1001 questions from a newbie.... me.

[Kisa]

Originally Posted by HowlingWulf

Ok, so how many uniques do you think is 'quite well'?
For me, a TGP gallery does 'good' at 50k uniques and 'great' at 100k uniques.
Do you know your CTR (Click-Through-Ratio)? In other words, what % of uniques from your gallery click through to your sponsor(s)?

HowlingWulf, good for me right now is anything +0. My site got 36K hits (not uniques) last week and I was okay with that but not deluded into thinking that was any kind of significant traffic. Any traffic for me right now is bonus. There's no reason for anyone to know who I am. Tigermom mentioned earlier in the thread that the 'quality' of the traffic generated from submitted pages was questionable and I can understand that, so I was just pleased that anyone came back at all and even more surprised that at least 100 of them landed on one of my sponsor's pages. So, I just have about 100,000 more to go before I get a sale...lol....

[Kisa]

Originally Posted by Star Man

Fonz pretty much nailed it.Let me attempt to break it down for you as well just to drive it home.After all,repetition is the best way to learn something new.

For now on,let's refer to your main site http://sexysascha.com/ as your hub.On this page you don't have to follow any rules so you can do whatever your little heart desires although I recommend keeping your current design or something similar because it looks great.

Now let's move on to free sites and galleries.

This http://sexysascha.com/free181/swedishteen/ is called a gallery.TGP's list these.Surfers click through these quickly and usually pass up or don't even notice your advertisement.It takes LOT'S of traffic to benefit from these types of pages.

This
http://www.crazyfetishporn.com/frees...x/matureadult/ is a 'mini site' called a free site.Link lists list these.Surfers have to do a bit of surfing before they get to the porn.It's sort of like saying 'heres your porn...but first the bullshit! The bullshit is where you make your money!

Most everyone at this board is into mostly building and listing 'free sites' like the one I listed above.Although every 'free site' has it's own unique look and design,they all maintain a standard structure to them - a waring page, a main page, and 2 or more galleries. This never changes.



Were the ones with the free porn here and were running the show so if we feel like making surfers go through 5 pages of bullshit to get to the porn not only are they going to like it,their going to beg for seconds!Were calling the shots here!We got em by the balls and their credit cards!

Ah HA! It's sinking in! So the freesites are almost like be baby versions of your main site? And are used to promote sponsors etc? Okay, but this is where I'm confused... please hang in here with me..... but aren't there are all sorts of rules about how many links/banners can be on a freesite etc? This confuses me. Is that per page? Because, you can get a lot on three pages. So I finally understand the freesite thing (this was just so lost on me at first) but what is actually on those first two pages seems to vary widely? yes? no?

And another question: are there any benefits to submitting a TGP?

I owe you guys so much- believe it or not, I do have some skills so hopefully there will be a way for me to make all of this up to you later..

Okay, one more question. With all the free porn out there, how does one compete? Like with this guy (and I'm sorry if you're around on this board but I don't understand) anyway, this guy: http://www.spankwire.com/ When I see that I get thrown all off course....

Thank you for everything and I will make it up to you somehow!!!

[Star Man]

Originally Posted by Kisa

Ah HA! It's sinking in! So the freesites are almost like be baby versions of your main site? And are used to promote sponsors etc? Okay, but this is where I'm confused... please hang in here with me..... but aren't there are all sorts of rules about how many links/banners can be on a freesite etc? This confuses me.

Good! I wasn't sure if I was rambling or actually making sense.Yeah free sites are sorta like a baby porn site and YES these are the ones that have to follow the rules but heres the deal - LOR is the big boss man on anything and everything having to do with free sites so if you follow his Free Site Listing Rules ,your site will get listed almost anywhere.

Originally Posted by Kisa

but what is actually on those first two pages seems to vary widely? yes? no?

I'm not sure I understand your question but I suggest going to The Greenguy Link O'Rama Main Page ,pick a category that you like and hit each site on down the page.This should help.

Originally Posted by Kisa

And another question: are there any benefits to submitting a TGP?

