Do YOU OUTSOURCE YOUR DESIGN WORK?

Odie · 2005-12-14, 01:00 PM

so do you outsource or do you have in-house designers??

I've been asking around and most companies have in-house deisgners who are always there but some outsource. What are the pros and cons? and what qualities do you look for in a designer/company???

Your input would be greatly appreciated!

Fetishlady · 2005-12-14, 01:07 PM

we have our in-house designers and most of them have been in the industry for more than 3 years so they know what kind of designs really convert.
if you will outsource - the cons may be - designers aren't that experienced and that means you still have to train them and show them what to do and everything.

Surfn · 2005-12-14, 01:10 PM

I've always outsourced my critical design work.

Odie · 2005-12-14, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Surfn

I've always outsourced my critical design work.

so how do you decide which designers you're going to use and do you always go back to the same guys or do you move around?

Ramster · 2005-12-14, 01:38 PM

Picking a designer is usually by reference. Other than for maybe gallery templates (5 to start) I will only use someone I know does good work that I have seen.

Inhouse designers (I'd assume someone who is on fulltime payroll and does not get paid by the job) would be for bigger companies mostly who need galleries added continuously and tours done or redone.

Greenguy · 2005-12-14, 01:59 PM

Looking for ways to improve the business that you've already opened? Maybe trying to get your name out there a bit by asking who uses the services you offer?

Mattinblack · 2005-12-14, 03:13 PM

From a designers point of view (I am a freelance) I have been known to do work on spec. That is to say if you dont like it you dont pay....and you dont use it either! So far I have a 100% record of getting paid and 75% record of folk coming back for more. Adult and non adult.

Surfn · 2005-12-14, 03:49 PM

I only use people I know these days. There was a time I would use just anybody, that day has passed.

urb · 2005-12-14, 03:55 PM

The trouble with outsourcing is that a client never knows who will end up doing the job. You may like something you see in a portfolio of work, but there is no guarantee that you will get the same designer.

A program that has in-house design has fixed design costs and knows that the quality of work will be constant.

Hellpuppy · 2005-12-15, 02:46 AM

If you dont mind the payroll, in-house lets you control the quality, the schedule and can give your sites a consistent look that helps with branding.

If you dont want the payroll or need a specialist, you can get quality work by outsourcing to a well established design house. The negative there is the guys who have good skills are very expensive and often booked for months in advance. Unless you really challenge them with a good spec and some extra cash, you also run the risk of getting a site that is unique but has many of the same traits as every other tour they've produced in recent months. Designers get in ruts.

Now I suspect by "outsourcing" you're talking about the rent-a-fillipino plan. We've tried it, and always come back to inhouse. There are good ones out there, but the outsourcing companies will really test your patience.

"Dedicated employee" is bullshit in my opinion. I think you're unknowingly sharing your "dedicated" worker with multiple clients. I also dont think you get the same person every day. The work that is returned and the time that it takes is very inconsistent. The game they seem to play is give you someone good for the first month and have him turn and burn. Then the slacking starts. And dont even get me started on fillipinos and their sick days.

GonZo · 2005-12-15, 02:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hellpuppy

If you dont mind the payroll, in-house lets you control the quality, the schedule and can give your sites a consistent look that helps with branding.

If you dont want the payroll or need a specialist, you can get quality work by outsourcing to a well established design house. The negative there is the guys who have good skills are very expensive and often booked for months in advance. Unless you really challenge them with a good spec and some extra cash, you also run the risk of getting a site that is unique but has many of the same traits as every other tour they've produced in recent months. Designers get in ruts.

Now I suspect by "outsourcing" you're talking about the rent-a-fillipino plan. We've tried it, and always come back to inhouse. There are good ones out there, but the outsourcing companies will really test your patience.

"Dedicated employee" is bullshit in my opinion. I think you're unknowingly sharing your "dedicated" worker with multiple clients. I also dont think you get the same person every day. The work that is returned and the time that it takes is very inconsistent. The game they seem to play is give you someone good for the first month and have him turn and burn. Then the slacking starts. And dont even get me started on fillipinos and their sick days.

Dont forget the holidays... and the email doesnt work and the viruses...sick sisters and stolen computers.

Mattinblack · 2005-12-15, 07:48 AM

LMAO at gonzos post. From my own experience when I worked for Auto T here in the UK I can add:

Nervous Breakdowns (caused by you asking staff to do work)

Law Suites for Stress at work (see above)

Law Suites for unfair dismissal (he never did any work just chatted on MSN)

On Site stabbings (jealous girlfriend stabs artist with his own scalpel)

Employees you cant fire (employment laws)

Bodies suspected to be hidden under the newly poured
concrete floor of your server room causing two weeks of disruption (the
employee was dumb enough to be caught on security cam putting
his wifes body in the boot of his car but would not say what he
had done with it)

At least with us freelances you can terminate without notice!
Auto T got rid of all there inhouse except for one lone manager/CGI programmer/page designer (me) then I left and they are 100% outsource now and remain my biggest customer.

