1001 questions from a newbie.... me.

[Star Man]

Originally Posted by ned02

Yeah that's exactly what the guys from rapidshare, sharedimages, imagefap, usercash, linkbucks and a half a dozen torrent sites were saying the other day.

I don't know about those sites so I don't get the reference but I take it that those sites are shutdown or something?

Originally Posted by ned02

The "we got 'em by the balls" era is long over and half past dead.

That wasn't a figure of speech.I/we grab them by their nut sac,drag them to the join page,pull the credit card out of their pocket and say 'Buy a pass mother fucker!'.Thats how it's done!It's called making a sale.

Not only is "we got 'em by the balls" alive,it's well!
(cute huh?)

[ned02]

Originally Posted by Star Man

I don't know about those sites so I don't get the reference but I take it that those sites are shutdown or something?



That wasn't a figure of speech.I/we grab them by their nut sac,drag them to the join page,pull the credit card out of their pocket and say 'Buy a pass mother fucker!'.Thats how it's done!It's called making a sale.

Not only is "we got 'em by the balls" alive,it's well!
(cute huh?)

Evidently you do not live on the same planet as most adult webmasters.
You really have to get out more often

Anyone who thinks they have the surfer by the balls is just perpetrating a lie about this industry.

Making money in adult has never been more difficult and that's a fact.

P2P networks, social porn sharing networks and torrent sites among others have taken a huge chunk out of the bottom line.
Time to make yourself aware of the new reality.

"We got 'em by the balls" is unfortunately over. Stop talking bullshit.

[Kisa]

I just can't get past sites like this http://www.pornhub.com/

I just can't get past that.... I'm looking at it and I'm thinking, why would anyone want to look at a few previews?

Are the distributors and studios going after sites like that one or is it just being accepted? It can't just be accepted... the studios, distributors, etc would stand to lose too much money if they don't start getting control of at least some of it...

But I go back to my original theory which is, I have no problem making the standard three page freesite (that I completely did not understand before) but I still don't know why anyone would wade through layers of links and then click through several pages when they can just go to pornhub or youporn?? I'm seriously not trying to be difficult... just trying to work it all out.

I would also add that submitting freesites and posting those links, etc is obviously the 'right' thing to do but if no one is pushing back against fucktards who are stealing content and posting it in its entirety, then everyone is doomed.... I got over the whole 'share' thing years ago when I finally had to start working. But it's hard to convince some little shit in a dorm room that people don't actually work for free so he can get off.... posting all that content is stealing but if no one's going after them then I guess it's theirs for the taking??? I don't know... I have no idea what's being done to stop it.

[Useless]

Originally Posted by Kisa

I just can't get past sites like this pornhub.com

Please don't link to sites like that in the future. (Typing the full URL allows the board software to automatically create a link.)

Originally Posted by Kisa

Are the distributors and studios going after sites like that one or is it just being accepted? It can't just be accepted... the studios, distributors, etc would stand to lose too much money if they don't start getting control of at least some of it...

Yes and no. Many, maybe most, studios and license owners are constantly on search-and-kill missions to remove their content from sites infringing on their copyrights. But as along as a few scumbag sponsors, e.g., AdultFriendFinder, Brazzers, etc., continue to support such sites with ad revenue, they aren't going away - and since non-tube webmasters continue to promote sponsors like that, the funding for tube sites is not being choked off.

Originally Posted by Kisa

But I go back to my original theory which is, I have no problem making the standard three page freesite (that I completely did not understand before) but I still don't know why anyone would wade through layers of links and then click through several pages when they can just go to pornhub or youporn??

The key is to get the surfer to your site first. Chances are, if they aren't already surfing stolen porn on a tube site, they either don't know about them or they're searching for something in particular. Grabbing those unspoiled surfers is typically about search engine optimization (SEO). If you can get your pages higher in the search results than the tubes, you get the first chance at the sale and the opportunity to keep that surfer away from the tubes.

Why would a surfer "wade through layers of links" to get at the porn? It's funny what a person with the will to get off will do. Certain surfers have always been willing to work their way through our labyrinth of ad spots during their search for whatever it is that works for them. Why do I PAY for television programming and still deal with commercials? Because that's how it is and they HAVE ME BY THE BALLS. (Hi ned.) A desire's need to be satiated overrides logic.

Originally Posted by Kisa

I would also add that submitting freesites and posting those links, etc is obviously the 'right' thing to do but if no one is pushing back against fucktards who are stealing content and posting it in its entirety, then everyone is doomed.... I got over the whole 'share' thing years ago when I finally had to start working. But it's hard to convince some little shit in a dorm room that people don't actually work for free so he can get off.... posting all that content is stealing but if no one's going after them then I guess it's theirs for the taking??? I don't know... I have no idea what's being done to stop it.