Yes but like I said,it takes a whole lotta traffic to see any benefits from TGP's.Look at it like this - TGP's are for speed and the traffic isn't that good.Link Lists are for endurance.You won't receive as much traffic but the quality of the traffic is much better,plus your free site will see traffic from search engines and link lists for years to come.

Originally Posted by Kisa

I owe you guys so much- believe it or not, I do have some skills so hopefully there will be a way for me to make all of this up to you later..

|idea|Well,theres always......(Star Man-get your mind out of the gutter...)


we just want to see you do well Krista

Originally Posted by Kisa

Okay, one more question. With all the free porn out there, how does one compete? Like with this guy (and I'm sorry if you're around on this board but I don't understand) anyway, this guy: http://www.spankwire.com/ When I see that I get thrown all off course....

Well it's not easy.One thing I learned though - surfers could care less about all the great art work and other flashy BS.They want to see porn so don't drive your self crazy with all the fancy stuff.Remember,the duller your site looks (to a extent),the better your sponsor site is going to look when they click on it.

Originally Posted by Kisa

Thank you for everything and I will make it up to you somehow!!!

..........we just want to see you do well Krista

[Kisa]

Originally Posted by MrMaryLou

Kisa, I gotta ask after all the great information you have been given why would you submit this as a free site? to http://sexysascha.com/free181/swedishteen/ It's not a free site at all.

Okay, I got it now. I'm sorry. It was really like everyone was speaking Japanese to me with the mention of "free site." I'm fixing it Thanks for being patient.

Thanks again Star Man! You're sort of like the Special Ed teacher for the board!

[Star Man]

Originally Posted by Kisa

You're sort of like the Special Ed teacher for the board!

Some days I'm the teacher,other day's I show up with my special helmet on too.


Glad I could help.

[HowlingWulf]

>> And another question: are there any benefits to submitting a TGP?

Funny I just posted this the other day. Maybe it helps.
http://www.greenguysboard.com/board/...ad.php?t=50334

[ned02]

Originally Posted by Star Man

Were the ones with the free porn here and were running the show so if we feel like making surfers go through 5 pages of bullshit to get to the porn not only are they going to like it,their going to beg for seconds!Were calling the shots here!We got em by the balls and their credit cards!

Yeah that's exactly what the guys from rapidshare, sharedimages, imagefap, usercash, linkbucks and a half a dozen torrent sites were saying the other day.

You gotta be lean and mean and adapt or die...Kisa is correct in that she wants to adapt even though she may be a little or a lot off course.
The idea of adapting is what will see her through in the long run.
The "we got 'em by the balls" era is long over and half past dead.

[Star Man]

Originally Posted by ned02

Yeah that's exactly what the guys from rapidshare, sharedimages, imagefap, usercash, linkbucks and a half a dozen torrent sites were saying the other day.

I don't know about those sites so I don't get the reference but I take it that those sites are shutdown or something?

Originally Posted by ned02

The "we got 'em by the balls" era is long over and half past dead.

That wasn't a figure of speech.I/we grab them by their nut sac,drag them to the join page,pull the credit card out of their pocket and say 'Buy a pass mother fucker!'.Thats how it's done!It's called making a sale.

Not only is "we got 'em by the balls" alive,it's well!
(cute huh?)

[ned02]

Originally Posted by Star Man

I don't know about those sites so I don't get the reference but I take it that those sites are shutdown or something?



That wasn't a figure of speech.I/we grab them by their nut sac,drag them to the join page,pull the credit card out of their pocket and say 'Buy a pass mother fucker!'.Thats how it's done!It's called making a sale.

Not only is "we got 'em by the balls" alive,it's well!
(cute huh?)

Evidently you do not live on the same planet as most adult webmasters.
You really have to get out more often

Anyone who thinks they have the surfer by the balls is just perpetrating a lie about this industry.

Making money in adult has never been more difficult and that's a fact.

P2P networks, social porn sharing networks and torrent sites among others have taken a huge chunk out of the bottom line.
Time to make yourself aware of the new reality.

"We got 'em by the balls" is unfortunately over. Stop talking bullshit.

[Kisa]

I just can't get past sites like this http://www.pornhub.com/

I just can't get past that.... I'm looking at it and I'm thinking, why would anyone want to look at a few previews?