GonZo · 2005-12-15, 09:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mattinblack

LMAO at gonzos post. From my own experience when I worked for Auto T here in the UK I can add:

Nervous Breakdowns (caused by you asking staff to do work)

Law Suites for Stress at work (see above)

Law Suites for unfair dismissal (he never did any work just chatted on MSN)

On Site stabbings (jealous girlfriend stabs artist with his own scalpel)

Employees you cant fire (employment laws)

Bodies suspected to be hidden under the newly poured
concrete floor of your server room causing two weeks of disruption (the
employee was dumb enough to be caught on security cam putting
his wifes body in the boot of his car but would not say what he
had done with it)

At least with us freelances you can terminate without notice!
Auto T got rid of all there inhouse except for one lone manager/CGI programmer/page designer (me) then I left and they are 100% outsource now and remain my biggest customer.

I can tell from your post that you know I was giving actual facts from our dealing with the philipinos in the past.

They dont lie very well...my favorite was the company wanting to charge us extra for storage on a server of the work they were doing.

Odie · 2005-12-15, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hellpuppy

If you dont mind the payroll, in-house lets you control the quality, the schedule and can give your sites a consistent look that helps with branding.

If you dont want the payroll or need a specialist, you can get quality work by outsourcing to a well established design house. The negative there is the guys who have good skills are very expensive and often booked for months in advance. Unless you really challenge them with a good spec and some extra cash, you also run the risk of getting a site that is unique but has many of the same traits as every other tour they've produced in recent months. Designers get in ruts.

Now I suspect by "outsourcing" you're talking about the rent-a-fillipino plan. We've tried it, and always come back to inhouse. There are good ones out there, but the outsourcing companies will really test your patience.

"Dedicated employee" is bullshit in my opinion. I think you're unknowingly sharing your "dedicated" worker with multiple clients. I also dont think you get the same person every day. The work that is returned and the time that it takes is very inconsistent. The game they seem to play is give you someone good for the first month and have him turn and burn. Then the slacking starts. And dont even get me started on fillipinos and their sick days.

I always wondered about that. Designers can only come up with so much which would make sense to NOT use the same person everytime, for variety of course.

Our designers are dedicated. Changing up the worker would not make any sense. It would get confusing and the lack of productivity would be a complete waste of time.

I am laughing at the sick days comment... lmao

guestcam · 2005-12-15, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GonZo

...my favorite was the company wanting to charge us extra for storage on a server of the work they were doing.

now THATS funny! sometimes I think the real reason I aint making as much money as everyone else is I have a sense of shame.

That storage charge is right up there with invites to "parties" where YOU pay for the drinks and 4 star hotels serving hot dogs at the conference lunch...............

GonZo · 2005-12-15, 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by guestcam

now THATS funny! sometimes I think the real reason I aint making as much money as everyone else is I have a sense of shame.

That storage charge is right up there with invites to "parties" where YOU pay for the drinks and 4 star hotels serving hot dogs at the conference lunch...............

Yeah but in America.... they call that Internext!

guestcam · 2005-12-15, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GonZo

Yeah but in America.... they call that Internext!

OH YEAH, so it is, so it is!

Xeno · 2005-12-15, 07:55 PM

My mainstream business (aside from the link directory) is web design...so to help answer...

It really depends on what you are wanting done and most importantly, is this a long-term project for you? In other words, is this going to be your main bread and butter...It also comes down to the abilities on two fronts: Technical and then obviously, the Visual. Good design for both is very important to consider because websites can be costly, but if it's done right from the start, then its cost effective. Many try to go the cheap low cost route only to end up paying more for fixes, upgrades, among other things...so in the end, choosing to go that way can actually cost you more in the long run.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying its good to pay high cost to ensure good design, far from it. In fact I've seen a lot of expensive sites that were designed poorly.

The other "important" factor to consider is if you outsource your design needs, make sure the person you are about to work with has good business sense and good people (customer service) skills. You need to feel good inside about the one you are considering. This person should also offer you more than one solution and not just one and thats it.

On the part of attempting to do things inhouse, such as on your own, make sure you understand the workings of code and have some sense of good design. Sometimes though, there are site owners who just don't have the ability to seek out a professional solution. There are ways of putting together a decent site from what you can find on the net, but you should plan to spend extra time and effort away from the actual business of your site for sake of the design needs.

