Oldschool reinvented noob got a few questions!

[SheepGuy]

I do remember that guy that stole your sites, if I'm not mistaken he was from Switzerland and claimed he bough the sites from some guy in Latvia.
If so, the same dude stole a bunch of NV Elites from me and put them up as Quantum. PA just handed them over to me and gave me his rebills as well. Hope the dude's flipping Swiss cheeseburgers now |badidea|

[JD]

Hmmm, Eric was his name, he told everyone on all the boards he was a big big player etc. He came down with a large crunch after I exposed the bastard, he copied the sites exactly! In the end he was some friggin kid with a cell fone living with him mum, LMAO. The way he spoke such great crap though, he should get a job in sales or something easy!
I hope people dont still do that these days. I am morally high with copying, I wont copy, or if I copy a little bit I will change it all completely. So I guess it brought home some stuff to me because I didnt like it done to me (not that I copied stuff, but I would copy the odd add layout etc. ) ANd I cringe when I post a url, like if its not listed or something, just in case people copy, but I know theres lots of nice people around so maybe it doesnt happen much these days (copying peoples stuff)
I'm not sure where he was from, he was fluent english on the icq though. It was very nice of Netverifier to do what they did, those were the days, just an extra few grand a month, didnt even notice it, not like these days LOL. Gonna have to chase up your email SG, do u have icq?
regards
JD

Originally Posted by SheepGuy

I do remember that guy that stole your sites, if I'm not mistaken he was from Switzerland and claimed he bough the sites from some guy in Latvia.
If so, the same dude stole a bunch of NV Elites from me and put them up as Quantum. PA just handed them over to me and gave me his rebills as well. Hope the dude's flipping Swiss cheeseburgers now |badidea|

[Mr Exotic]

JD sounds like you have had your share of hard times man. I feel for ya as I have been there myself. I didnt get fucked on AVS sites since I never did them, but I started off making big money pretty much right off the get go back in very late 99/very early 2000. I was making all my money off CJ (circle jerk) sites, which pretty much ceased to exist around the end of 2001. Man I was right out of high school making money hand over fist not really even having a clue as to how to actually make a sale. Just throw up a java alert, an exit console, and throw up a few little things on the page that made 3-4k/month for pocket change, haha, pocket change back then. My dad has a very good job building transmissions at Chrysler and I remember thinking I was big shit because I made more than him just off my exit console sponsor, and I made 3-4 times more than that on my java alert thingie, I had more money than I knew what to do with. I was young and dumb (right out of high school) and thought hell I am gonna be doing this exact same thing the rest of my life. Then it just so happened that as the bottom fell out of the CJ site scene I ended up with some pretty serious health problems and I didnt have insurance. So by the time I was better I had spent all my money on doctors, hospitals, and meds. And didnt have any money to get anything new started. It took me quite a while, but with alot of help from family, and some help from some online friends to point me in the right direction I was able to get back on my feet and at least make a living again online. I had some bad times in between though, I worked for a few people online, had a couple of shit jobs which included a paper route, and GASP working at Walmart, hahaha. I aint even came close to making what I used to make, hell I would give my left nut to make a month now what I used to make in a week back then. But I keep on keeping on, made some ok money off galleries for a few years, and that started drying up, so I started the free site stuff about 10 months ago and like what I am seeing so far, and from what I have been able to gather from researching and talking with other people another 2 years of this and I oughta be going somewhere, haha.
Hang in there man and keep on keeping on until you find something that works.

[JD]

Me Exotic

Hey man, yeh, I heard about those damn CJ sites too, looked into them for a week or so and heard from people what they were making on them, didnt go through fully though, so lost out there!!

Know what you mean with the money and the "olds", used to love making more than my father in law, he works at a factory and pulls a grand a week (aust money) and I used to just kill him with what I used to make. NOW I would be content with making what he does. Fuck its hard getting your feet again, I dont care what anyone says, its still really hard to get yourself doing something that makes money, so many more sponsors these days probably makes it harder in a way as its too confusing, which one to pick, as basically they all kick ass nearly, wilth the latest sites, best promos and shit.

Sorry to hear about your health problems, we have great free health services here in Australia and you dont need private health cover here, so lucky in that respect.

So 10 months ago yeh? Do you do lots of different sponsors? Lots of mirror sites with different link lists? doing 5 or more sales a day now I guess you would be after 10 months?

