Are These New Piece Of Shit Options Now Standard In NATS?

[Useless]

Originally Posted by DamnQ

hmmmmm.... seems like a lot of you feel the best way to go about finding a resolution to whatever caused your ratios to go bad is to attack the developers of affiliate software rather than to simply do a bit of additional research to discover where the actual problem lies.

Well, being that I'm the laziest bastard in the business - and a lot people here can back me up on that - I haven't built a damn thing to promote anyone in a loooong time. So, I can see pretty clearly that a couple programs' ratios dived down to nothing after they switched to NATS. But being the silly little fucker I am, I don't contact the sponsor, I don't sit around pondering anything - I do what you suggested. I pull links. Of course, that's not possible on all pages. If you are gallery or free site submitter and you're using sponsor content to promote those fuckers, you can't just pull links or pages. You're stuck hosting a bunch of shit that you know won't make you a cent, but the sponsor is probably continuing to pull the same ratios on their end.

[Qon]

Originally Posted by Useless Warrior

Well, being that I'm the laziest bastard in the business - ....but the sponsor is probably continuing to pull the same ratios on their end.

1) you're lazy
2) you argue with conjecture and assumptions

go back to my original reply to this thread... a lof of the issues you are complaining about seem to have a lot to do with what you are NOT doing. nats is just an easy scapegoat for you... if thats the way you like to live, hey.... do your thing. i certainly would hope my affiliates would notify me if i DID miss something but u obviously aren't where that notification will be coming from. btw, every GOOD affiliate software app is complex in 1 way or another.... people are going to be people, don't villainize them or the software if all you have is assumptions about what's going on rather than experience and technical know-how

[Useless]

Originally Posted by DamnQ

a lof of the issues you are complaining about seem to have a lot to do with what you are NOT doing.

Q - I've done nothing! Literally. I sit here and watch my traffic. That's it. You're arging for NATS because that's what YOUR PROGRAM uses. Big surprise. It's best for you and your friends at NATS for you to shift the blame upon the affiliates. That's fine. I'm sure it's a solid business decision for you.

I'm not looking for scapegoats. My ratios don't improve when I find something to blame. I just point out the obvious. Program A switches to NATS. My ratios drop. Program B switches to NATS. My ratios drop. Somethings up with the way they're running NATS. It's not fucking rocket science on my end.

[Qon]

Originally Posted by Useless Warrior

It's best for you and your friends at NATS for you to shift the blame upon the affiliates. That's fine. I'm sure it's a solid business decision for you.

what are you talking about dude? how am i shifting the blame on affiliates? whats the point of having a discussion with someone who doesn't actually read what you've said? its MISUSE of software, not the software and its the responsibility of both the program owner and the affiliate to insure that the agreement you have come to is backed up by a functional use of the software they have chosen to use. its very simple so i reeeeealy don't understand why you're having such a tough time getting it.... or maybe you just like to find things to bitch about?

i'll say it one more time: DO SOME INVESTIGATION & DISCOVER THE PROBLEM. if they are misusing the affiliate software and you continue to send them traffic while they do that, who is to blame? both sides are to blame and the responsibility lies in both hands to resolve the issue.

[Greenguy]

Originally Posted by DamnQ

...back to my previous point: make the effort as a partner to insure the place u send your traffic is working & setup properly. perhaps you could be saving the program and other affiliates with your efforts. its just as much your responsibility as it is the sponsors once you go into a partnership agreement of this nature.

Why is it my job to make sure the sponsors affiliate software is working?

Oddly enough, I do check most of the tours & hosted materials to make sure that the codes pass thru to the join page, but fuck me if you think that's my job!

9 times out of 10, I just delete the codes & move on - I do sometimes let the sponsor know about the problem, but I do not think that it's my responsibility to make sure the program owners have their affiliate software working properly - it's the program owners & the software developers responsibility.

Who has time to do this kind of stuff anyway when there 100's of programs out there that are set up properly?

And what does any of this have to do with our questions about the NATS software?

[Greenguy]

Originally Posted by DamnQ

....DO SOME INVESTIGATION & DISCOVER THE PROBLEM...

I think you're missing the point here as well - a lot of us have done our own investigating & most (if not all) of the time, the problem involves a program using NATS.

If most of us see that our ratios & income drop when a program moves to NATS......

[virgohippy]

Originally Posted by Greenie

I think you're missing the point here as well - a lot of us have done our own investigating & most (if not all) of the time, the problem involves a program using NATS.

If most of us see that our ratios & income drop when a program moves to NATS......

Whether it's the software itself, or the room for fucking up the software allows, the trend still forces a decision.

[shunga]

Originally Posted by Greenie

If most of us see that our ratios & income drop when a program moves to NATS......

GG, the point is, most affiliates using NATS *can't* see a real drop in ratios, otherwise NATS would be a dead duck, and it would have been a dead duck long ago.

[Greenguy]

Originally Posted by shunga

GG, the point is, most affiliates using NATS *can't* see a real drop in ratios, otherwise NATS would be a dead duck, and it would have been a dead duck long ago.

You wanna read thru this thread again, especially the posts by Danger Dave & Preacher.

I do have a stats run of 20 NATS programs with pre & post totals, but I'm waiting on one more person to get me their stats before I post it.