If you hire inhouse designer or webmaster, make sure they can give you what you want and able to give you support in keeping you online and provide you with seo solutions as well.

Hope this helps in some way or form

Elias · 2005-12-15, 10:28 PM

Outsource. You have a choice of styles and prices, though good designers might cost much and be fully loaded just when you need the work done asap. So I gues it's sbout the monthly volumes you will need: low - outsource, high - hire.

Sergio_TeenBoys · 2005-12-16, 06:12 AM

I always outsource my design, it saves my time for more important things.

Useless · 2005-12-16, 09:01 AM

It's only outsourcing if you have a designer on your payroll. Otherwise, it's just hiring someone to do the job. Do I outsource my trash removal? No. I pay some grubby schmuck with an old pick-up truck to come once a week to empty my garbage cans into the Hudson river. When my car breaks down, do I oursource the repairs? No, I hire some greasy prick to overcharge me and fix the wrong fucking thing. But that's not outsourcing the work. Outsourcing, in the traditional sense, implies cutting costs by having some other firm do work that your own firm COULD do, but at a greater cost.

So the question is, do you hire a full time talented dedicated designer of your choosing to do all of your design work or do you contract one of those grahpic design sweat shops in Eastern Mongolia and hope to hell that some motherfucker amongst them can fit your project into their busy schedule of $5 blowjobs and $10 sucky-fuckies?

Mattinblack · 2005-12-17, 05:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Useless Warrior

contract one of those grahpic design sweat shops in Eastern Mongolia and hope to hell that some motherfucker amongst them can fit your project into their busy schedule of $5 blowjobs and $10 sucky-fuckies?

I would like to take exception to that remark... first of all I am located in London and second I charge considerably more than $5 for a blowjob and my rates for Sucky-Fuckies would drain more than ya Dick. Seriously not everybody overcharges. I charge $20 an hour for 'grunt work' ie HTML and graphics but $40 an hour for software (CGI Javascript etc) which is not overcharging compared to a garage or your accountant...LMAO

webgurl · 2005-12-19, 11:09 PM

I paid for some really damn ugly amateur designs oh brother waste of
money becareful who u choose even if they show you sample
design work or if they post them on boards sometimes
they don't appear to look like them at all .

This was not from outsource company

SexycityBrian · 2005-12-20, 01:41 PM

We used to use outsourcing companies and get filipinos now we actually have some that work for us directly. The biggest problem we have is text they can come up with some ungodly phrases for tours and such. One example was a gang bang site with text that implied that the surfer would get their head blown off by gangbangers if they joined. One problem with filipinos is their example work you never know if it was theirs or not. We had someone contact us about some work a filipino did that was for us but the guy didnt work for us he was just using sample work from one of our designers for a reference. I dont deal with the designers much SexycityJim usually deals with them out of fear that I might actually get on a plane one day to the philippines and strangle one of them.

Brian

GonZo · 2005-12-20, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SexycityBrian

We used to use outsourcing companies and get filipinos now we actually have some that work for us directly. The biggest problem we have is text they can come up with some ungodly phrases for tours and such. One example was a gang bang site with text that implied that the surfer would get their head blown off by gangbangers if they joined. One problem with filipinos is their example work you never know if it was theirs or not. We had someone contact us about some work a filipino did that was for us but the guy didnt work for us he was just using sample work from one of our designers for a reference. I dont deal with the designers much SexycityJim usually deals with them out of fear that I might actually get on a plane one day to the philippines and strangle one of them.

Brian

Damn... who let Brian post?

2005-12-14, 01:00 PM	#1
Odie A woman is like beer. They look good, they smell good, and you'd step over your own mother just to get one! Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Toronto Posts: 58	Do YOU OUTSOURCE YOUR DESIGN WORK? so do you outsource or do you have in-house designers?? I've been asking around and most companies have in-house deisgners who are always there but some outsource. What are the pros and cons? and what qualities do you look for in a designer/company??? Your input would be greatly appreciated! __________________ Odie ICQ: 166208354 odie.lu@avn.com

2005-12-14, 01:07 PM	#2
Fetishlady Well you know boys, a nuclear reactor is a lot like women. You just have to read the manual and press the right button Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 154	we have our in-house designers and most of them have been in the industry for more than 3 years so they know what kind of designs really convert. if you will outsource - the cons may be - designers aren't that experienced and that means you still have to train them and show them what to do and everything. __________________ ADD HUGE CASH TO YOUR WALLET NOW! ICQ: 223034292

2005-12-14, 01:10 PM	#3
Surfn If you don’t take a chance the Angels won’t dance Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Earth on occasion Posts: 8,812	I've always outsourced my critical design work. __________________ Surfn's Links Are you a partner?