Know what you mean with the galleries, still a lot saying they make good income with them, its a lot harder imo to make money with gals as theres so much stuff out there. I guess what I have learnt now is consistency is key, gotta keep on going. Still, I'm the type of person that gets sick of doing the same stuff over and over, so I'm just having a hard time getting up and doing the same stuff, but at the same time, I'm always thinking, should I switch sponsors, change niches, and what about all these damn LL that I arent even submitting to, you cant do everything!!! Aghhhhhh, its painful but I have to try to move through the pain barrier, I just want 10 sales a day, thats my ambition for after a year of doing free sites, if I could get it to say 5 sales a day by 6 month mark it will give me the motivation I need to keep at it.

I get tired thinking about it, lol, Im a lazy bastard at the best of times too, so it will be a challenge...................

back to it!

[Mr Exotic]

As far as submitting, mirrors, and linklists go is probably where I have made a big mistake. Funny that you ask that question because today I just compiled a new submit list that is 54 link lists long, up until now I have only been submitting to 12-15 of the biggest link lists, I do get basically every site listed everywhere I submit, but I know I have left a ton of traffic and sales out by going that route. Another thing that I have discovered and have been advised on by a good friend who really knows his SE stuff is that SE traffic for a new domain can take a very very long time to get, as I am now finding out. And that SE traffic is a obviously a pretty big thing, thats why this is something that you have to really keep after for the long haul, not only do you get more SE traffic as you keep building and building but the linklist traffic builds up obviously as well especially at link lists like Green Guy's where the sites get rotated and not listed in order that they were submitted.

As far as the money and sales go, haha, thats definitely a tricky question. That is another place I know I have made a mistake, a mistake that I think I have just very recently fixed, at least for the future when I pick new sites to promote. I have built and submitted tons of free sites for paysites that just flat out laid a huge pile of shit conversion wise and retention wise on revshare. There are days that I made 5 sales off my free sites, but not as many as I would like quite honestly, had I not picked so many paysites that did so shitty I do think there is a very good chance that I would be at 5 sales a day for an average, but there is no way to really tell, other than to keep building and going on from what I have learned. I really think now that if I had been submitting to more link lists and picked better sites I could be making more than double what I am making now, if not more than that. Now that its getting to be close to a year that I have been doing this I definitely have learned a ton and see that I have made a lot of mistakes along the way, only thing I can do is continue and not make the same mistakes again.

One bad thing that goes along with free sites is that it is such a long term thing (but this ultimately is the best thing about it, haha go figure) and it really takes a long time to see how something is gonna do for you since it takes so long to build up enough traffic to really gauge something on. But really I think my learning curve goes along with what many webmasters have told me or me reading what they have said. The first year is the learning year, the second year is the year where you have corrected your mistakes and you oughta really be getting somewhere by the end of your second year, and in the 3rd year you oughta be rolling in the dough, hahaha (at least that is my goal). Of course rolling in the dough for me may not even pay another person's living expenses. But what you said about 10 sales a day, that is pretty much the area I would like to be in as well as thats gonna end up being over 100 grand a year. Another thing to keep in mind is that its just not about just the actual free sites, but its making those free sites all work together as one and to form one big empire for yourself (someone could probably write a book on that, haha).

When I first started doing free sites I had made a promise to myself to stick with a three year plan and no matter what not to give up on it because I have heard so many times that it is such a long term thing and the biggest mistake people make to to give up on them before they even give them a chance. So no matter what I am gonna be here doing free sites until Jan 20th of 2008 and hopefully by then it will have all been worth it and I will have one hell of an adult empire built up for myself and have an excellent long term and steady income for me and my family.

Geez, haha just realized this is turning into a long as hell post, I'll shut up now.

[JD]

Hey no need to shut up, you make great sense and write well!!

You know I was making free sites in 98-99? What a dumbass for not continuing on, at least 1 site a day, or hell, 1 a week, would have had me around 2,500 or free sites all with long going SE traffic, LOL. Oh well, I thought I was onto a good thing and kept doing that, thats what we do I spose, keep onto a good thing. I should have learnt something after all this time, well I spose I learn a few things, but I think to myself I havent really learned anything. ALthough I know how to make clean ok sites, I find it hard to write all the damn selling text for todays sites, what are we sposed to tell the surfer, I let the banners speak, and just put a few lines in for the SE's and so the surfers can see the text link in case the banners dont load.

I changed my recips today to 3 x 16 LL tables, so 48 sites at the moment. But I really need 100 or so. I find it so much work just to do those ones. I use form filling sw of course, but doing the mirrors and stuff, its pretty mind numbing, I applaud the free site webmasters, its not easy work I dont think anyway. But its better than working for some other bloke ) so I have to stamp that on my forehead more.