[Qon]

Originally Posted by Greenie

Why is it my job to make sure the sponsors affiliate software is working?

no one said its your job... if you hadn't noticed, in the TOS of most programs, you're agreeing to a partnership. basically, you're saying you just want the program owner to do all th work and you make all the money? lol... "give me hosted galleries.... give me linking code i can figure out.... give me... give me" IT'S A PARTNERSHIP. PARTicipate in helping to run it.

Originally Posted by Greenie

Who has time to do this kind of stuff anyway when there 100's of programs out there that are set up properly?

why would any program owner want to partner with people who don't take their partnership seriously? why should they be concerned about what someone like that thinks? if a program has a site that you KNOW is great... you have had good history with sales and retention, but then something happens and that changes. do you think it will be easy to find another site to replace the one you have PROVEN to make you a fat check? so doesn't it behoove you to make some effort to fix the problem... something as simple as going thru a signup with the site just to check functionality?

but thats a little too much for you.... u just want to put up links and get paid. fuck the program owner (your partner)... if that's the case, why should an affiliate program owner care about ONE or TWO affiliates when there are THOUSANDS out there that are looking to make money from this site that sells so well? you want to say FUCK them but you want them to care about each and every one of you

personally, i'm on both sides so i can see it. i've noticed changes when programs change from one software to another. i've noticed when they don't change at all. the biz isn't perfect traffic isn't perfect... the real question is do you trust your affiliate program owner? have you spoken personally with the guys that are sending you checks? met them in person? NATs is just software.... misuse of it and other factors can and DO affect your sales numbers. don't find scapegoats for anything... help find a resolution or you are just as much a part of the problem. i think CCBill is cool but of course i prefer a solution that will logically make me more $$$.... whether its nats, mpa3 or partnersoft... i'm going with cascading over any dependency on my money coming from a processor. that's just me.... that's all i'll say on this. feel free to continue nats bashing, or bashing whatever u choose.... you'll get tired and find something else to scapegoat eventually. have a good 1.

[virgohippy]

Originally Posted by DamnQ

but thats a little too much for you.... u just want to put up links and get paid.

Yes. And I imagine you want me to send you traffic so you can get paid.

Originally Posted by DamnQ

fuck the program owner (your partner)... if that's the case, why should an affiliate program owner care about ONE or TWO affiliates when there are THOUSANDS out there that are looking to make money from this site that sells so well? you want to say FUCK them but you want them to care about each and every one of you

Do you have a lot of affiliates who ask for more then you feel they deserve?

[Toby]

Originally Posted by DamnQ

...make the effort as a partner to insure the place u send your traffic is working & setup properly...

OK, but just exactly what are we supposed to be looking for beyond simply making sure that the links from the hosted galleries have our referral code?

BTW, nice to see you here.

[virgohippy]

DamnQ, you mentioned finding the "real" problem.

If programs can so easily turn sour as a result of a software change then how would it be in the best interest of an affiliate to NOT be skeptical of the software?

I don't care if the program owner is the one responsible for mucking up the works. As a business owner, I have to find trends in the market. And if using a particular software usually accompanies a drop in sales, I have little choice in the matter but to adapt. My survival as a business owner depends on it.

Furthermore, as UW pointed out, as an affiliate, I have absolutely no responsability in insuring the success of a program owner's business.

If something is consistently not right, I'm not going to waste my precious time doing research on a topic that's not going to help me run my business so I can fix someone else's problem. Not when I can easily work with people who can fix their own problems. That's just business.

The "real" problem is that I don't think your values are in line with the values of the affiliate marketers who disagree with you.

[Qon]

Originally Posted by Toby

OK, but just exactly what are we supposed to be looking for beyond simply making sure that the links from the hosted galleries have our referral code?

BTW, nice to see you here.

an error in a join form entry can cause the transaction to stop before it even successfully reaches the process. you'll see the traffic to the join but no signups.... this is not because the site doesn't sell or because nats is fucking your ratios... its a setup error by the program owner. test a full, completed transaction... this will let u know if all is good..... moving on 2 the next question

[Preacher]

Originally Posted by DamnQ

did u completely skip everything i posted thereafter? IF YOU DON'T MAKE SALES, YOU STOP SENDING TRAFFIC. YOU STOP SENDING TRAFFIC, I STOP MAKING SALES. seems like common sense to me.... if you're talking PPS, then its a different ballgame... but this is revshare and every sale counts so why would i WANT your sales to go missing or not get credited?

Originally Posted by Preacher

This reminds me of a time about a year ago where some well known webmaster on some forum listed a handful of sponsors that he swore was shaving based on traffic numbers and ratios.

Originally Posted by DamnQ

my deductions were not strictly based on traffic numbers and ratios and i believe i went thru all this.... don't u hate when people try to take your words and use them against you on a completely irrelevant subject?

I really didn't think I had to spell out the logical connection there, but apparently I do.

I guess the relevance was that you stated "why would i WANT your sales to go missing or not get credited". Why then would the sponsors that you outed as shaving "WANT your sales to go missing or not get credited"?

Originally Posted by DamnQ

an error in a join form entry can cause the transaction to stop before it even successfully reaches the process. you'll see the traffic to the join but no signups.... this is not because the site doesn't sell or because nats is fucking your ratios... its a setup error by the program owner. test a full, completed transaction... this will let u know if all is good..... moving on 2 the next question

After mentioning the slipping ratios to the guy who runs the program, the first thing I did was ask if it was Ok to try a test join, which I did and they refunded all which showed up in the stats. So what's the next thing I was supposed to test?