Saying hello and getting to know...

[UglyDaz]

Hi.
I'm UglyDaz.
I'm a photographer from the UK who has fumbled his way into webmasteringy... er whatever.
Anyway feel free to tell me what I'm doing wrong - or perhaps even right (if that's possible).
I can take a joke so feel free to poke fun but I'll probably poke you right back. I'll be asking all the stoopid questions about how to get better at what I do and I'm definitely looking for help to grow more traffic in N. America so anyone wanting to assist there will be welcome.
My sites are:
TeenModelTara
and
NewBeautyCollective (which I use mainly to test the suitability of new models).
I work mainly with never before seen girls which makes what I do more difficult but much more exclusive.
Feel free to ask questions, poke fun, point out glaring errors and anything else that comes to mind.

[Fonz]

Hi there and welcome to the board.

First thing I noticed on TeenModelTara was the lack of text. All your "text" are graphics which won't get you much SE traffic since they base their search results on real text for a big part.
Also I'd get rid of that "exit" link that points to google, google has enough traffic.
And I don't understand why you offer the surfer to buy a $25 1 month without rebills membership while you also offer a $25 for the first month recurring membership. You should ask more for the non-recurring membership so the surfer will be more eager to sign up for the recurring option.

Just my 2 cents

[FuckingBastard]

hello and welcome aboard

[HowlingWulf]

I think you're putting the cart before the horse trying to open a paysite without knowing how it all works. Trying promoting other sites first with galleries/freesites/blogs/etc and seeing how they do things. Also you could try selling your exclusive content via a broker like club-xstream.com

[kickass]

Hello and welcome!

[UglyDaz]

Originally Posted by Fonz

Hi there and welcome to the board.

First thing I noticed on TeenModelTara was the lack of text. All your "text" are graphics which won't get you much SE traffic since they base their search results on real text for a big part.
Also I'd get rid of that "exit" link that points to google, google has enough traffic.
And I don't understand why you offer the surfer to buy a $25 1 month without rebills membership while you also offer a $25 for the first month recurring membership. You should ask more for the non-recurring membership so the surfer will be more eager to sign up for the recurring option.
Just my 2 cents

Cheers for that. I know my text is all graphics and kept meaning to add it to the tags but never got round to it... I'll make time now.
I use Google as an exit because it's safe to direct people to and most people use it.
Lastly, I found that when the single signup was more expensive than the repeat, people simple went for the repeat option to get a cheaper deal and then immediately canceled the rebill. Your idea looks right on paper but just doesn't work in practice - for me anyway. I offer a discount on the actual rebill as long as they remain for that and this is stated clearly on the pricing page.
Cheers anyway for the hints - always useful to know what others think.

[UglyDaz]

Originally Posted by HowlingWulf

I think you're putting the cart before the horse trying to open a paysite without knowing how it all works. Trying promoting other sites first with galleries/freesites/blogs/etc and seeing how they do things. Also you could try selling your exclusive content via a broker like club-xstream.com

I'm not saying I know everything but I do think I'm reasonably competent enough to run a website. To be fair, I know people running blogs and promoting other people's sites and what they do would take as much learning to become an 'expert' as what I'm already doing. The assumption that running an affiliate site is easier than any other site is just plain wrong in my opinion.
Also I see webmasters running sites all day long without any sense as to what constitutes decent content or quality photography so I think it's fair that if they clearly struggle in the area of content, I should be allowed to at least ask questions (because that's all I said) in my area of deficit.
On the subject of webmastery versus content... it always amazes me that some people still imagine that a fantastically built site with crap content (and I know of many like this) will make a customer happy whilst a basic site with decent content will somehow put customers off!???
I wouldn't eat in a flash restaurant that served dismal food - would you? And I like the look of some Ferraris but if mine had wooden seats in it I'd soon get rid.
I refute the idea that an expert in computers and the net necessarily has the edge over content providers in this game. Where would you be without dumb 'toggers who actually spent their lives learning how to make what others then resell?