Sponsors, UGHHH, your reality is my nightmare then! I dont want that to happen, so this much I have learned, I check out the sites members area by hand and see whats there to keep the surfer, and I check out stats like gg AND hoes etc and see what sponsors do best, and its pretty sad news there these days, lol, lots of 1:1500 conversions, that sucks, but sign of the times maybe, todays LL conversions are yesterdays gallery conversions! Thans for the heads up, I am gonna have to split these sites up with more sponsors, maybe 10 and alternate submissions, it till take longer to get signups to them but at least it will be more diverse.

I dont like the 3 year thing man, I want to get there in 1 year!!! Someone was saying on here they were getting a sale per day after a month subbing! That would be nice. Everything varies I spose. Oh well, another day another site tomorrow. ANd what about multiple submissions, I notice theres only a handful of LL that state just 1 site per day, so there is room to submit 3 or so sites a day to 100 link lists maybe, that would be large workload but faster results. ANyway, making me tired thinking about it!!

JD

[Mr Exotic]

Man I think we can relate on alot of things. Funny thing is how I got my very first start was with a babe/bikini site that was somewhat of a linklist, I didnt start my first site off thinking oh boy I am gonna put up a shitload of blind links and jerk traffic around to make some money, haha. I really had a good build up of bookmarkers and had a pretty big group of sites that was trading links with me, it really was kind of a link list pretty much. I had a top refferer table that I updated once a week, had a list of new sites on the main page that had been submitted to me thru out the week, and had a links page for all the other sites that didnt make the top refferer list. It wasnt of sites that were free sites as we know them now, but still pretty much the same thing. I often wonder how things would have gone if I had got turned onto the real link lists and free sites instead of the evil CJ sites. I was young and dumb and took my 10-12k/day of bookmarker/quality link trade traffic and turned that into over 100k/day of CJ traffic to make some quick money. Hell if I had a clue as to how to sale a site back then instead of just plastering up a couple banners I would have been making decent money off my little quality site, and who knows where that could have lead to.

My free sites probably have more text on them than just about anyone, hoping that down the road that will help me out alot with SE traffic, along with trying to sale the site. I kind of look at my free sites as blog posts in some kind of way, haha. I try to write a good size paragraph on each page of the site, sometimes I about go crazy trying to think of new things to say, and often I am saying pretty much the same thing but worded in a different way trying to work the different keywords in for that particular site.

You are definitely on to something by going by sites that post their sponsor stats. That is one of the first things I use when checking out new paysites to promote now and so far so good. When I first started I just went by what looked good and if I thought that program was good either by word of mouth or by my past experiences with them, but as I soon found out even some of the best programs out there have sites that will convert worse than 1:3000. Then I took a good look at Greenies latest stats update and sure enough the sites that sucked donkey dick for me, sucked ass as well for him. And the sites that I was happy with were doing good for him too.

As far as getting 1 sale a day just after submitting for 3 weeks, I suppose its possible if everything went perfect, but not likely. I am not sure if it was this thread or another but I think you said something about getting a sale every 3 days after a month and that is pretty much where I was my first month. The second month was about twice as good, and the third month I was pretty close to a sale a day maybe a bit better. I was somewhat lucky because 3 of 4 sites I first started off with ended up doing pretty good, and even the 4th wasnt too awfully bad. But then is where I made my mistakes, the next string of sites I started promoting sucked and things really leveled off for a while, and the growth slowed down quite a bit. But now that I am picking better sites to promote I am seeing pretty good conversions so hopefully I can get back to growing quickly again.

Today was the first day I submitted to 54 (18x3) link lists after only doing around 12-15 since I started, my first experience making mirrors, talk about a pain in the ass, haha. Not to mention all these crazy little link lists and figuring out all their different forms for the first time. What pissed me off the most was these god damn word of the day things. One site I know I typed it right and time after time it said I was wrong, so fuck it that site is losing my submits, haha. My mind is pretty numb after the whole ordeal.

About submitting more than 1 site a day to the lists that allow it, ya I suppose you could, but from what I usually notice is that 9 times out of 10 the sites that allow multiple submissions are new ones that are just trying to fill out their categories and alot of times they end up going to only 1 submit a day. I know for me there just is not enough time to try and do that and I honestly dont think my mind could take it, haha. My guess is that in the end it probably wouldnt be worth the extra effort since to do it right you would need to put just as much effort into each of those extra sites as you do for the sites that get submitted to the big boys only to be lucky to have each site get 1/20th of the traffic (thats just guess on the traffic) per site.