Are the distributors and studios going after sites like that one or is it just being accepted? It can't just be accepted... the studios, distributors, etc would stand to lose too much money if they don't start getting control of at least some of it...

But I go back to my original theory which is, I have no problem making the standard three page freesite (that I completely did not understand before) but I still don't know why anyone would wade through layers of links and then click through several pages when they can just go to pornhub or youporn?? I'm seriously not trying to be difficult... just trying to work it all out.

I would also add that submitting freesites and posting those links, etc is obviously the 'right' thing to do but if no one is pushing back against fucktards who are stealing content and posting it in its entirety, then everyone is doomed.... I got over the whole 'share' thing years ago when I finally had to start working. But it's hard to convince some little shit in a dorm room that people don't actually work for free so he can get off.... posting all that content is stealing but if no one's going after them then I guess it's theirs for the taking??? I don't know... I have no idea what's being done to stop it.

[Star Man]

You know,when I first read your response I started typing out a real hateful smart ass post but realized maybe I was a bit unclear and sounded cocky by my above statements so let me clarify.

Originally Posted by ned02

You really have to get out more often

good point...

Originally Posted by ned02

Anyone who thinks they have the surfer by the balls is just perpetrating a lie about this industry.

Realize I'm attempting to explain the concept of a free site to a girl that doesn't even know what one is and whose friends are telling her that the extra pages are 'annoying to click through' or whatever.My advice isn't for porn geniuses like you ok ned? We all know that ned02 knows EVERYTHING there is to know about the porn industry! Happy?

Let me explain 'by the balls' to you ned.I (and others I'm sure) attempt to create ads,text links,sites,content etc. that takes advantage of a surfer thinking with the head below the waist- Hence, 'I got them by the balls' literraly!Surfers have their pants around their ankles and I lure them in by the balls with porn,text ads etc.Nobody's perpetrating lie's or talking bullshit here ned.

I'm not some big shot webmaster but I do know how to make a sale and do so quite often and am willing to teach others how to do the same.So until surfers stop clicking on sponsor links and joing pay sites please ned02...SHUT THE FUCK UP!

[Useless]

Originally Posted by ned02

"We got 'em by the balls" is unfortunately over. Stop talking bullshit.

Do you have a learning disability? You have completely miscomprehended what Star Man said and seem eager to create an argument over it. NEVER did he say that we have the surfers by the balls. He's saying that we have to lead them toward the sale. Perhaps they didn't tell you on that short bus, but some us are here to create sales, not continually hand away free porn with hopes of a 1:6000 ratio.

I really think that Kisa should keep listening to you, the guy who told her that having a warning page would harm her in the SEs, the guy who told her to get rid of the text on her site and hand the porn to the surfers immediately, the guy who speaks in generalities and disagrees with others while never quite explaining why. My guess is that you either know what you are doing and have piss-poor communication skills, or, your ultimate goal is to sink any possible future competition.

[Star Man]

Originally Posted by Useless Warrior

Do you have a learning disability? You have completely miscomprehended what Star Man said and seem eager to create an argument over it. NEVER did he say that we have the surfers by the balls. He's saying that we have to lead them toward the sale. Perhaps they didn't tell you on that short bus, but some us are here to create sales, not continually hand away free porn with hopes of a 1:6000 ratio.

Whew...I couldn't tell if I actually sounded THAT unclear or if this guy is just an idiot.Thanks UW.

Now gimmi a tasty cake with extra sprinkles you little grammar Nazi you!

[ned02]

Judging from the reaction of Starman and uw, I'd say I hit the nail on the head

Originally Posted by Star Man

We're the ones with the free porn here and we're running the show so if we feel like making surfers go through 5 pages of bullshit to get to the porn not only are they going to like it,their going to beg for seconds!Were calling the shots here!We got em by the balls and their credit cards!

The above quote has to be one of the most misleading bits of self-promoting drivel I have read in a long time!

You keep running the show and keep your head buried in the sand while the rest of us go out and deal realistically with tube sites, torrents and P2P networks.

[Useless]

Originally Posted by ned02

The above quote has to be one of the most misleading bits of self-promoting drivel I have read in a long time!