[UglyDaz]

If I waited forever to perfect my internet skills I'd never have found this hottie:



And then I'd have been such a crap photographer that I'd never have been able to grab her and teach her to model!

[UglyDaz]

Any help beyond telling me to give it up as a bad job and resign myself to just reselling other people's crap will be welcomed thanks.
Help and advice generally means "assistance in moving forward" not showing someone the exit sign.

[UglyDaz]

More of Ellie:

[UglyDaz]

Smore...


This is what people sell... my hard work! (I'm too busy to do what you do so why not assist me instead of complaining and then make money? Everywhere I post this girl she is a big hit!)

[hashbury]

Welcome to greenguyandjim UglyDaz
Nobody in this thread told you to give it up nor was anyone complaining.
Howlingwulf suggested that you try being an affiliate to see how they run things. This is real good advice, If you know how to make sales as an affiliate, you will be able to supply your affiliates with the know how and the tools for them to make sales.

You may think you have a nice site and a cute girl, but the truth is there are tons of them out there. Webmasters are already promoting these other sites. So you need to find a way for them to promote your sites, and you will need webmasters if you want to make decent sales. I would put a webmasters link on the bottom of your main index page. Another thing webmasters might not trust a solo girl site as much as a regular paysite. In 2 or 3 years or less that model could change her plans and move out of the porn biz. It happens all the time.

You should setup an affiliate area for your webmasters and get them all the tools they need. FHG's RSS feeds flv's and even some hosted freesites. Once you get an affiliate area setup, you should spend some $ on advertising. This board has great sponsors and i try to promote them all. We will all be willing to help you, but if you dont like the advice its not going to do you much good.

[UglyDaz]

Originally Posted by hashbury

Welcome to greenguyandjim UglyDaz
Nobody in this thread told you to give it up nor was anyone complaining.
Howlingwulf suggested that you try being an affiliate to see how they run things. This is real good advice, If you know how to make sales as an affiliate, you will be able to supply your affiliates with the know how and the tools for them to make sales.

You may think you have a nice site and a cute girl, but the truth is there are tons of them out there. Webmasters are already promoting these other sites. So you need to find a way for them to promote your sites, and you will need webmasters if you want to make decent sales. I would put a webmasters link on the bottom of your main index page. Another thing webmasters might not trust a solo girl site as much as a regular paysite. In 2 or 3 years or less that model could change her plans and move out of the porn biz. It happens all the time.

You should setup an affiliate area for your webmasters and get them all the tools they need. FHG's RSS feeds flv's and even some hosted freesites. Once you get an affiliate area setup, you should spend some $ on advertising. This board has great sponsors and i try to promote them all. We will all be willing to help you, but if you dont like the advice its not going to do you much good.

Hi there.
Big thanks for the advice from yourself there!
My main problem with affiliates is that nobody has ever really bothered to actually tell me what an affiliate wants - and I'm serious. Other boards I have looked in on seem to be full of code-heads who just want to moan about how the recession is hitting them and snipe at each other. I'm very positive about what I do and actually have no problem with my traffic and conversions at present. My shooting schedule is relaxed, updating takes a couple of hours and I can schedule that to be very convenient for me. I just ask for help and assistance because that's a polite way of saying that I'm not pretending to know it all (which I obviously don't).
On the subject of being an affiliate - it does sound like good advice for me to go off and spend some time being an affiliate but there are two issues to this.
1. Why don't all affiliates try my job then too, they may be more sympathetic to me. It's always photographers having to 'understand' how hard the affiliate life is and how much they have to do. Do they really think my job is easy? I've seen people try (and fail miserably) to consistently come up with good sets of 100+ usable images day-in day-out. It really isn't done by magic.
2. I already act as an 'affiliate' for my own sites - I do my own marketing (about 30 minutes a day!) and make a wage from it so I must be doing something right.

