Oldschool reinvented noob got a few questions!

JD · 2006-11-06, 08:36 PM

Hi all, I like this board, which brings me to post here

I was a webmaster back in 99, so stuffed around with free sites a bit and then into avs for years and it died a horrible death (avs), and so did my bank account, oh well |confused|
Then I did galleries for a while (yukk), hated them, lots of work for little result imho. So three weeks ago I've gone back to my free site stuff, where I really started, back when there was only 6 or so big sponsors around . Now I see theres zillions and zillions of them.

My questions based on the new breed of free site builders follows:

1. Can you still make a living creating free sites these days? Probably a dumb ass question considering all the people on here that make them, unless you all do it part time )

2.Are there any sponsors that basically you just won't get listed with (even if you have 2 day old content from them)? For example, I've been using deecash and I like them, dont seem to have a problem with getting listed, BUT if I used nasty dollars with new content would I still get listed on the major sites? I guess I'm looking for a list of a few sponsors that just wont be accepted at the larger link lists, if thats the case. I imagine its a bit different than the gallery people though, there they are very strict with you having hte same sponsors they have on their sites.

3. I am building one or two free sites each day and submitting them to 20 or so link lists. I know its a difficult question to answer, but how long (ball park figure) is it taking you guys to see lets say a sale a day after submitting every day? I know thats a small ammount of income but I realise things take a long time, like Xallow (sp?), after 3 weeks of solid work, I havent seen much in sales or traffic, but I do realise, like the tgp game(only way its like it), it does take time to get the traffic coming in and getting listed (at ll's and se's). So do you think after 3 months of submitting daily I might see a couple sales a day from the work? (I know its a tough question, depends of multiple factores)

4. Vids or pics these days? I've tried some free movie sites, and pic sites as well, and for some reason, I'm not seeing as much traffic to the movie sites. What are you experienced builders finding? Pics or movies, or a mixture of the two (not on same site, thats a no no I hear?

5. Whats bandwidth like these days making and submitting 1 or 2 sites a day to all the large sites? Is it pretty small? I am used to large BW on the galleries in the past, just wondering if a 10mb server is required in the long run of free site building if you are using movies a lot?

6. Htaccess - do u guys still use it? Do u use something to protect movies as well?

Thanks guys, sorry for all the questions, I've been reading lots on here, and found some good posts, now its just a matter of getting past the pain barrier of building until I can see some results for the hard work!
I know there wont be the bullshit that you get at gfy with everyone saying they are making millions at this stuff )

JD
(justin)

Xallow · 2006-11-06, 08:57 PM

Not much I can tell You JD, since I am still pretty new myself, but I can tell You that submitting to 20 LL's is probably not enough... I submit each FS to up to 80 LL's and I know there are some here that are well over 100 LL's.

juggernaut · 2006-11-06, 09:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JD

Hi all, I like this board, which brings me to post here

I was a webmaster back in 99, so stuffed around with free sites a bit and then into avs for years and it died a horrible death (avs), and so did my bank account, oh well |confused|
Then I did galleries for a while (yukk), hated them, lots of work for little result imho. So three weeks ago I've gone back to my free site stuff, where I really started, back when there was only 6 or so big sponsors around . Now I see theres zillions and zillions of them.

My questions based on the new breed of free site builders follows:

1. Can you still make a living creating free sites these days? Probably a dumb ass question considering all the people on here that make them, unless you all do it part time )

2.Are there any sponsors that basically you just won't get listed with (even if you have 2 day old content from them)? For example, I've been using deecash and I like them, dont seem to have a problem with getting listed, BUT if I used nasty dollars with new content would I still get listed on the major sites? I guess I'm looking for a list of a few sponsors that just wont be accepted at the larger link lists, if thats the case. I imagine its a bit different than the gallery people though, there they are very strict with you having hte same sponsors they have on their sites.

3. I am building one or two free sites each day and submitting them to 20 or so link lists. I know its a difficult question to answer, but how long (ball park figure) is it taking you guys to see lets say a sale a day after submitting every day? I know thats a small ammount of income but I realise things take a long time, like Xallow (sp?), after 3 weeks of solid work, I havent seen much in sales or traffic, but I do realise, like the tgp game(only way its like it), it does take time to get the traffic coming in and getting listed (at ll's and se's). So do you think after 3 months of submitting daily I might see a couple sales a day from the work? (I know its a tough question, depends of multiple factores)

4. Vids or pics these days? I've tried some free movie sites, and pic sites as well, and for some reason, I'm not seeing as much traffic to the movie sites. What are you experienced builders finding? Pics or movies, or a mixture of the two (not on same site, thats a no no I hear?

5. Whats bandwidth like these days making and submitting 1 or 2 sites a day to all the large sites? Is it pretty small? I am used to large BW on the galleries in the past, just wondering if a 10mb server is required in the long run of free site building if you are using movies a lot?

6. Htaccess - do u guys still use it? Do u use something to protect movies as well?

Thanks guys, sorry for all the questions, I've been reading lots on here, and found some good posts, now its just a matter of getting past the pain barrier of building until I can see some results for the hard work!
I know there wont be the bullshit that you get at gfy with everyone saying they are making millions at this stuff )

JD
(justin)

I can only help you answer a couple of these and I'm sure others will follow.

1) I think you can still make a living with FS but you have to be agressive. It's like anything else, flood the market and sales should come in as long as you keep up with it.

2) I stick with the sponsers GG has listed here and if I don't get listed with their stuff then I move on and just keep submitting. Set it can forget it. I dont dwell much on why they did not accept it, maybe I should as I guess I could get BL if I keep submitting stuff they don't want but I read the rules and submitting something someone does not like cause it's over used IMO should not get you BL. Cheating and not reading the rules will get your BL.

3) Put up some examples and others will tell you whats wrong. Depending on the amount of traffic I would think in 3 months you should have seen 1 or 2. But like you said others factors here so put up some examples and let the more seasoned pros give better advice on that.

4) I'll let a more seasoned pro work this. I don't deal with vids to much.

5) I would not worry about it till you get an overage bill. There are enough companies out there that you can work with to deal with this old nightmare. I would not buy a server either, not at this time. If you set the site up right and small then you should not really have a problem with page load times, I would think you need a shitload in order to kill your BW. Besides if you are going to go with movies I would let the sponser host that stuff.

6) Yes it's still used and used very often. It's your savor in most cases for blocking crap. And as far as blocking movies I have read two opinons. One says you can do it and one says you can't. The one that said you can't made much more technical sence to me and when I tried it I could not get it to work. I honestly believe you can't protect movies with that file. I think you need software or something. But remember opinons are like assholes. If someone here does have it working I'm sure others here would love to know how.

JD · 2006-11-07, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xallow

Not much I can tell You JD, since I am still pretty new myself, but I can tell You that submitting to 20 LL's is probably not enough... I submit each FS to up to 80 LL's and I know there are some here that are well over 100 LL's.