2005-12-14, 01:38 PM	#5
Ramster Life is good Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Ottawa, Canada Posts: 11,705	Picking a designer is usually by reference. Other than for maybe gallery templates (5 to start) I will only use someone I know does good work that I have seen. Inhouse designers (I'd assume someone who is on fulltime payroll and does not get paid by the job) would be for bigger companies mostly who need galleries added continuously and tours done or redone. __________________ Pornstar Legends \| Live Cam Model Shows \| Hungarian Girls Skype: robmurray999

2005-12-14, 01:59 PM	#6
Greenguy The Original Greenguy (Est'd 1996) & AVN HOF Member - I Crop Pics For Thumbs In My Sleep Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Blasdell, NY (shithole suburb south of Buffalo) Posts: 41,809	Looking for ways to improve the business that you've already opened? Maybe trying to get your name out there a bit by asking who uses the services you offer? __________________ Promote POV Porn Cash By Building & Submitting Galleries to the Porn Luv Network

2005-12-14, 03:13 PM	#7
Mattinblack Asleep at the switch? I wasn't asleep, I was drunk Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: London UK in a house share with three 28 yr old girls...perv perv Posts: 215	From a designers point of view (I am a freelance) I have been known to do work on spec. That is to say if you dont like it you dont pay....and you dont use it either! So far I have a 100% record of getting paid and 75% record of folk coming back for more. Adult and non adult. __________________ Mattinblack - <a href="http://pornlinks.kwikfire.com">PornLinks</a> - <a href="http://strange-attractor.kwikfire.com">Strange Attractor</a> - <a href="pnav.kwikfire.com">PORNavigator</a> - <a href="http://ukescort.kwikfire.com/">Fem Escorts</a> - <a href="http://kwikfire.com/">Hosting</a>

2005-12-14, 03:49 PM	#8
Surfn If you don’t take a chance the Angels won’t dance Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Earth on occasion Posts: 8,812	I only use people I know these days. There was a time I would use just anybody, that day has passed. __________________ Surfn's Links Are you a partner?

2005-12-14, 03:55 PM	#9
urb All the way from Room 101 Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 3,557	The trouble with outsourcing is that a client never knows who will end up doing the job. You may like something you see in a portfolio of work, but there is no guarantee that you will get the same designer. A program that has in-house design has fixed design costs and knows that the quality of work will be constant. __________________

2005-12-15, 02:46 AM	#10
Hellpuppy Rock stars ... is there anything they don't know? Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 16	If you dont mind the payroll, in-house lets you control the quality, the schedule and can give your sites a consistent look that helps with branding. If you dont want the payroll or need a specialist, you can get quality work by outsourcing to a well established design house. The negative there is the guys who have good skills are very expensive and often booked for months in advance. Unless you really challenge them with a good spec and some extra cash, you also run the risk of getting a site that is unique but has many of the same traits as every other tour they've produced in recent months. Designers get in ruts. Now I suspect by "outsourcing" you're talking about the rent-a-fillipino plan. We've tried it, and always come back to inhouse. There are good ones out there, but the outsourcing companies will really test your patience. "Dedicated employee" is bullshit in my opinion. I think you're unknowingly sharing your "dedicated" worker with multiple clients. I also dont think you get the same person every day. The work that is returned and the time that it takes is very inconsistent. The game they seem to play is give you someone good for the first month and have him turn and burn. Then the slacking starts. And dont even get me started on fillipinos and their sick days. __________________ Dollars for Doughnuts:Fat Fucking Cash!

2005-12-15, 07:48 AM	#12
Mattinblack Asleep at the switch? I wasn't asleep, I was drunk Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: London UK in a house share with three 28 yr old girls...perv perv Posts: 215	LMAO at gonzos post. From my own experience when I worked for Auto T here in the UK I can add: Nervous Breakdowns (caused by you asking staff to do work) Law Suites for Stress at work (see above) Law Suites for unfair dismissal (he never did any work just chatted on MSN) On Site stabbings (jealous girlfriend stabs artist with his own scalpel) Employees you cant fire (employment laws) Bodies suspected to be hidden under the newly poured concrete floor of your server room causing two weeks of disruption (the employee was dumb enough to be caught on security cam putting his wifes body in the boot of his car but would not say what he had done with it) At least with us freelances you can terminate without notice! Auto T got rid of all there inhouse except for one lone manager/CGI programmer/page designer (me) then I left and they are 100% outsource now and remain my biggest customer. __________________ Mattinblack - <a href="http://pornlinks.kwikfire.com">PornLinks</a> - <a href="http://strange-attractor.kwikfire.com">Strange Attractor</a> - <a href="pnav.kwikfire.com">PORNavigator</a> - <a href="http://ukescort.kwikfire.com/">Fem Escorts</a> - <a href="http://kwikfire.com/">Hosting</a>