As a lone webmaster, you can't do much. The key is to remain focused on your pages, your sites, your little piece of the web. You're an intelligent person; think of ways to get those surfers before the evil empire can. Have your pages set up to immediately grab any porn surfer's attention the moment they land on your site, even if they were searching for a (goddamn) tube site.

<spam>
Many sponsors now offer embeddable Flash videos for use on your pages. One of my favorite sponsors, MovieRoom, just launched a great embeddable Flash movie player. If you put that movie player above the fold on your pages, a tube surfer will probably think that he/she has landed on a new tube site. It plays short clips, but it allows the surfer to view several clips, even change channels, without leaving your page. (It's available in multiple dimensions and you can choose which niche you want loaded first.)
</spam>

Optimizing for tube surfers/non-readers doesn't mean that you need to hand them a bunch of porn up front. Keep a good balance of SEO text and smartly named images. Give samples without giving away the farm. Providing more free porn than the next guy won't produce more sales. Tube sites are proof of that. Their ratios are reported to be absolute shit. But once you build Frankenstein, it's damn hard to put him down.

[Kisa]

Originally Posted by Useless Warrior

Please don't link to sites like that in the future. (Typing the full URL allows the board software to automatically create a link.)
Yes and no. Many, maybe most, studios and license owners are constantly on search-and-kill missions to remove their content from sites infringing on their copyrights. But as along as a few scumbag sponsors, e.g., AdultFriendFinder, Brazzers, etc., continue to support such sites with ad revenue, they aren't going away - and since non-tube webmasters continue to promote sponsors like that, the funding for tube sites is not being choked off.
The key is to get the surfer to your site first. Chances are, if they aren't already surfing stolen porn on a tube site, they either don't know about them or they're searching for something in particular. Grabbing those unspoiled surfers is typically about search engine optimization (SEO). If you can get your pages higher in the search results than the tubes, you get the first chance at the sale and the opportunity to keep that surfer away from the tubes.

Why would a surfer "wade through layers of links" to get at the porn? It's funny what a person with the will to get off will do. Certain surfers have always been willing to work their way through our labyrinth of ad spots during their search for whatever it is that works for them. Why do I PAY for television programming and still deal with commercials? Because that's how it is and they HAVE ME BY THE BALLS. (Hi ned.) A desire's need to be satiated overrides logic.


As a lone webmaster, you can't do much. The key is to remain focused on your pages, your sites, your little piece of the web. You're an intelligent person; think of ways to get those surfers before the evil empire can. Have your pages set up to immediately grab any porn surfer's attention the moment they land on your site, even if they were searching for a (goddamn) tube site.

<spam>
Many sponsors now offer embeddable Flash videos for use on your pages. One of my favorite sponsors, MovieRoom, just launched a great embeddable Flash movie player. If you put that movie player above the fold on your pages, a tube surfer will probably think that he/she has landed on a new tube site. It plays short clips, but it allows the surfer to view several clips, even change channels, without leaving your page. (It's available in multiple dimensions and you can choose which niche you want loaded first.)
</spam>

Optimizing for tube surfers/non-readers doesn't mean that you need to hand them a bunch of porn up front. Keep a good balance of SEO text and smartly named images. Give samples without giving away the farm. Providing more free porn than the next guy won't produce more sales. Tube sites are proof of that. Their ratios are reported to be absolute shit. But once you build Frankenstein, it's damn hard to put him down.

It's funny that you mention the tubesites ratio. I mean, it's like they're working for charity and they can only do that for so long. Those guys have Adult Friend Finder and Brazzers banners on their sites which tells me that they're trying to figure out how to make money and not doing it successfully. So maybe you're on to something in that they will eventually kill themselves off but I'm sure someone is always waiting to be the next to try.

It's unlikely that my little site will ever generate anything in revenues but I'm sticking around for many reasons most of which are political in nature. But I'll spare you my political prattle for now....

[ned02]

Well I sure am glad to see the flurry of new posts...
Got lots a spin control to do now dont'cha

The obvious point that you two geniuses fail to understand is that there is more then one opinion out there.
There is more then one approach, to selling, to understanding and to living.

You think you got 'em by the balls? Well good for you guys, you go right ahead and keep on thinking that while you count your declining revenue.

Just the other day I saw a promo from a sponsor offering free full length, tube style clips. Up to 30 minutes a clip for free.

These people are moving in a direction very far removed from your traditional and outdated free-site thing.