Hi Xallow

Well, I submit to 16 per mirror page, so at the moment I'm just submitting 32 all together. So you have 4 or more mirror pages per site yeh? I find it a bit tricky when you get to say number 20 and lower, where to list them on which recip table especially not to offend them with smaller link lists on their table. For example some of the smaller link lists still say they want to be listed with the big link lists, which is a bit hard when you have all the big ones together. How do you go with this organisational stuff??

JD

Greenguy · 2006-11-07, 04:54 PM

1 - yes, that is a dumb question

2 - right now, there's no sponsors on my banned free content list

3 - impossible to answer

4 - movies seem to be more popular these days than in the past (probably due to lower bandwidth costs & more surfers on broadband connections)

5 - no idea

6 - everyone should be using htaccess for a number of reasons

JD · 2006-11-07, 04:54 PM

Thanks for the post juggernaut.

Yes agressive, meaning work your ass off and make multiple sites a day instead of just chilling after making one and submitting it ).

Which sponsors that GG has listed, do you mean on his stats page, or is there a list of approved sponsors I cant see?

Hopefuly you mean after 3 months, 1 or 2 sales a DAY, not TOTAL, |shocking| Total would suck! I hate myself for not submitting a site a day for the last 5 years, $$$ down the toilet.

"if you are going to go with movies I would let the sponser host that stuff." Well that gos againsts some LL rules. everything sposed to be on your own domain, but no worries, will limit the movies )

Funny what you said about HT, the same thing was occuring years ago when I did this, some say the movie thing works, others no. But I will set up HT on my pic pages anyhow )

thanks again for your comments )
JD

Quote:

Originally Posted by juggernaut

I can only help you answer a couple of these and I'm sure others will follow.

1) I think you can still make a living with FS but you have to be agressive. It's like anything else, flood the market and sales should come in as long as you keep up with it.

2) I stick with the sponsers GG has listed here and if I don't get listed with their stuff then I move on and just keep submitting. Set it can forget it. I dont dwell much on why they did not accept it, maybe I should as I guess I could get BL if I keep submitting stuff they don't want but I read the rules and submitting something someone does not like cause it's over used IMO should not get you BL. Cheating and not reading the rules will get your BL.

3) Put up some examples and others will tell you whats wrong. Depending on the amount of traffic I would think in 3 months you should have seen 1 or 2. But like you said others factors here so put up some examples and let the more seasoned pros give better advice on that.

4) I'll let a more seasoned pro work this. I don't deal with vids to much.

5) I would not worry about it till you get an overage bill. There are enough companies out there that you can work with to deal with this old nightmare. I would not buy a server either, not at this time. If you set the site up right and small then you should not really have a problem with page load times, I would think you need a shitload in order to kill your BW. Besides if you are going to go with movies I would let the sponser host that stuff.

6) Yes it's still used and used very often. It's your savor in most cases for blocking crap. And as far as blocking movies I have read two opinons. One says you can do it and one says you can't. The one that said you can't made much more technical sence to me and when I tried it I could not get it to work. I honestly believe you can't protect movies with that file. I think you need software or something. But remember opinons are like assholes. If someone here does have it working I'm sure others here would love to know how.

JD · 2006-11-07, 04:57 PM

Thanks Greenie for your comments. Cheers to you also for still having a great LL and having super fast response times/linking times and also having your site open to the webmasters after all these years ). I like your answer to 1.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greenie

1 - yes, that is a dumb question

2 - right now, there's no sponsors on my banned free content list

3 - impossible to answer

4 - movies seem to be more popular these days than in the past (probably due to lower bandwidth costs & more surfers on broadband connections)

5 - no idea

6 - everyone should be using htaccess for a number of reasons

SheepGuy · 2006-11-07, 05:02 PM

What?! AVS's are dead ?!!
How come I'm still making most of my income from them?
Did I miss something?

JD · 2006-11-07, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SheepGuy

What?! AVS's are dead ?!!
How come I'm still making most of my income from them?
Did I miss something?

Yes, I should have said "died a horrible death for me"

What ones are working for you these days SG (ones that are open to public that is!)
Is there much benefit in modifying all the free sites I'm making and submitting to avs these days?
thanks
JD

SheepGuy · 2006-11-07, 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JD

Yes, I should have said "died a horrible death for me"

What ones are working for you these days SG (ones that are open to public that is!)
Is there much benefit in modifying all the free sites I'm making and submitting to avs these days?
thanks
JD

I do the best with ProAdult Quantum, but still do OK with Cyberage, and a bit with Sexkey and some of the smaller ones. What I like about AVS's is that you get recurring income on the premium sites and when you advertise on the inside pages you know that every surfer has a credit card, and has used it for porn. You can't get better quality traffic than that and I can use iframes to sell vidcams without any linklist owner refusing me for it (as long as it's inside).
Actually I make more from cams than I do most AVS's, but I don't do free sites anymore because I can't advertise them properly there.
There is still good money to be made on premium sites with an original look-feel to them. Since I've started accepting free sites on my LL I find they all look pretty much the same, but for that matter so do most paysites.
In a lot of ways I think creativity is being choked out of this biz, everybody knows what a free site should look like, everybody knows what a paysite should look like, and the results are predictable.
At least with an AVS I know I need a certain amount of content, more than with a free site, but I'm not chained to any sponsor, I can design the way I like, and as long as the surfer gets good value everyone's happy

JD · 2006-11-07, 09:58 PM

|goodidea Thanks for your input SG!

I bought my home with views on acres with avs recurring income!!!
Unfortunately, as fate would have it, I have to sell it for lack of ongoing funds, oh well, such is life

I used to follow your thinking with the qualified traffic etc. Over the years though I found it increasingly common for avs's to change rules/de-list sites, and millions more webmasters appearing on the links list and hence I saw a huge downturn in traffic and income.

Do you think its worth the time converting my free sites to avs, and will the ones you mention accept sponsor content? (I think cyberage dont). I have about 400 premium sites that arent on any domain any more, they were adult check ones from years gone past, and also about 4000 avs regulars. Dont know if its worth it with the old content submitting them or not |badidea| probably not.

I was thinking of doing some celeb avs sites and upselling to sex key site where I would have the premium one, I see others still doing this. Dont know though, always a risk with celebs, but if its just tabloid pics or whatever I spose it would be safer???

"creativity is being choked out of this biz, everybody knows what a free site should look like, everybody knows what a paysite should look like, and the results are predictable."