[hashbury]

1. In all honesty why should an affiliate care about you being a photographer? They are here to make money just like you. All they want is good support and good promotools so they can do their job, promote your program. I have been a PA on a couple of video shoots and i know the frustration and the hassel, but you have a program now and need to look at it from a program owners position. If you sre a great photographer use it to your advantage by making the promo tools with your best work. Just try to keep in mind you are a program owner and you must also think like one.

2. Being an affiliate is not easy if you became an affiliate and didnt have any help you would probally fail too. You say you do 30 mins a day of marketing, but most affiliates work 10+ hours a day if not more. This is where you really need to understand what they do and how they do it. If you understand the life of an affiliate you will be able to see what they need to succeed, and if your affiliates succeed so will you

Im not saying your doing anything wrong im just letting you know how to increase your profits. No matter what you do in this bis there is always something you can do to make it better. You should sign up as an affiliate for a few companys and see what kind of tools they offer their affiliates. Bottom line is, get an affiliate section and get some banners and other promo stuff up for the webmasters to use.

Doing what your doing now is a good start, getting on the forums and asking questions will help a lot. Ill be more than happy to help and so will most members on here.

[Useless]

Originally Posted by UglyDaz

Lastly, I found that when the single signup was more expensive than the repeat, people simple went for the repeat option to get a cheaper deal and then immediately canceled the rebill. Your idea looks right on paper but just doesn't work in practice - for me anyway.

That means your content isn't as good as you think it is. Trust those of us with experience - that re-billing concept DOES work in practice.

What I'm seeing is someone who is absolutely clueless about what he/she is doing, but has too big of an ego to properly absorb the advice and constructive criticism being given. The posters in this thread are trying to help you, though I don't know why. Try shutting your mouth, re-reading what they've posted, and attempt to understand that it is genuine, friendly advice from people who have been working this industry, from multiple angles, for years.

[HowlingWulf]

Originally Posted by UglyDaz

I'm not saying I know everything but I do think I'm reasonably competent enough to run a website. To be fair, I know people running blogs and promoting other people's sites and what they do would take as much learning to become an 'expert' as what I'm already doing. The assumption that running an affiliate site is easier than any other site is just plain wrong in my opinion.
Also I see webmasters running sites all day long without any sense as to what constitutes decent content or quality photography so I think it's fair that if they clearly struggle in the area of content, I should be allowed to at least ask questions (because that's all I said) in my area of deficit.
On the subject of webmastery versus content... it always amazes me that some people still imagine that a fantastically built site with crap content (and I know of many like this) will make a customer happy whilst a basic site with decent content will somehow put customers off!???
I wouldn't eat in a flash restaurant that served dismal food - would you? And I like the look of some Ferraris but if mine had wooden seats in it I'd soon get rid.
I refute the idea that an expert in computers and the net necessarily has the edge over content providers in this game. Where would you be without dumb 'toggers who actually spent their lives learning how to make what others then resell?

Okay one thing that helps in this biz is a thick skin. No matter how 'perfect' a job you do - at anything online - some people will knock it.

I was merely suggesting you become an affiliate and understand how the affiliate/paysite relationship works. I think many of the people that open a site before understanding how to get traffic are gone within a year or two. This is generic advice for anyone, not just you. It's rather sad many affiliate managers don't know how affiliates promote their sites via blogs, tgps, and freesites. Affiliates don't want to tell you what they want because you should know already.

You mention you're competent enough to run a website. That's great. Now the real key is making good money with it. Anyone can 'make a wage'.

I also suggested you could sell your photography to content brokers to make extra money as well for the same work. Why are you flipping out?

I like your analogy about eating in a flashy restaurant that serves dismal food. Who HASN'T done that? That's because we didn't know the food was bad before we ate it. Usually we were sold by the flash (paysite tour) before we learned about the food (members area). If the food is bad, we won't be back (rebills).

[NY Jester]

Originally Posted by UglyDaz

Any help beyond telling me to give it up as a bad job and resign myself to just reselling other people's crap will be welcomed thanks.
Help and advice generally means "assistance in moving forward" not showing someone the exit sign.