They seem to have a different opinion and evidently a wildly different approach to selling porn.

I would be glad to post a link to a sample of what they are offering, just let me know
Don't worry it's not on that big bad boogie man porn-hub, that's been stealing all your sales as of late.

As well you have to distinguish between teaching someone what a free site is (which is nice) and then using the opportunity to fill them with nonsense ideas (which is not nice).

[Kisa]

Originally Posted by ned02

Well I sure am glad to see the flurry of new posts...
Got lots a spin control to do now dont'cha

The obvious point that you two geniuses fail to understand is that there is more then one opinion out there.
There is more then one approach, to selling, to understanding and to living.

You think you got 'em by the balls? Well good for you guys, you go right ahead and keep on thinking that while you count your declining revenue.

Just the other day I saw a promo from a sponsor offering free full length, tube style clips. Up to 30 minutes a clip for free.

These people are moving in a direction very far removed from your traditional and outdated free-site thing.

They seem to have a different opinion and evidently a wildly different approach to selling porn.

I would be glad to post a link to a sample of what they are offering, just let me know
Don't worry it's not on that big bad boogie man porn-hub, that's been stealing all your sales as of late.

As well you have to distinguish between teaching someone what a free site is (which is nice) and then using the opportunity to fill them with nonsense ideas (which is not nice).

yeah, there seems to be a split in the industry as to which direction to go concerning how much content to give away. I would say the cat's out of the bag and so now all you can do is attempt to tame it and work around it, with it, etc....

[Star Man]

Originally Posted by Kisa

It's Kisa not Krista..

Sorry Kisa.I suck with names sometimes.

Originally Posted by ned02

You think you got 'em by the balls?

Yeah..just keep saying that over and over like a mantra you fucking idiot!
got 'em by the balls..got 'em by the balls..got 'em by the balls...

Did this phrase trigger off some chemical imbalance in your head or something ned02? If I would have known you were going to be so deeply effected by it,believe me,I would have used a different choice of words!

Originally Posted by ned02

Just the other day I saw a promo from a sponsor offering free full length, tube style clips. Up to 30 minutes a clip for free.

No!Not That! Anything but 30 minute porn clips!

BTW How are they free full length clips if only the first 30 minutes is free? Use your fucking head!

[Useless]

Originally Posted by ned02

Well I sure am glad to see the flurry of new posts...
Got lots a spin control to do now dont'cha

What spin control? You don't agree with me. So what? You're nothing to me. You disagreeing with me doesn't harm me or my opinions. If people reading this thread agree with you, I don't care. If they agree with me, I still don't care.

Originally Posted by ned02

The obvious point that you two geniuses fail to understand is that there is more then one opinion out there.
There is more then one approach, to selling, to understanding and to living.

No, ned - you're the non-genius who doesn't get that. You can't seem to express your opinion and give advice to Kisa without first attacking our opinions. You're the one who told Star man to "stop talking bullshit" because you disagree with his statements. You could have ignored what he said or respectfully disagreed and continued to dispense your own, but, for whatever childish reason, you had to declare that his opinions were bullshit.

Originally Posted by ned02

You think you got 'em by the balls? Well good for you guys, you go right ahead and keep on thinking that while you count your declining revenue.

You are fucking child. Buy the way, my income has increased over the last 4 months. Weird how someone could possibly make money while not agreeing with the almighty, yet unknown, ned, huh?

Originally Posted by ned02

They seem to have a different opinion and evidently a wildly different approach to selling porn.

Well, as stated, there are many, many ways to sell porn. Was that not obvious or did it just dawn on you?

Originally Posted by ned02

I would be glad to post a link to a sample of what they are offering, just let me know
Don't worry it's not on that big bad boogie man porn-hub, that's been stealing all your sales as of late.

Again, you're a child.

Originally Posted by ned02

As well you have to distinguish between teaching someone what a free site is (which is nice) and then using the opportunity to fill them with nonsense ideas (which is not nice).

Once again, you can't disagree with someone without referring to their opinions as "bullshit" or "nonsense." Of course, they're neither. We're discussing time-tested and proven ways of making sales. Just because it's not the same path that you follow, doesn't mean that it doesn't work. I assume that you simply don't know fuck-all.

[Kisa]

Originally Posted by Useless Warrior

Yes and no. Many, maybe most, studios and license owners are constantly on search-and-kill missions to remove their content from sites infringing on their copyrights. But as along as a few scumbag sponsors, e.g., AdultFriendFinder, Brazzers, etc., continue to support such sites with ad revenue, they aren't going away - and since non-tube webmasters continue to promote sponsors like that, the funding for tube sites is not being choked off.