Yeh, well damn, free sites are pretty much exactly the same as they were in 99, cept for a couple more strict rules, not complaining though as they are nice and easy to make, and are just a pathway through to the paysite. I havent seen any originality really with porn since the reality craze which is still strong.
thanks again

JD

Quote:

Originally Posted by SheepGuy

I do the best with ProAdult Quantum, but still do OK with Cyberage, and a bit with Sexkey and some of the smaller ones. What I like about AVS's is that you get recurring income on the premium sites and when you advertise on the inside pages you know that every surfer has a credit card, and has used it for porn. You can't get better quality traffic than that and I can use iframes to sell vidcams without any linklist owner refusing me for it (as long as it's inside).
Actually I make more from cams than I do most AVS's, but I don't do free sites anymore because I can't advertise them properly there.
There is still good money to be made on premium sites with an original look-feel to them. Since I've started accepting free sites on my LL I find they all look pretty much the same, but for that matter so do most paysites.
In a lot of ways I think creativity is being choked out of this biz, everybody knows what a free site should look like, everybody knows what a paysite should look like, and the results are predictable.
At least with an AVS I know I need a certain amount of content, more than with a free site, but I'm not chained to any sponsor, I can design the way I like, and as long as the surfer gets good value everyone's happy

SheepGuy · 2006-11-08, 01:47 AM

Hey JD,
Yup, the AVS's did fuck themselves out of a lot of long term business for percieved short term gain, some of them still are. If Netverifier was to pay me for all of the rebills they still collect on sites that were once good enough to qualify as Elite I'd be a rich man. But they changed the rules, downgraded the sites, and took my rebills, justifying it by having higher standards now. Pissed me off enough that I moved them. I'm still screwed for all of the rebills, but they're screwed as well because if I'm not making money with them, they're not making money with me. Ditto for Adult Check, who screwed thousands of wm's out of millions of dollars in rebills. Luckily for me I didn't have much with AC so I got out fairly painlessly.

I'm not saying AVS is the only way to go, never put all of your eggs in one basket, but if I was sitting on 400 premium AVS sites that weren't doing anything I'd split them up between ProAdult Quantum and CyberAge Platinum. The 4000 feeder sites I'd likely have half as AVS feeders, half as free sites

And I wouldn't worry about the age of the content so much, if you were buying content in the late 90's it's so old it may as well be new and I can't see any AVS turning you down for it. I've got about $100K in content I bought back then and no AVS has rejected it becouse it's old. It will take me years to go through all of it.
The thing is, so many people who were very good at the AVS game got out of it when a couple of companies screwed them, and now the conventional wisdom is that it's dead, so newbies go right into free sites because they think that's the way it is.
I'm pretty sure that's one of the reasons my AVS income is slowly and steadily rising, and why I still don't need a day job

There's not as much competition there anymore.

Celebs I still stay away from, used to do ok with them but dropped them when the legal shit started and haven't missed them. Maybe it's different now, but I don't even know who's famous anymore

If you want to shoot the shit a bit my email is on the page my sig leads to. I think I remember you from the NV board where I used a different nick.

JD · 2006-11-08, 06:14 PM

Wow, thanks a lot for sharing Sheep Guy, yeh, it scared off tons of people I think, I just dont read about avs anymore, like it did die, and good to know people like yourself are still doing good with it!
I will have to go through all the content and sites, LOL, what a job, like yourself, I must have bought tens of thousands of bucks worth of content in the early 2000 years, 99-2002 was the most. I have all of phoenix content, which is now another name or something. I was on NV board when that dude ripped off all my sites and put them on Netverifier, do you remember that vaguely? Anyway, it was very decent of NV to give me his rebills at that time. NV never seemed to rebill as long as other avs's for some strange reason.
I've always admired Cyberage Dave, so I will use them primarilly and I have wanted to use sex key for years, just never goit round to it because theres no recurring there.
Thanks again man and have a great day!
JD

Quote:

Originally Posted by SheepGuy

Hey JD,
Yup, the AVS's did fuck themselves out of a lot of long term business for percieved short term gain, some of them still are. If Netverifier was to pay me for all of the rebills they still collect on sites that were once good enough to qualify as Elite I'd be a rich man. But they changed the rules, downgraded the sites, and took my rebills, justifying it by having higher standards now. Pissed me off enough that I moved them. I'm still screwed for all of the rebills, but they're screwed as well because if I'm not making money with them, they're not making money with me. Ditto for Adult Check, who screwed thousands of wm's out of millions of dollars in rebills. Luckily for me I didn't have much with AC so I got out fairly painlessly.

I'm not saying AVS is the only way to go, never put all of your eggs in one basket, but if I was sitting on 400 premium AVS sites that weren't doing anything I'd split them up between ProAdult Quantum and CyberAge Platinum. The 4000 feeder sites I'd likely have half as AVS feeders, half as free sites

And I wouldn't worry about the age of the content so much, if you were buying content in the late 90's it's so old it may as well be new and I can't see any AVS turning you down for it. I've got about $100K in content I bought back then and no AVS has rejected it becouse it's old. It will take me years to go through all of it.
The thing is, so many people who were very good at the AVS game got out of it when a couple of companies screwed them, and now the conventional wisdom is that it's dead, so newbies go right into free sites because they think that's the way it is.
I'm pretty sure that's one of the reasons my AVS income is slowly and steadily rising, and why I still don't need a day job

There's not as much competition there anymore.

Celebs I still stay away from, used to do ok with them but dropped them when the legal shit started and haven't missed them. Maybe it's different now, but I don't even know who's famous anymore

If you want to shoot the shit a bit my email is on the page my sig leads to. I think I remember you from the NV board where I used a different nick.

SheepGuy · 2006-11-09, 12:51 AM

I do remember that guy that stole your sites, if I'm not mistaken he was from Switzerland and claimed he bough the sites from some guy in Latvia.
If so, the same dude stole a bunch of NV Elites from me and put them up as Quantum. PA just handed them over to me and gave me his rebills as well. Hope the dude's flipping Swiss cheeseburgers now |badidea|

JD · 2006-11-09, 11:01 PM

Hmmm, Eric was his name, he told everyone on all the boards he was a big big player etc. He came down with a large crunch after I exposed the bastard, he copied the sites exactly! In the end he was some friggin kid with a cell fone living with him mum, LMAO. The way he spoke such great crap though, he should get a job in sales or something easy!
I hope people dont still do that these days. I am morally high with copying, I wont copy, or if I copy a little bit I will change it all completely. So I guess it brought home some stuff to me because I didnt like it done to me (not that I copied stuff, but I would copy the odd add layout etc. ) ANd I cringe when I post a url, like if its not listed or something, just in case people copy, but I know theres lots of nice people around so maybe it doesnt happen much these days (copying peoples stuff)
I'm not sure where he was from, he was fluent english on the icq though. It was very nice of Netverifier to do what they did, those were the days, just an extra few grand a month, didnt even notice it, not like these days LOL. Gonna have to chase up your email SG, do u have icq?
regards
JD

Quote:

Originally Posted by SheepGuy

I do remember that guy that stole your sites, if I'm not mistaken he was from Switzerland and claimed he bough the sites from some guy in Latvia.
If so, the same dude stole a bunch of NV Elites from me and put them up as Quantum. PA just handed them over to me and gave me his rebills as well. Hope the dude's flipping Swiss cheeseburgers now |badidea|

