What exactly is and AVS site?

[SheepGuy]

Originally Posted by Fonz

Another small thing is when someone has bought a membership on another AVS site that's uses the same AVS as your sites that surfer can also enter any site in the AVS's network including your site. So not every surfer that surfs your member area and uses your bandwith is making you money. Ofcourse there's always the X-sales

Fonz is right, the X sales make it worthwhile though, for a couple of reasons.
1) Everyone who gets in for free has a cc.
2) Everyone who gets in for free has bought porn online for free in the past.
You just can't get more qualified traffic than that
About getting traffic I get almost all of mine from my hub which is full of my sites from damn near every AVS going. I'm sure I sell to a lot of people who have an AVS membership with one company, but just can't get into the site they really want because it's with a different company

[jayeff]

Originally Posted by SheepGuy

Fonz is right, the X sales make it worthwhile

Well until about 2000, yes. You could easily double your ID sales income with upsells. But since then, total traffic to AVS programs has dropped dramatically and the number of sites has increased many times over. The rules on upsells have got tougher while the program operators have become more aggressive with their own promos.

I haven't put up an AVS site in close to 5 years because by then my upsell income was already down to 10% of my ID sales.

People really should distinguish between free-ID sites like SexKey, old-school AVS like Cyberage, and video-only AEN. Despite superficial similarities, they are quite different business models and the same traffic, marketing, etc doesn't work for all three groups.

On the subject of upsells, for example (although some may disagree), I always regarded upsells on the free-ID sites as pretty much a bonus and looked to ID's for the bulk of my income from them. On the old-school AVS, as already noted, once upsells were half my income, while on the new AEN's, there are no upsells at all.

The AEN's on the other hand all have built-in features allowing you to have your own affiliates and retention is in the same ball-park as the old-school AVS. Retention is not - unless the game has changed - a factor with the free-ID programs, because you get a one-time payment.

I am so out of date as regards the free-ID programs, I cannot usefully comment on them. Deluxe Pass, Jans Webring and Porn Access I can recommend to anyone who has design skills or access to them, because that (and a healthy dose of traffic) is the key to success with the video AEN's and they can work very well.

Old-school AVS I have a hard time being objective about. I was lucky and only lost small change over the disgusting behavior of Adult Check and the webmasters who stayed with them. But exactly when you would have expected Cyberage and NetVerifier to notch it up a bit to take advantage of AC's scam, they behaved as if, with the competition gone, they didn't need to bother any more. Ever since they have just cruised along on their declining traffic, letting the script kiddies keep churning out more sites every day. I know exactly how people who are already established with them make money. But it is very hard to sincerely recommend them to anyone new to the business.

[SheepGuy]

Jayeff, I know what you mean. I use the free AVS's mostly as ways to promote my hub and other stuff, but I do list them on the hub and they make a few sales. I have yet to try the AEN stuff, but I'm going to look into it. I can't deal with Jan though if it's the same Jan the Man formerly of Certifier.
I didn't lose much with AC either because all of my eggs weren't in one basket, and though my sales are declining with all AVS's except ProAdult where I really can't upsell much because of their rules. Retention is great though.
I still like the Gold/Platinum/Pro/Quantum model because it forces me not to get lazy and I put a lot more time into promoting them and that pays off for some sites, not all.
It is a tricky biz for someone new tho, and you have to have your own traffic to do well, but with me it's pretty much on autopilot while I get into other things. And because I'm used to it I can put together a premium AVS site in less time than it would take me to make a freesite that would pass on LOR