You keep running the show and keep your head buried in the sand while the rest of us go out and deal realistically with tube sites, torrents and P2P networks.

Again, you are either an idiot or deliberately misinterpreting what is being said.

[ned02]

Originally Posted by Useless Warrior

Again, you are either an idiot or deliberately misinterpreting what is being said.

Nice spin... I suppose I could say the same thing about you.

[Useless]

Originally Posted by ned02

Nice spin... I suppose I could say the same thing about you.

Yeah, yeah, bounces off me and sticks to you. Whatever.

[Star Man]

Originally Posted by ned02

Judging from the reaction of Starman and uw, I'd say I hit the nail on the head

This is whats called building a 'straw man' attack.You don't actually have a point to attack so you created one out of nothing.Either that or your just below average intelligence.Judging from the reaction of Starman and uw, I'd say their both confused and bewildered by your behavior.

Originally Posted by ned02

The above quote has to be one of the most misleading bits of self-promoting drivel I have read in a long time!

I rewrote my misleading quote for you in a way you can understand. The top one is my original quote and the bottom is the simplified version.Dare to compare :

original quote

We're the ones with the free porn here and we're running the show so if we feel like making surfers go through 5 pages of bullshit to get to the porn not only are they going to like it,their going to beg for seconds!Were calling the shots here!We got em by the balls and their credit cards!

the dumbed down version so ned02 can understand it

Online Porn is like a TV show.And just like watching a TV show we have something called commercials.Surfers do have to see them to get to the free porn and they don't mind at all, in fact they keep surfing at our sites all night long and many even bookmark us.These surfers DO click on our sponsor links and they DO pay for porn memberships

[Kisa]

Originally Posted by Star Man

Realize I'm attempting to explain the concept of a free site to a girl that doesn't even know what one is and whose friends are telling her that the extra pages are 'annoying to click through' or whatever.My advice isn't for porn geniuses like you ok ned? We all know that ned02 knows EVERYTHING there is to know about the porn industry! Happy?

And I am so totally grateful for that because I really don't want to piss anyone off. But just to steer this thread away from hostility, I'm still curious to know, as a newbie, how one competes with pornhub.com and all the other sites just like them? Because before I came here, that was my definition (as just a person out there in the world) of what a free porn site was. So you can understand my confusion and why every time someone said that I didn't have a freesite or that's not a freesite confused the wholly hell out of me. The definition applies here, to the giant network of sites and webmasters and I get that now but it no longer applies to the world of surfers at large. The industry is being stomped on and stomped down by these massive and truly free porn sites and that's my question or statement: Is doing what worked ten years ago even valid now? And I'm not questioning anyone's intellect or ability. Obviously, many of you have created incredible empires and that is very impressive but I would be lying if I did not tell you that those empires are under serious threat. If Vivid can't figure out how to stem the losses and the numbers keep going down.....?????

Last night, I couldn't stop thinking about what the past few years have meant for adults working in the porn industry (as in the models/actors) I now believe that those people are being horribly exploited but it's not the porn industry that's doing it. It's the fucknuts at Pornhub, etc... I thought of the girls and the guys who expose themselves for the sake of making a living only to have it stolen away and that's sad. There's very little sympathy out there in the mainstream world for these people. It's much easier for Bono to go whine about his music being stolen..... no one wants to listen to a pornstar, they only want to watch it for free and then lie about it.

Anyway, I'll play by the rules because I don't really have a choice but I still believe that if the rules don't change, this Titanic will sink faster than it already is..... and no, I don't have a clue how things should change... But I'm pretty sure biting and snipping at each other isn't the answer

[Star Man]

Originally Posted by ned02

You keep running the show and keep your head buried in the sand while the rest of us go out and deal realistically with tube sites, torrents and P2P networks.

Gee,Krista starts talking about porn tube sites and all of a sudden your running tube sites and link lists suck huh?Your obviously on some fucked up disinfo campaign here.Who do you think your fooling dude?