Mr Exotic · 2006-11-10, 01:01 AM

JD sounds like you have had your share of hard times man. I feel for ya as I have been there myself. I didnt get fucked on AVS sites since I never did them, but I started off making big money pretty much right off the get go back in very late 99/very early 2000. I was making all my money off CJ (circle jerk) sites, which pretty much ceased to exist around the end of 2001. Man I was right out of high school making money hand over fist not really even having a clue as to how to actually make a sale. Just throw up a java alert, an exit console, and throw up a few little things on the page that made 3-4k/month for pocket change, haha, pocket change back then. My dad has a very good job building transmissions at Chrysler and I remember thinking I was big shit because I made more than him just off my exit console sponsor, and I made 3-4 times more than that on my java alert thingie, I had more money than I knew what to do with. I was young and dumb (right out of high school) and thought hell I am gonna be doing this exact same thing the rest of my life. Then it just so happened that as the bottom fell out of the CJ site scene I ended up with some pretty serious health problems and I didnt have insurance. So by the time I was better I had spent all my money on doctors, hospitals, and meds. And didnt have any money to get anything new started. It took me quite a while, but with alot of help from family, and some help from some online friends to point me in the right direction I was able to get back on my feet and at least make a living again online. I had some bad times in between though, I worked for a few people online, had a couple of shit jobs which included a paper route, and GASP working at Walmart, hahaha. I aint even came close to making what I used to make, hell I would give my left nut to make a month now what I used to make in a week back then. But I keep on keeping on, made some ok money off galleries for a few years, and that started drying up, so I started the free site stuff about 10 months ago and like what I am seeing so far, and from what I have been able to gather from researching and talking with other people another 2 years of this and I oughta be going somewhere, haha.
Hang in there man and keep on keeping on until you find something that works.

JD · 2006-11-13, 07:54 PM

Me Exotic

Hey man, yeh, I heard about those damn CJ sites too, looked into them for a week or so and heard from people what they were making on them, didnt go through fully though, so lost out there!!

Know what you mean with the money and the "olds", used to love making more than my father in law, he works at a factory and pulls a grand a week (aust money) and I used to just kill him with what I used to make. NOW I would be content with making what he does. Fuck its hard getting your feet again, I dont care what anyone says, its still really hard to get yourself doing something that makes money, so many more sponsors these days probably makes it harder in a way as its too confusing, which one to pick, as basically they all kick ass nearly, wilth the latest sites, best promos and shit.

Sorry to hear about your health problems, we have great free health services here in Australia and you dont need private health cover here, so lucky in that respect.

So 10 months ago yeh? Do you do lots of different sponsors? Lots of mirror sites with different link lists? doing 5 or more sales a day now I guess you would be after 10 months?

Know what you mean with the galleries, still a lot saying they make good income with them, its a lot harder imo to make money with gals as theres so much stuff out there. I guess what I have learnt now is consistency is key, gotta keep on going. Still, I'm the type of person that gets sick of doing the same stuff over and over, so I'm just having a hard time getting up and doing the same stuff, but at the same time, I'm always thinking, should I switch sponsors, change niches, and what about all these damn LL that I arent even submitting to, you cant do everything!!! Aghhhhhh, its painful but I have to try to move through the pain barrier, I just want 10 sales a day, thats my ambition for after a year of doing free sites, if I could get it to say 5 sales a day by 6 month mark it will give me the motivation I need to keep at it.

I get tired thinking about it, lol, Im a lazy bastard at the best of times too, so it will be a challenge...................

back to it!

Mr Exotic · 2006-11-14, 12:49 AM

As far as submitting, mirrors, and linklists go is probably where I have made a big mistake. Funny that you ask that question because today I just compiled a new submit list that is 54 link lists long, up until now I have only been submitting to 12-15 of the biggest link lists, I do get basically every site listed everywhere I submit, but I know I have left a ton of traffic and sales out by going that route. Another thing that I have discovered and have been advised on by a good friend who really knows his SE stuff is that SE traffic for a new domain can take a very very long time to get, as I am now finding out. And that SE traffic is a obviously a pretty big thing, thats why this is something that you have to really keep after for the long haul, not only do you get more SE traffic as you keep building and building but the linklist traffic builds up obviously as well especially at link lists like Green Guy's where the sites get rotated and not listed in order that they were submitted.

As far as the money and sales go, haha, thats definitely a tricky question. That is another place I know I have made a mistake, a mistake that I think I have just very recently fixed, at least for the future when I pick new sites to promote. I have built and submitted tons of free sites for paysites that just flat out laid a huge pile of shit conversion wise and retention wise on revshare. There are days that I made 5 sales off my free sites, but not as many as I would like quite honestly, had I not picked so many paysites that did so shitty I do think there is a very good chance that I would be at 5 sales a day for an average, but there is no way to really tell, other than to keep building and going on from what I have learned. I really think now that if I had been submitting to more link lists and picked better sites I could be making more than double what I am making now, if not more than that. Now that its getting to be close to a year that I have been doing this I definitely have learned a ton and see that I have made a lot of mistakes along the way, only thing I can do is continue and not make the same mistakes again.

One bad thing that goes along with free sites is that it is such a long term thing (but this ultimately is the best thing about it, haha go figure) and it really takes a long time to see how something is gonna do for you since it takes so long to build up enough traffic to really gauge something on. But really I think my learning curve goes along with what many webmasters have told me or me reading what they have said. The first year is the learning year, the second year is the year where you have corrected your mistakes and you oughta really be getting somewhere by the end of your second year, and in the 3rd year you oughta be rolling in the dough, hahaha (at least that is my goal). Of course rolling in the dough for me may not even pay another person's living expenses. But what you said about 10 sales a day, that is pretty much the area I would like to be in as well as thats gonna end up being over 100 grand a year. Another thing to keep in mind is that its just not about just the actual free sites, but its making those free sites all work together as one and to form one big empire for yourself (someone could probably write a book on that, haha).

When I first started doing free sites I had made a promise to myself to stick with a three year plan and no matter what not to give up on it because I have heard so many times that it is such a long term thing and the biggest mistake people make to to give up on them before they even give them a chance. So no matter what I am gonna be here doing free sites until Jan 20th of 2008 and hopefully by then it will have all been worth it and I will have one hell of an adult empire built up for myself and have an excellent long term and steady income for me and my family.

Geez, haha just realized this is turning into a long as hell post, I'll shut up now.

JD · 2006-11-14, 06:33 AM

Hey no need to shut up, you make great sense and write well!!

You know I was making free sites in 98-99? What a dumbass for not continuing on, at least 1 site a day, or hell, 1 a week, would have had me around 2,500 or free sites all with long going SE traffic, LOL. Oh well, I thought I was onto a good thing and kept doing that, thats what we do I spose, keep onto a good thing. I should have learnt something after all this time, well I spose I learn a few things, but I think to myself I havent really learned anything. ALthough I know how to make clean ok sites, I find it hard to write all the damn selling text for todays sites, what are we sposed to tell the surfer, I let the banners speak, and just put a few lines in for the SE's and so the surfers can see the text link in case the banners dont load.

I changed my recips today to 3 x 16 LL tables, so 48 sites at the moment. But I really need 100 or so. I find it so much work just to do those ones. I use form filling sw of course, but doing the mirrors and stuff, its pretty mind numbing, I applaud the free site webmasters, its not easy work I dont think anyway. But its better than working for some other bloke ) so I have to stamp that on my forehead more.