2005-12-15, 07:55 PM	#18
Xeno Do you want the job done right, or do you want it done fast? Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Canada Posts: 494	My mainstream business (aside from the link directory) is web design...so to help answer... It really depends on what you are wanting done and most importantly, is this a long-term project for you? In other words, is this going to be your main bread and butter...It also comes down to the abilities on two fronts: Technical and then obviously, the Visual. Good design for both is very important to consider because websites can be costly, but if it's done right from the start, then its cost effective. Many try to go the cheap low cost route only to end up paying more for fixes, upgrades, among other things...so in the end, choosing to go that way can actually cost you more in the long run. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying its good to pay high cost to ensure good design, far from it. In fact I've seen a lot of expensive sites that were designed poorly. The other "important" factor to consider is if you outsource your design needs, make sure the person you are about to work with has good business sense and good people (customer service) skills. You need to feel good inside about the one you are considering. This person should also offer you more than one solution and not just one and thats it. On the part of attempting to do things inhouse, such as on your own, make sure you understand the workings of code and have some sense of good design. Sometimes though, there are site owners who just don't have the ability to seek out a professional solution. There are ways of putting together a decent site from what you can find on the net, but you should plan to spend extra time and effort away from the actual business of your site for sake of the design needs. If you hire inhouse designer or webmaster, make sure they can give you what you want and able to give you support in keeping you online and provide you with seo solutions as well. Hope this helps in some way or form __________________ Why I never sleep anymore... Web Designing

2005-12-15, 10:28 PM	#19
Elias Heh Heh Heh! Lisa! Vampires are make believe, just like elves and gremlins and eskimos! Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 76	Outsource. You have a choice of styles and prices, though good designers might cost much and be fully loaded just when you need the work done asap. So I gues it's sbout the monthly volumes you will need: low - outsource, high - hire. __________________ Adult Games Partners - Best-selling Adult Flash Games, up to $35 sign-up bonus!

2005-12-16, 06:12 AM	#20
Sergio_TeenBoys I'm going to the backseat of my car with the woman I love, and I won't be back for TEN MINUTES Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 84	I always outsource my design, it saves my time for more important things. __________________ ICQ: 150746307

2005-12-16, 09:01 AM	#21
Useless Certified Nice Person Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Dirty Undies, NY Posts: 11,268	It's only outsourcing if you have a designer on your payroll. Otherwise, it's just hiring someone to do the job. Do I outsource my trash removal? No. I pay some grubby schmuck with an old pick-up truck to come once a week to empty my garbage cans into the Hudson river. When my car breaks down, do I oursource the repairs? No, I hire some greasy prick to overcharge me and fix the wrong fucking thing. But that's not outsourcing the work. Outsourcing, in the traditional sense, implies cutting costs by having some other firm do work that your own firm COULD do, but at a greater cost. So the question is, do you hire a full time talented dedicated designer of your choosing to do all of your design work or do you contract one of those grahpic design sweat shops in Eastern Mongolia and hope to hell that some motherfucker amongst them can fit your project into their busy schedule of $5 blowjobs and $10 sucky-fuckies? __________________ Click here to purchase a bridge I'm selling.

2005-12-19, 11:09 PM	#23
webgurl Just because I don't care doesn't mean I don't understand! Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 92	I paid for some really damn ugly amateur designs oh brother waste of money becareful who u choose even if they show you sample design work or if they post them on boards sometimes they don't appear to look like them at all . This was not from outsource company __________________ Money Monkey

2005-12-20, 01:41 PM	#24
SexycityBrian If something goes wrong at the plant, blame the guy who can't speak English Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 38	We used to use outsourcing companies and get filipinos now we actually have some that work for us directly. The biggest problem we have is text they can come up with some ungodly phrases for tours and such. One example was a gang bang site with text that implied that the surfer would get their head blown off by gangbangers if they joined. One problem with filipinos is their example work you never know if it was theirs or not. We had someone contact us about some work a filipino did that was for us but the guy didnt work for us he was just using sample work from one of our designers for a reference. I dont deal with the designers much SexycityJim usually deals with them out of fear that I might actually get on a plane one day to the philippines and strangle one of them. Brian