[Kisa]

Originally Posted by Star Man

original quote
Quote:
We're the ones with the free porn here and we're running the show so if we feel like making surfers go through 5 pages of bullshit to get to the porn not only are they going to like it,their going to beg for seconds!Were calling the shots here!We got em by the balls and their credit cards!
the dumbed down version so ned02 can understand it
Quote:
Online Porn is like a TV show.And just like watching a TV show we have something called commercials.Surfers do have to see them to get to the free porn and they don't mind at all, in fact they keep surfing at our sites all night long and many even bookmark us.These surfers DO click on our sponsor links and they DO pay for porn memberships

Sort of. The ratios in both cases are terrible and getting worse. No one can figure out how to stop the leaking. Not TV, not online....

No one will answer my question: Why would you buy a membership if you can go to pornhub.com? It's an honest question. And just saying that it's up to me or whoever to convince or 'trick' the person into thinking they 'need' a membership doesn't count. Consumers are far more savvy than that and it's dangerous to underestimate them. (btw: I keep using pornhub as an example but they're hardly alone)

[Kisa]

Originally Posted by Star Man

Gee,Krista starts talking about porn tube sites and all of a sudden your running tube sites and link lists suck huh?Your obviously on some fucked up disinfo campaign here.Who do you think your fooling dude?

It's Kisa not Krista.. But I didn't Ned to point out the tubesites. I asked why anyone would by a membership early on in this thread. I'm here. And as corny and stupid as you may think this is, I do have some weird protective attitude to all those girls in Prague and Budapest who are working and not making money. So my interest is more than my little weenie site and now that I'm here, you're all stuck with me.

[Useless]

Originally Posted by Kisa

I just can't get past sites like this pornhub.com

Please don't link to sites like that in the future. (Typing the full URL allows the board software to automatically create a link.)

Originally Posted by Kisa

Are the distributors and studios going after sites like that one or is it just being accepted? It can't just be accepted... the studios, distributors, etc would stand to lose too much money if they don't start getting control of at least some of it...

Yes and no. Many, maybe most, studios and license owners are constantly on search-and-kill missions to remove their content from sites infringing on their copyrights. But as along as a few scumbag sponsors, e.g., AdultFriendFinder, Brazzers, etc., continue to support such sites with ad revenue, they aren't going away - and since non-tube webmasters continue to promote sponsors like that, the funding for tube sites is not being choked off.

Originally Posted by Kisa

But I go back to my original theory which is, I have no problem making the standard three page freesite (that I completely did not understand before) but I still don't know why anyone would wade through layers of links and then click through several pages when they can just go to pornhub or youporn??

The key is to get the surfer to your site first. Chances are, if they aren't already surfing stolen porn on a tube site, they either don't know about them or they're searching for something in particular. Grabbing those unspoiled surfers is typically about search engine optimization (SEO). If you can get your pages higher in the search results than the tubes, you get the first chance at the sale and the opportunity to keep that surfer away from the tubes.

Why would a surfer "wade through layers of links" to get at the porn? It's funny what a person with the will to get off will do. Certain surfers have always been willing to work their way through our labyrinth of ad spots during their search for whatever it is that works for them. Why do I PAY for television programming and still deal with commercials? Because that's how it is and they HAVE ME BY THE BALLS. (Hi ned.) A desire's need to be satiated overrides logic.

Originally Posted by Kisa

I would also add that submitting freesites and posting those links, etc is obviously the 'right' thing to do but if no one is pushing back against fucktards who are stealing content and posting it in its entirety, then everyone is doomed.... I got over the whole 'share' thing years ago when I finally had to start working. But it's hard to convince some little shit in a dorm room that people don't actually work for free so he can get off.... posting all that content is stealing but if no one's going after them then I guess it's theirs for the taking??? I don't know... I have no idea what's being done to stop it.

As a lone webmaster, you can't do much. The key is to remain focused on your pages, your sites, your little piece of the web. You're an intelligent person; think of ways to get those surfers before the evil empire can. Have your pages set up to immediately grab any porn surfer's attention the moment they land on your site, even if they were searching for a (goddamn) tube site.

