've decided to get back in the business.

I used to make some money from AVS sites like AdultCheck and AgeCheck (now CyberAge) as well as a few others like Netverifer (I think they actually had a free AVS service, too.)

I used to make some coin, especially AgeCheck.

Can anyone give me an idea of what's happened with them over the last seven years?

If you made $100 in 1998 you'll make $2 now. It's way harder to get a sale these days then it was 10 years ago. If you're still looking for the quick buck you're better off speculating on the stock market. Even the most seasoned webmasters are complaining about their drop in sales.

Now about AVS sites, I'll let Sheepguy handle that one

[Star Man]

I started off in the biz in 2003 (I think) with a AVS site.The members section was just my own collection of 30 second freebie facial cumshot movies I downloaded from other porn sites.I was surprised it even got approved for promotion by my AVS sponsor at the time.I forgot what happened but for some reason I never ended up promoting it.