I dont believe anyone was really offering you an exit sign. What was said to you is, in order to best sell your own sites is to have sold someone else's first. Most of us are affiliates to many programs and many of us are paysite owners but thats only after understanding how traffic, and being an affiliate actually worked. You talk about not knowing what an affiliate wants..its because you yourself have never been one. You dont know what it takes to attract affiliates, what tools are best at making tools...but yet you seem to downplay that aspect of it. You seem to not want to open your sites up for affiliates, all the best with that. Because in today's market there are 1000 sites JUST like yours that have 1500 affiliates selling for them. No one is shunning you. It was an offered piece of advice. I'd say another piece of advice would be to not take any enlightenment to heart personally.

I might add, that many of us, who have "resigned" ourselves to selling other peoples crap...do pretty well. So I ask that you not come here and insult what we have chose to do either.

[UglyDaz]

Originally Posted by NY Jester

I might add, that many of us, who have "resigned" ourselves to selling other peoples crap...do pretty well. So I ask that you not come here and insult what we have chose to do either.

When I said the word crap I never mentioned any names did I?
There are many superb sites with great content that I admire and was never suggesting that anyone here was selling anything other than the best stuff. I just meant that there is some rubbish material out there and badly shot models.

Please don't take my comments personally either.

[UglyDaz]

Originally Posted by Useless Warrior

That means your content isn't as good as you think it is. Trust those of us with experience - that re-billing concept DOES work in practice.

What I'm seeing is someone who is absolutely clueless about what he/she is doing, but has too big of an ego to properly absorb the advice and constructive criticism being given. The posters in this thread are trying to help you, though I don't know why. Try shutting your mouth, re-reading what they've posted, and attempt to understand that it is genuine, friendly advice from people who have been working this industry, from multiple angles, for years.

Thanks for your patience.

[UglyDaz]

Originally Posted by hashbury

1. In all honesty why should an affiliate care about you being a photographer? They are here to make money just like you.

So I take it that you think that everything is down to the affiliate? and that the producer has nothing of value to input other than dropping everything in order to learn all there is to know about being an affiliate?

I'm sorry but there does seem to be a distinct group of affiliates on every board that appear to act like the most important link in the chain.
I do have affiliates - on another site (a number that grows every day), I ask each one what they want from me and I produce bespoke material for them. The ones I have say that they are very happy with what I do.
The affiliates I have ask for intro clips, galleries etc and I do spend a lot of time doing them and if they asked for something else then they'd get it. What my affiliates don't do is just complain that I'm inexpert.
I'm not an expert on taxation either, but I don't have to be... that's what I pay an accountant for - to do the job he's qualified to do. Not to moan about the dismal state of my receipts.
Affiliates take a decent cut of profits so why not at least treat people with some patience and common decency?

Don't bother replying either - I was misinformed about this place and I won't be back.

[hashbury]

Originally Posted by UglyDaz

Don't bother replying either - I was misinformed about this place and I won't be back.

Thank Fuckin God
You come in here with a big ego, asking for help when its obvious you don't give a flying fuck about listening to anybody. Everyone one of the posters in here had the right to be a total dick to you (even though they were as nice as possible) because of your attitude. I was quite nice to you(a lot more than i should have). You shouldn't take any of our advice, I mean really just because some of us own programs, work for them, or have just been in this bis sense the 90's, what the fuck do we know. If you go around with this attitude you will crumble your program. Ive seen it done by many jackasses just like you, and will probably get the pleasure of watching yours crumble. So, have fun going from board to board alienating affiliates that might have promoted your program if you could have proved yourself not to be an egotistical fucktard.

[NY Jester]

No I wasn't so much focusing on the word crap, but rather the "resigned" statement.


Here is my reply just in case you come back, but if you don't you probably wont be missed. You come asking for advice, help, from those that may have a bit more knowledge than yourself and then get pissy when its offered. Way to be.

[SheepGuy]

Quit! Dammit! Quit!

[Mike-mijen]

Hi.
I'm UglyDaz.|shot