Sponsors, UGHHH, your reality is my nightmare then! I dont want that to happen, so this much I have learned, I check out the sites members area by hand and see whats there to keep the surfer, and I check out stats like gg AND hoes etc and see what sponsors do best, and its pretty sad news there these days, lol, lots of 1:1500 conversions, that sucks, but sign of the times maybe, todays LL conversions are yesterdays gallery conversions! Thans for the heads up, I am gonna have to split these sites up with more sponsors, maybe 10 and alternate submissions, it till take longer to get signups to them but at least it will be more diverse.

I dont like the 3 year thing man, I want to get there in 1 year!!! Someone was saying on here they were getting a sale per day after a month subbing! That would be nice. Everything varies I spose. Oh well, another day another site tomorrow. ANd what about multiple submissions, I notice theres only a handful of LL that state just 1 site per day, so there is room to submit 3 or so sites a day to 100 link lists maybe, that would be large workload but faster results. ANyway, making me tired thinking about it!!

JD

Mr Exotic · 2006-11-14, 02:40 PM

Man I think we can relate on alot of things. Funny thing is how I got my very first start was with a babe/bikini site that was somewhat of a linklist, I didnt start my first site off thinking oh boy I am gonna put up a shitload of blind links and jerk traffic around to make some money, haha. I really had a good build up of bookmarkers and had a pretty big group of sites that was trading links with me, it really was kind of a link list pretty much. I had a top refferer table that I updated once a week, had a list of new sites on the main page that had been submitted to me thru out the week, and had a links page for all the other sites that didnt make the top refferer list. It wasnt of sites that were free sites as we know them now, but still pretty much the same thing. I often wonder how things would have gone if I had got turned onto the real link lists and free sites instead of the evil CJ sites. I was young and dumb and took my 10-12k/day of bookmarker/quality link trade traffic and turned that into over 100k/day of CJ traffic to make some quick money. Hell if I had a clue as to how to sale a site back then instead of just plastering up a couple banners I would have been making decent money off my little quality site, and who knows where that could have lead to.

My free sites probably have more text on them than just about anyone, hoping that down the road that will help me out alot with SE traffic, along with trying to sale the site. I kind of look at my free sites as blog posts in some kind of way, haha. I try to write a good size paragraph on each page of the site, sometimes I about go crazy trying to think of new things to say, and often I am saying pretty much the same thing but worded in a different way trying to work the different keywords in for that particular site.

You are definitely on to something by going by sites that post their sponsor stats. That is one of the first things I use when checking out new paysites to promote now and so far so good. When I first started I just went by what looked good and if I thought that program was good either by word of mouth or by my past experiences with them, but as I soon found out even some of the best programs out there have sites that will convert worse than 1:3000. Then I took a good look at Greenies latest stats update and sure enough the sites that sucked donkey dick for me, sucked ass as well for him. And the sites that I was happy with were doing good for him too.

As far as getting 1 sale a day just after submitting for 3 weeks, I suppose its possible if everything went perfect, but not likely. I am not sure if it was this thread or another but I think you said something about getting a sale every 3 days after a month and that is pretty much where I was my first month. The second month was about twice as good, and the third month I was pretty close to a sale a day maybe a bit better. I was somewhat lucky because 3 of 4 sites I first started off with ended up doing pretty good, and even the 4th wasnt too awfully bad. But then is where I made my mistakes, the next string of sites I started promoting sucked and things really leveled off for a while, and the growth slowed down quite a bit. But now that I am picking better sites to promote I am seeing pretty good conversions so hopefully I can get back to growing quickly again.

Today was the first day I submitted to 54 (18x3) link lists after only doing around 12-15 since I started, my first experience making mirrors, talk about a pain in the ass, haha. Not to mention all these crazy little link lists and figuring out all their different forms for the first time. What pissed me off the most was these god damn word of the day things. One site I know I typed it right and time after time it said I was wrong, so fuck it that site is losing my submits, haha. My mind is pretty numb after the whole ordeal.

About submitting more than 1 site a day to the lists that allow it, ya I suppose you could, but from what I usually notice is that 9 times out of 10 the sites that allow multiple submissions are new ones that are just trying to fill out their categories and alot of times they end up going to only 1 submit a day. I know for me there just is not enough time to try and do that and I honestly dont think my mind could take it, haha. My guess is that in the end it probably wouldnt be worth the extra effort since to do it right you would need to put just as much effort into each of those extra sites as you do for the sites that get submitted to the big boys only to be lucky to have each site get 1/20th of the traffic (thats just guess on the traffic) per site.

JD · 2006-11-14, 10:27 PM

Hey man )

Do you use roboform, god made roboform I think, if I could work out ways to make things as streamlined as that program is I would be a very happy man. With you 54 recips, what I do is just use the anchor link text thta each site wants, so I dont have all these stupid looking buttons and weird links everywhere, I just find out what anchor text they want and use that in my custom table. I imagine you also have the tables lined up in your dreamweaver or whatever so you just click on each one to submit it? I thought about using a submitting program, not to auto submit, but to bring up all the submit urls and fill the forms so I could look through them. I should spend more time working on that, as that would probably cut some more time down as well. Wish the sites would make themselves some times! Well back to it I spose, amazing how damn fast the days fly past. No point in worrying about what could have happened in the past, it kills me to think about it, LOL.. At least these great link lists are still around today, and they seem to be reallly cool and nice owners really. I understand the process etc. and whats involved, sometimes its hard to remember what to do next though. Keeping motivated, especially when I got two kids I always want to go play with sucks, but I have to keep the work going to try to get back to some sort of a living income again, what hard work, need to fast forward 6 months or a year, LOL.
cya

JD

Mr Exotic · 2006-11-15, 01:16 PM

Yep I use robo form and I use custom recips as well just like the way you said.

I have two little ones too, haha. My daughter is 3 and my son turns 2 on Saturday. I have my hands pretty full with the home life, my wife works a "real world job" and while she's at work the kids are either at my mom and dad's or at her mom's so I can get some work done. When the wife and kids get home I try as hard as possible not to work, sometimes after everyone goes to bed I will get some work done, but I try to avoid that as often as possible because then I find myself up until 4 in the morning and not waking up until late and then the wife and kids get home before I have a chance to get much done and it throws my whole schedule off.

JD · 2006-11-15, 06:04 PM

seems we have mucho in common lol, talk about schedules being messed up, story of my life, its hard with the kids as I want to spend as much time as possible with them, and I dont regret playing with them in their younger years as they are only young once, you know, but have to at least try to produce some income as well, I should send the wife out to work, I will if I dont make money, LOL
hit me up some time on the ole icq
5 2 1 1 0 2 8 3
cheers!