You make a very good point. As I said without even realizing that you also pointed it out, I noticed those ads on the tube sites and I agree with what you're saying. I already took down all my AdultFF stuff but I do have one or two Brazzer ads but will probably take those down as well. And you're right that my little site doesn't effect much but maybe those are the changes in the 'rules' that need to be made. What if the big sites took a stand against people who promoted and supported those sites... for example, We won't list your site if you have content or banners from x, y, z??? Just a thought...

[Star Man]

You know,when I first read your response I started typing out a real hateful smart ass post but realized maybe I was a bit unclear and sounded cocky by my above statements so let me clarify.

Originally Posted by ned02

You really have to get out more often

good point...

Originally Posted by ned02

Anyone who thinks they have the surfer by the balls is just perpetrating a lie about this industry.

Realize I'm attempting to explain the concept of a free site to a girl that doesn't even know what one is and whose friends are telling her that the extra pages are 'annoying to click through' or whatever.My advice isn't for porn geniuses like you ok ned? We all know that ned02 knows EVERYTHING there is to know about the porn industry! Happy?

Let me explain 'by the balls' to you ned.I (and others I'm sure) attempt to create ads,text links,sites,content etc. that takes advantage of a surfer thinking with the head below the waist- Hence, 'I got them by the balls' literraly!Surfers have their pants around their ankles and I lure them in by the balls with porn,text ads etc.Nobody's perpetrating lie's or talking bullshit here ned.

I'm not some big shot webmaster but I do know how to make a sale and do so quite often and am willing to teach others how to do the same.So until surfers stop clicking on sponsor links and joing pay sites please ned02...SHUT THE FUCK UP!

[Kisa]

Originally Posted by Star Man

Realize I'm attempting to explain the concept of a free site to a girl that doesn't even know what one is and whose friends are telling her that the extra pages are 'annoying to click through' or whatever.My advice isn't for porn geniuses like you ok ned? We all know that ned02 knows EVERYTHING there is to know about the porn industry! Happy?

And I am so totally grateful for that because I really don't want to piss anyone off. But just to steer this thread away from hostility, I'm still curious to know, as a newbie, how one competes with pornhub.com and all the other sites just like them? Because before I came here, that was my definition (as just a person out there in the world) of what a free porn site was. So you can understand my confusion and why every time someone said that I didn't have a freesite or that's not a freesite confused the wholly hell out of me. The definition applies here, to the giant network of sites and webmasters and I get that now but it no longer applies to the world of surfers at large. The industry is being stomped on and stomped down by these massive and truly free porn sites and that's my question or statement: Is doing what worked ten years ago even valid now? And I'm not questioning anyone's intellect or ability. Obviously, many of you have created incredible empires and that is very impressive but I would be lying if I did not tell you that those empires are under serious threat. If Vivid can't figure out how to stem the losses and the numbers keep going down.....?????

Last night, I couldn't stop thinking about what the past few years have meant for adults working in the porn industry (as in the models/actors) I now believe that those people are being horribly exploited but it's not the porn industry that's doing it. It's the fucknuts at Pornhub, etc... I thought of the girls and the guys who expose themselves for the sake of making a living only to have it stolen away and that's sad. There's very little sympathy out there in the mainstream world for these people. It's much easier for Bono to go whine about his music being stolen..... no one wants to listen to a pornstar, they only want to watch it for free and then lie about it.

Anyway, I'll play by the rules because I don't really have a choice but I still believe that if the rules don't change, this Titanic will sink faster than it already is..... and no, I don't have a clue how things should change... But I'm pretty sure biting and snipping at each other isn't the answer

[Useless]

Originally Posted by ned02

"We got 'em by the balls" is unfortunately over. Stop talking bullshit.

Do you have a learning disability? You have completely miscomprehended what Star Man said and seem eager to create an argument over it. NEVER did he say that we have the surfers by the balls. He's saying that we have to lead them toward the sale. Perhaps they didn't tell you on that short bus, but some us are here to create sales, not continually hand away free porn with hopes of a 1:6000 ratio.

I really think that Kisa should keep listening to you, the guy who told her that having a warning page would harm her in the SEs, the guy who told her to get rid of the text on her site and hand the porn to the surfers immediately, the guy who speaks in generalities and disagrees with others while never quite explaining why. My guess is that you either know what you are doing and have piss-poor communication skills, or, your ultimate goal is to sink any possible future competition.