<spam>
Many sponsors now offer embeddable Flash videos for use on your pages. One of my favorite sponsors, MovieRoom, just launched a great embeddable Flash movie player. If you put that movie player above the fold on your pages, a tube surfer will probably think that he/she has landed on a new tube site. It plays short clips, but it allows the surfer to view several clips, even change channels, without leaving your page. (It's available in multiple dimensions and you can choose which niche you want loaded first.)
</spam>

Optimizing for tube surfers/non-readers doesn't mean that you need to hand them a bunch of porn up front. Keep a good balance of SEO text and smartly named images. Give samples without giving away the farm. Providing more free porn than the next guy won't produce more sales. Tube sites are proof of that. Their ratios are reported to be absolute shit. But once you build Frankenstein, it's damn hard to put him down.

[Kisa]

Originally Posted by Useless Warrior

Please don't link to sites like that in the future. (Typing the full URL allows the board software to automatically create a link.)
Yes and no. Many, maybe most, studios and license owners are constantly on search-and-kill missions to remove their content from sites infringing on their copyrights. But as along as a few scumbag sponsors, e.g., AdultFriendFinder, Brazzers, etc., continue to support such sites with ad revenue, they aren't going away - and since non-tube webmasters continue to promote sponsors like that, the funding for tube sites is not being choked off.
The key is to get the surfer to your site first. Chances are, if they aren't already surfing stolen porn on a tube site, they either don't know about them or they're searching for something in particular. Grabbing those unspoiled surfers is typically about search engine optimization (SEO). If you can get your pages higher in the search results than the tubes, you get the first chance at the sale and the opportunity to keep that surfer away from the tubes.

Why would a surfer "wade through layers of links" to get at the porn? It's funny what a person with the will to get off will do. Certain surfers have always been willing to work their way through our labyrinth of ad spots during their search for whatever it is that works for them. Why do I PAY for television programming and still deal with commercials? Because that's how it is and they HAVE ME BY THE BALLS. (Hi ned.) A desire's need to be satiated overrides logic.


As a lone webmaster, you can't do much. The key is to remain focused on your pages, your sites, your little piece of the web. You're an intelligent person; think of ways to get those surfers before the evil empire can. Have your pages set up to immediately grab any porn surfer's attention the moment they land on your site, even if they were searching for a (goddamn) tube site.

<spam>
Many sponsors now offer embeddable Flash videos for use on your pages. One of my favorite sponsors, MovieRoom, just launched a great embeddable Flash movie player. If you put that movie player above the fold on your pages, a tube surfer will probably think that he/she has landed on a new tube site. It plays short clips, but it allows the surfer to view several clips, even change channels, without leaving your page. (It's available in multiple dimensions and you can choose which niche you want loaded first.)
</spam>

Optimizing for tube surfers/non-readers doesn't mean that you need to hand them a bunch of porn up front. Keep a good balance of SEO text and smartly named images. Give samples without giving away the farm. Providing more free porn than the next guy won't produce more sales. Tube sites are proof of that. Their ratios are reported to be absolute shit. But once you build Frankenstein, it's damn hard to put him down.

It's funny that you mention the tubesites ratio. I mean, it's like they're working for charity and they can only do that for so long. Those guys have Adult Friend Finder and Brazzers banners on their sites which tells me that they're trying to figure out how to make money and not doing it successfully. So maybe you're on to something in that they will eventually kill themselves off but I'm sure someone is always waiting to be the next to try.

It's unlikely that my little site will ever generate anything in revenues but I'm sticking around for many reasons most of which are political in nature. But I'll spare you my political prattle for now....

[Kisa]

Originally Posted by Useless Warrior

Yes and no. Many, maybe most, studios and license owners are constantly on search-and-kill missions to remove their content from sites infringing on their copyrights. But as along as a few scumbag sponsors, e.g., AdultFriendFinder, Brazzers, etc., continue to support such sites with ad revenue, they aren't going away - and since non-tube webmasters continue to promote sponsors like that, the funding for tube sites is not being choked off.

You make a very good point. As I said without even realizing that you also pointed it out, I noticed those ads on the tube sites and I agree with what you're saying. I already took down all my AdultFF stuff but I do have one or two Brazzer ads but will probably take those down as well. And you're right that my little site doesn't effect much but maybe those are the changes in the 'rules' that need to be made. What if the big sites took a stand against people who promoted and supported those sites... for example, We won't list your site if you have content or banners from x, y, z??? Just a thought...