Jollyperv · 2006-11-17, 01:41 AM

This is a really good thread

2006-11-06, 08:36 PM	#1
JD Lord help me, I'm just not that bright Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 107	Oldschool reinvented noob got a few questions! Hi all, I like this board, which brings me to post here I was a webmaster back in 99, so stuffed around with free sites a bit and then into avs for years and it died a horrible death (avs), and so did my bank account, oh well \|confused\| Then I did galleries for a while (yukk), hated them, lots of work for little result imho. So three weeks ago I've gone back to my free site stuff, where I really started, back when there was only 6 or so big sponsors around . Now I see theres zillions and zillions of them. My questions based on the new breed of free site builders follows: 1. Can you still make a living creating free sites these days? Probably a dumb ass question considering all the people on here that make them, unless you all do it part time ) 2.Are there any sponsors that basically you just won't get listed with (even if you have 2 day old content from them)? For example, I've been using deecash and I like them, dont seem to have a problem with getting listed, BUT if I used nasty dollars with new content would I still get listed on the major sites? I guess I'm looking for a list of a few sponsors that just wont be accepted at the larger link lists, if thats the case. I imagine its a bit different than the gallery people though, there they are very strict with you having hte same sponsors they have on their sites. 3. I am building one or two free sites each day and submitting them to 20 or so link lists. I know its a difficult question to answer, but how long (ball park figure) is it taking you guys to see lets say a sale a day after submitting every day? I know thats a small ammount of income but I realise things take a long time, like Xallow (sp?), after 3 weeks of solid work, I havent seen much in sales or traffic, but I do realise, like the tgp game(only way its like it), it does take time to get the traffic coming in and getting listed (at ll's and se's). So do you think after 3 months of submitting daily I might see a couple sales a day from the work? (I know its a tough question, depends of multiple factores) 4. Vids or pics these days? I've tried some free movie sites, and pic sites as well, and for some reason, I'm not seeing as much traffic to the movie sites. What are you experienced builders finding? Pics or movies, or a mixture of the two (not on same site, thats a no no I hear? 5. Whats bandwidth like these days making and submitting 1 or 2 sites a day to all the large sites? Is it pretty small? I am used to large BW on the galleries in the past, just wondering if a 10mb server is required in the long run of free site building if you are using movies a lot? 6. Htaccess - do u guys still use it? Do u use something to protect movies as well? Thanks guys, sorry for all the questions, I've been reading lots on here, and found some good posts, now its just a matter of getting past the pain barrier of building until I can see some results for the hard work! I know there wont be the bullshit that you get at gfy with everyone saying they are making millions at this stuff ) JD (justin)

2006-11-06, 08:57 PM	#2
Xallow Hello, is this President Clinton? Good! I figured if anyone knew where to get some tang it would be you Join Date: May 2006 Location: Denmark Posts: 447	Not much I can tell You JD, since I am still pretty new myself, but I can tell You that submitting to 20 LL's is probably not enough... I submit each FS to up to 80 LL's and I know there are some here that are well over 100 LL's. __________________ Porn Safe Submit Free Sites Porn Party Porn Submit Free Sites

2006-11-07, 04:54 PM	#5
Greenguy The Original Greenguy (Est'd 1996) & AVN HOF Member - I Crop Pics For Thumbs In My Sleep Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Blasdell, NY (shithole suburb south of Buffalo) Posts: 41,811	1 - yes, that is a dumb question 2 - right now, there's no sponsors on my banned free content list 3 - impossible to answer 4 - movies seem to be more popular these days than in the past (probably due to lower bandwidth costs & more surfers on broadband connections) 5 - no idea 6 - everyone should be using htaccess for a number of reasons __________________ Promote POV Porn Cash By Building & Submitting Galleries to the Porn Luv Network

2006-11-07, 05:02 PM	#8
SheepGuy It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Canada Posts: 2,527	What?! AVS's are dead ?!! How come I'm still making most of my income from them? Did I miss something? __________________ If the Environment was a bank, they would have saved it by now.

2006-11-08, 01:47 AM	#12
SheepGuy It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Canada Posts: 2,527	Hey JD, Yup, the AVS's did fuck themselves out of a lot of long term business for percieved short term gain, some of them still are. If Netverifier was to pay me for all of the rebills they still collect on sites that were once good enough to qualify as Elite I'd be a rich man. But they changed the rules, downgraded the sites, and took my rebills, justifying it by having higher standards now. Pissed me off enough that I moved them. I'm still screwed for all of the rebills, but they're screwed as well because if I'm not making money with them, they're not making money with me. Ditto for Adult Check, who screwed thousands of wm's out of millions of dollars in rebills. Luckily for me I didn't have much with AC so I got out fairly painlessly. I'm not saying AVS is the only way to go, never put all of your eggs in one basket, but if I was sitting on 400 premium AVS sites that weren't doing anything I'd split them up between ProAdult Quantum and CyberAge Platinum. The 4000 feeder sites I'd likely have half as AVS feeders, half as free sites And I wouldn't worry about the age of the content so much, if you were buying content in the late 90's it's so old it may as well be new and I can't see any AVS turning you down for it. I've got about $100K in content I bought back then and no AVS has rejected it becouse it's old. It will take me years to go through all of it. The thing is, so many people who were very good at the AVS game got out of it when a couple of companies screwed them, and now the conventional wisdom is that it's dead, so newbies go right into free sites because they think that's the way it is. I'm pretty sure that's one of the reasons my AVS income is slowly and steadily rising, and why I still don't need a day job There's not as much competition there anymore. Celebs I still stay away from, used to do ok with them but dropped them when the legal shit started and haven't missed them. Maybe it's different now, but I don't even know who's famous anymore If you want to shoot the shit a bit my email is on the page my sig leads to. I think I remember you from the NV board where I used a different nick. __________________ If the Environment was a bank, they would have saved it by now.

2006-11-09, 12:51 AM	#14
SheepGuy It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Canada Posts: 2,527	I do remember that guy that stole your sites, if I'm not mistaken he was from Switzerland and claimed he bough the sites from some guy in Latvia. If so, the same dude stole a bunch of NV Elites from me and put them up as Quantum. PA just handed them over to me and gave me his rebills as well. Hope the dude's flipping Swiss cheeseburgers now \|badidea\| __________________ If the Environment was a bank, they would have saved it by now.