[Star Man]

Originally Posted by Useless Warrior

Do you have a learning disability? You have completely miscomprehended what Star Man said and seem eager to create an argument over it. NEVER did he say that we have the surfers by the balls. He's saying that we have to lead them toward the sale. Perhaps they didn't tell you on that short bus, but some us are here to create sales, not continually hand away free porn with hopes of a 1:6000 ratio.

Whew...I couldn't tell if I actually sounded THAT unclear or if this guy is just an idiot.Thanks UW.

Now gimmi a tasty cake with extra sprinkles you little grammar Nazi you!

[ned02]

Judging from the reaction of Starman and uw, I'd say I hit the nail on the head

Originally Posted by Star Man

We're the ones with the free porn here and we're running the show so if we feel like making surfers go through 5 pages of bullshit to get to the porn not only are they going to like it,their going to beg for seconds!Were calling the shots here!We got em by the balls and their credit cards!

The above quote has to be one of the most misleading bits of self-promoting drivel I have read in a long time!

You keep running the show and keep your head buried in the sand while the rest of us go out and deal realistically with tube sites, torrents and P2P networks.

[Useless]

Originally Posted by ned02

The above quote has to be one of the most misleading bits of self-promoting drivel I have read in a long time!

You keep running the show and keep your head buried in the sand while the rest of us go out and deal realistically with tube sites, torrents and P2P networks.

Again, you are either an idiot or deliberately misinterpreting what is being said.

[ned02]

Originally Posted by Useless Warrior

Again, you are either an idiot or deliberately misinterpreting what is being said.

Nice spin... I suppose I could say the same thing about you.

[Star Man]

Originally Posted by ned02

Judging from the reaction of Starman and uw, I'd say I hit the nail on the head

This is whats called building a 'straw man' attack.You don't actually have a point to attack so you created one out of nothing.Either that or your just below average intelligence.Judging from the reaction of Starman and uw, I'd say their both confused and bewildered by your behavior.

Originally Posted by ned02

The above quote has to be one of the most misleading bits of self-promoting drivel I have read in a long time!

I rewrote my misleading quote for you in a way you can understand. The top one is my original quote and the bottom is the simplified version.Dare to compare :

original quote

We're the ones with the free porn here and we're running the show so if we feel like making surfers go through 5 pages of bullshit to get to the porn not only are they going to like it,their going to beg for seconds!Were calling the shots here!We got em by the balls and their credit cards!

the dumbed down version so ned02 can understand it

Online Porn is like a TV show.And just like watching a TV show we have something called commercials.Surfers do have to see them to get to the free porn and they don't mind at all, in fact they keep surfing at our sites all night long and many even bookmark us.These surfers DO click on our sponsor links and they DO pay for porn memberships

[Kisa]

Originally Posted by Star Man

original quote
Quote:
We're the ones with the free porn here and we're running the show so if we feel like making surfers go through 5 pages of bullshit to get to the porn not only are they going to like it,their going to beg for seconds!Were calling the shots here!We got em by the balls and their credit cards!
the dumbed down version so ned02 can understand it
Quote:
Online Porn is like a TV show.And just like watching a TV show we have something called commercials.Surfers do have to see them to get to the free porn and they don't mind at all, in fact they keep surfing at our sites all night long and many even bookmark us.These surfers DO click on our sponsor links and they DO pay for porn memberships

Sort of. The ratios in both cases are terrible and getting worse. No one can figure out how to stop the leaking. Not TV, not online....

No one will answer my question: Why would you buy a membership if you can go to pornhub.com? It's an honest question. And just saying that it's up to me or whoever to convince or 'trick' the person into thinking they 'need' a membership doesn't count. Consumers are far more savvy than that and it's dangerous to underestimate them. (btw: I keep using pornhub as an example but they're hardly alone)

[Star Man]

Originally Posted by ned02

You keep running the show and keep your head buried in the sand while the rest of us go out and deal realistically with tube sites, torrents and P2P networks.

Gee,Krista starts talking about porn tube sites and all of a sudden your running tube sites and link lists suck huh?Your obviously on some fucked up disinfo campaign here.Who do you think your fooling dude?

[Kisa]

Originally Posted by Star Man

Gee,Krista starts talking about porn tube sites and all of a sudden your running tube sites and link lists suck huh?Your obviously on some fucked up disinfo campaign here.Who do you think your fooling dude?

It's Kisa not Krista.. But I didn't Ned to point out the tubesites. I asked why anyone would by a membership early on in this thread. I'm here. And as corny and stupid as you may think this is, I do have some weird protective attitude to all those girls in Prague and Budapest who are working and not making money. So my interest is more than my little weenie site and now that I'm here, you're all stuck with me.