2006-11-10, 01:01 AM	#16
Mr Exotic rifuckingdiculous Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Cornfield in Indiana Posts: 532	JD sounds like you have had your share of hard times man. I feel for ya as I have been there myself. I didnt get fucked on AVS sites since I never did them, but I started off making big money pretty much right off the get go back in very late 99/very early 2000. I was making all my money off CJ (circle jerk) sites, which pretty much ceased to exist around the end of 2001. Man I was right out of high school making money hand over fist not really even having a clue as to how to actually make a sale. Just throw up a java alert, an exit console, and throw up a few little things on the page that made 3-4k/month for pocket change, haha, pocket change back then. My dad has a very good job building transmissions at Chrysler and I remember thinking I was big shit because I made more than him just off my exit console sponsor, and I made 3-4 times more than that on my java alert thingie, I had more money than I knew what to do with. I was young and dumb (right out of high school) and thought hell I am gonna be doing this exact same thing the rest of my life. Then it just so happened that as the bottom fell out of the CJ site scene I ended up with some pretty serious health problems and I didnt have insurance. So by the time I was better I had spent all my money on doctors, hospitals, and meds. And didnt have any money to get anything new started. It took me quite a while, but with alot of help from family, and some help from some online friends to point me in the right direction I was able to get back on my feet and at least make a living again online. I had some bad times in between though, I worked for a few people online, had a couple of shit jobs which included a paper route, and GASP working at Walmart, hahaha. I aint even came close to making what I used to make, hell I would give my left nut to make a month now what I used to make in a week back then. But I keep on keeping on, made some ok money off galleries for a few years, and that started drying up, so I started the free site stuff about 10 months ago and like what I am seeing so far, and from what I have been able to gather from researching and talking with other people another 2 years of this and I oughta be going somewhere, haha. Hang in there man and keep on keeping on until you find something that works. __________________ Submit Free Sites/Galleries

2006-11-13, 07:54 PM	#17
JD Lord help me, I'm just not that bright Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 107	Me Exotic Hey man, yeh, I heard about those damn CJ sites too, looked into them for a week or so and heard from people what they were making on them, didnt go through fully though, so lost out there!! Know what you mean with the money and the "olds", used to love making more than my father in law, he works at a factory and pulls a grand a week (aust money) and I used to just kill him with what I used to make. NOW I would be content with making what he does. Fuck its hard getting your feet again, I dont care what anyone says, its still really hard to get yourself doing something that makes money, so many more sponsors these days probably makes it harder in a way as its too confusing, which one to pick, as basically they all kick ass nearly, wilth the latest sites, best promos and shit. Sorry to hear about your health problems, we have great free health services here in Australia and you dont need private health cover here, so lucky in that respect. So 10 months ago yeh? Do you do lots of different sponsors? Lots of mirror sites with different link lists? doing 5 or more sales a day now I guess you would be after 10 months? Know what you mean with the galleries, still a lot saying they make good income with them, its a lot harder imo to make money with gals as theres so much stuff out there. I guess what I have learnt now is consistency is key, gotta keep on going. Still, I'm the type of person that gets sick of doing the same stuff over and over, so I'm just having a hard time getting up and doing the same stuff, but at the same time, I'm always thinking, should I switch sponsors, change niches, and what about all these damn LL that I arent even submitting to, you cant do everything!!! Aghhhhhh, its painful but I have to try to move through the pain barrier, I just want 10 sales a day, thats my ambition for after a year of doing free sites, if I could get it to say 5 sales a day by 6 month mark it will give me the motivation I need to keep at it. I get tired thinking about it, lol, Im a lazy bastard at the best of times too, so it will be a challenge................... back to it!

2006-11-14, 12:49 AM	#18
Mr Exotic rifuckingdiculous Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Cornfield in Indiana Posts: 532	As far as submitting, mirrors, and linklists go is probably where I have made a big mistake. Funny that you ask that question because today I just compiled a new submit list that is 54 link lists long, up until now I have only been submitting to 12-15 of the biggest link lists, I do get basically every site listed everywhere I submit, but I know I have left a ton of traffic and sales out by going that route. Another thing that I have discovered and have been advised on by a good friend who really knows his SE stuff is that SE traffic for a new domain can take a very very long time to get, as I am now finding out. And that SE traffic is a obviously a pretty big thing, thats why this is something that you have to really keep after for the long haul, not only do you get more SE traffic as you keep building and building but the linklist traffic builds up obviously as well especially at link lists like Green Guy's where the sites get rotated and not listed in order that they were submitted. As far as the money and sales go, haha, thats definitely a tricky question. That is another place I know I have made a mistake, a mistake that I think I have just very recently fixed, at least for the future when I pick new sites to promote. I have built and submitted tons of free sites for paysites that just flat out laid a huge pile of shit conversion wise and retention wise on revshare. There are days that I made 5 sales off my free sites, but not as many as I would like quite honestly, had I not picked so many paysites that did so shitty I do think there is a very good chance that I would be at 5 sales a day for an average, but there is no way to really tell, other than to keep building and going on from what I have learned. I really think now that if I had been submitting to more link lists and picked better sites I could be making more than double what I am making now, if not more than that. Now that its getting to be close to a year that I have been doing this I definitely have learned a ton and see that I have made a lot of mistakes along the way, only thing I can do is continue and not make the same mistakes again. One bad thing that goes along with free sites is that it is such a long term thing (but this ultimately is the best thing about it, haha go figure) and it really takes a long time to see how something is gonna do for you since it takes so long to build up enough traffic to really gauge something on. But really I think my learning curve goes along with what many webmasters have told me or me reading what they have said. The first year is the learning year, the second year is the year where you have corrected your mistakes and you oughta really be getting somewhere by the end of your second year, and in the 3rd year you oughta be rolling in the dough, hahaha (at least that is my goal). Of course rolling in the dough for me may not even pay another person's living expenses. But what you said about 10 sales a day, that is pretty much the area I would like to be in as well as thats gonna end up being over 100 grand a year. Another thing to keep in mind is that its just not about just the actual free sites, but its making those free sites all work together as one and to form one big empire for yourself (someone could probably write a book on that, haha). When I first started doing free sites I had made a promise to myself to stick with a three year plan and no matter what not to give up on it because I have heard so many times that it is such a long term thing and the biggest mistake people make to to give up on them before they even give them a chance. So no matter what I am gonna be here doing free sites until Jan 20th of 2008 and hopefully by then it will have all been worth it and I will have one hell of an adult empire built up for myself and have an excellent long term and steady income for me and my family. Geez, haha just realized this is turning into a long as hell post, I'll shut up now. __________________ Submit Free Sites/Galleries

2006-11-14, 06:33 AM	#19
JD Lord help me, I'm just not that bright Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 107	Hey no need to shut up, you make great sense and write well!! You know I was making free sites in 98-99? What a dumbass for not continuing on, at least 1 site a day, or hell, 1 a week, would have had me around 2,500 or free sites all with long going SE traffic, LOL. Oh well, I thought I was onto a good thing and kept doing that, thats what we do I spose, keep onto a good thing. I should have learnt something after all this time, well I spose I learn a few things, but I think to myself I havent really learned anything. ALthough I know how to make clean ok sites, I find it hard to write all the damn selling text for todays sites, what are we sposed to tell the surfer, I let the banners speak, and just put a few lines in for the SE's and so the surfers can see the text link in case the banners dont load. I changed my recips today to 3 x 16 LL tables, so 48 sites at the moment. But I really need 100 or so. I find it so much work just to do those ones. I use form filling sw of course, but doing the mirrors and stuff, its pretty mind numbing, I applaud the free site webmasters, its not easy work I dont think anyway. But its better than working for some other bloke ) so I have to stamp that on my forehead more. Sponsors, UGHHH, your reality is my nightmare then! I dont want that to happen, so this much I have learned, I check out the sites members area by hand and see whats there to keep the surfer, and I check out stats like gg AND hoes etc and see what sponsors do best, and its pretty sad news there these days, lol, lots of 1:1500 conversions, that sucks, but sign of the times maybe, todays LL conversions are yesterdays gallery conversions! Thans for the heads up, I am gonna have to split these sites up with more sponsors, maybe 10 and alternate submissions, it till take longer to get signups to them but at least it will be more diverse. I dont like the 3 year thing man, I want to get there in 1 year!!! Someone was saying on here they were getting a sale per day after a month subbing! That would be nice. Everything varies I spose. Oh well, another day another site tomorrow. ANd what about multiple submissions, I notice theres only a handful of LL that state just 1 site per day, so there is room to submit 3 or so sites a day to 100 link lists maybe, that would be large workload but faster results. ANyway, making me tired thinking about it!! JD

2006-11-14, 02:40 PM	#20
Mr Exotic rifuckingdiculous Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Cornfield in Indiana Posts: 532	Man I think we can relate on alot of things. Funny thing is how I got my very first start was with a babe/bikini site that was somewhat of a linklist, I didnt start my first site off thinking oh boy I am gonna put up a shitload of blind links and jerk traffic around to make some money, haha. I really had a good build up of bookmarkers and had a pretty big group of sites that was trading links with me, it really was kind of a link list pretty much. I had a top refferer table that I updated once a week, had a list of new sites on the main page that had been submitted to me thru out the week, and had a links page for all the other sites that didnt make the top refferer list. It wasnt of sites that were free sites as we know them now, but still pretty much the same thing. I often wonder how things would have gone if I had got turned onto the real link lists and free sites instead of the evil CJ sites. I was young and dumb and took my 10-12k/day of bookmarker/quality link trade traffic and turned that into over 100k/day of CJ traffic to make some quick money. Hell if I had a clue as to how to sale a site back then instead of just plastering up a couple banners I would have been making decent money off my little quality site, and who knows where that could have lead to. My free sites probably have more text on them than just about anyone, hoping that down the road that will help me out alot with SE traffic, along with trying to sale the site. I kind of look at my free sites as blog posts in some kind of way, haha. I try to write a good size paragraph on each page of the site, sometimes I about go crazy trying to think of new things to say, and often I am saying pretty much the same thing but worded in a different way trying to work the different keywords in for that particular site. You are definitely on to something by going by sites that post their sponsor stats. That is one of the first things I use when checking out new paysites to promote now and so far so good. When I first started I just went by what looked good and if I thought that program was good either by word of mouth or by my past experiences with them, but as I soon found out even some of the best programs out there have sites that will convert worse than 1:3000. Then I took a good look at Greenies latest stats update and sure enough the sites that sucked donkey dick for me, sucked ass as well for him. And the sites that I was happy with were doing good for him too. As far as getting 1 sale a day just after submitting for 3 weeks, I suppose its possible if everything went perfect, but not likely. I am not sure if it was this thread or another but I think you said something about getting a sale every 3 days after a month and that is pretty much where I was my first month. The second month was about twice as good, and the third month I was pretty close to a sale a day maybe a bit better. I was somewhat lucky because 3 of 4 sites I first started off with ended up doing pretty good, and even the 4th wasnt too awfully bad. But then is where I made my mistakes, the next string of sites I started promoting sucked and things really leveled off for a while, and the growth slowed down quite a bit. But now that I am picking better sites to promote I am seeing pretty good conversions so hopefully I can get back to growing quickly again. Today was the first day I submitted to 54 (18x3) link lists after only doing around 12-15 since I started, my first experience making mirrors, talk about a pain in the ass, haha. Not to mention all these crazy little link lists and figuring out all their different forms for the first time. What pissed me off the most was these god damn word of the day things. One site I know I typed it right and time after time it said I was wrong, so fuck it that site is losing my submits, haha. My mind is pretty numb after the whole ordeal. About submitting more than 1 site a day to the lists that allow it, ya I suppose you could, but from what I usually notice is that 9 times out of 10 the sites that allow multiple submissions are new ones that are just trying to fill out their categories and alot of times they end up going to only 1 submit a day. I know for me there just is not enough time to try and do that and I honestly dont think my mind could take it, haha. My guess is that in the end it probably wouldnt be worth the extra effort since to do it right you would need to put just as much effort into each of those extra sites as you do for the sites that get submitted to the big boys only to be lucky to have each site get 1/20th of the traffic (thats just guess on the traffic) per site. __________________ Submit Free Sites/Galleries Last edited by Mr Exotic; 2006-11-14 at 02:44 PM..

2006-11-14, 10:27 PM	#21
JD Lord help me, I'm just not that bright Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 107	Hey man ) Do you use roboform, god made roboform I think, if I could work out ways to make things as streamlined as that program is I would be a very happy man. With you 54 recips, what I do is just use the anchor link text thta each site wants, so I dont have all these stupid looking buttons and weird links everywhere, I just find out what anchor text they want and use that in my custom table. I imagine you also have the tables lined up in your dreamweaver or whatever so you just click on each one to submit it? I thought about using a submitting program, not to auto submit, but to bring up all the submit urls and fill the forms so I could look through them. I should spend more time working on that, as that would probably cut some more time down as well. Wish the sites would make themselves some times! Well back to it I spose, amazing how damn fast the days fly past. No point in worrying about what could have happened in the past, it kills me to think about it, LOL.. At least these great link lists are still around today, and they seem to be reallly cool and nice owners really. I understand the process etc. and whats involved, sometimes its hard to remember what to do next though. Keeping motivated, especially when I got two kids I always want to go play with sucks, but I have to keep the work going to try to get back to some sort of a living income again, what hard work, need to fast forward 6 months or a year, LOL. cya JD

2006-11-15, 01:16 PM	#22
Mr Exotic rifuckingdiculous Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Cornfield in Indiana Posts: 532	Yep I use robo form and I use custom recips as well just like the way you said. I have two little ones too, haha. My daughter is 3 and my son turns 2 on Saturday. I have my hands pretty full with the home life, my wife works a "real world job" and while she's at work the kids are either at my mom and dad's or at her mom's so I can get some work done. When the wife and kids get home I try as hard as possible not to work, sometimes after everyone goes to bed I will get some work done, but I try to avoid that as often as possible because then I find myself up until 4 in the morning and not waking up until late and then the wife and kids get home before I have a chance to get much done and it throws my whole schedule off. __________________ Submit Free Sites/Galleries

2006-11-15, 06:04 PM	#23
JD Lord help me, I'm just not that bright Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 107	seems we have mucho in common lol, talk about schedules being messed up, story of my life, its hard with the kids as I want to spend as much time as possible with them, and I dont regret playing with them in their younger years as they are only young once, you know, but have to at least try to produce some income as well, I should send the wife out to work, I will if I dont make money, LOL hit me up some time on the ole icq 5 2 1 1 0 2 8 3 cheers!

2006-11-17, 01:41 AM	#24
Jollyperv Heh Heh Heh! Lisa! Vampires are make believe, just like elves and gremlins and eskimos! Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 71	This is a really good thread