Do we, as an adult webmaster community, oppose supporting adult versions of YouTube?

[Greenguy]

Originally Posted by spazlabz

...so please tell me how a sponsor hosted tube clone is any worse then LL, MGPs, TGPs or any other method that gives away free content...

Those are all the same business model.

I'd bet that most surfers don't know the difference between a free site or a gallery or a link list or a tgp or a mgp - they just know where to go to find links to porn.

Tube sites are a completely different business model that teaches the surfer that when they see a tube site, they can get a shitload of movies for free.

If you wanted to open one up & attach an affiliate program to it, go nuts. I would not promote it, but I understand why you'd want to do it.

Useless's post is probably how most (currently 75% of us) feel right now.

Out of the 7 YES votes, 5 are people affiliated with paysites/programs - that's fine by me - I'm not gonna help you get a tube site off the ground, but I'm not bashing anyone for exploring different ways to generate revenue (just like I would not bash a program for taking an ad out in a magazine)

[ClickBuster]

Originally Posted by Useless Warrior

Not at all.

I don't intend on sending surfers to any SINGLE page where they can be easily fed all the free movies they need.

Here's the gauntlet - slip it on. I challenge all sponsors who think tube sites are a good marketing concept to create your own such clone. Pack it full of your movie clips. I don't care if they're 15 seconds or 150 seconds. Push your traffic to that for a few months and watch your ROI drop. Go for it! What you'll discover is that surfers sit there from 10-60 minutes at a time. And you'll see a much lower click-thru ratio than that of TGP galleries or free sites. Much, much lower. (Just don't ask me to help you with bandwidth bill.) If you're still willing to ask affiliates to send traffic to it AFTER your own in-house tests, I'll assume you have great big balls simply packed full of crazy juice.

Also, make sure you hire the same non-English speaking designers to create your ads as you do on your hosted galleries.

How can you be 100% sure about that, since the vids on most of the Tube sites push different domains, watermarked in the video or after that? I bet that many of the potential customers type in the domain name of the site without going thru any ref codes and such.

I think the best way to find out is to start publishing vids promoting your own domain and see how that converts.

[Useless]

Originally Posted by ClickBuster

I think the best way to find out is to start publishing vids promoting your own domain and see how that converts.

It's all about the ROI, or lack there of. Sure, they'll be a limited amount of type-in traffic. Everything I've read about tube sites reports of a struggle to stay afloat. Can they be profitable? Of course. But the ROI is typically much lower than that of other mediums.

I truly fear for the sponsor's wallet that decides to launch a hosted tube clone for affiliate traffic. If you're paying out 50-60% or worse - $35PPS - you'll find bandwidth costs, even in this age of cheap BW, to be horribly cumbersome. Click-thru-wise, it'll potentially have a lower value than those damnable surfer boards where they post 25 hosted vid galleries in a single post. The surfer gets all he/she needs [of a site's content] in one spot.

[sabin]

An adult youtube is bound to happen, rather than fight it, lets just saturate it with 20 sec clicks with our urls and report stolen full length videos. At the end of the day, its another source of traffic.

[LowryBigwood]

Originally Posted by spazlabz

Would any of you be interested in using a clone of this type of thing if it was a hosted one by your sponsor? Lets say with advertisements all over the pages for the various sites the sponsor has and all with your link code automatically in every link.

This way the viral video thing is there but it is all hosted, you just direct your traffic there and the sponsors would be responsible for the duration of the clips and how each is pushed.


spaz

Ok, I first voted "no" but only b/c of user uploaded content/2257 worries. I do not have anything against the technology or people giving away more free clips, and I really don't see how others can sit here and talk about giving away an unlimitited supply of movies. WTF? You can get that now, no problem...

Anyways, as for myself, yes I would be interested in hosted / shared movies with the viral effect you are describing. What's not to like about that from a webmasters point of view? I do understand it is a different business model, but I for one am not afraid of changing with the times.

Also, I really don't think the bandwidth concern for the sponsor bothers me one bit. It's not my bill, so knock yourself out. I'll try promoting it most likely.

[spazlabz]

Originally Posted by sabin

An adult youtube is bound to happen, rather than fight it, lets just saturate it with 20 sec clicks with our urls and report stolen full length videos. At the end of the day, its another source of traffic.

Its already happened and been around for a i think a year or better


spaz

[bluebrit]

I voted no to this and probably always would. Even though it’s a source for free porn and i could add links to my sites through it, it’s too extensive and it’s probably going to be more than enough for most surfers to get off on. That being the case their never going to pay for something they can get free. Taking a step back though why do i feel like that?

Most people who have any interest in porn either from curiosity or from a real interest in buying, when purchasing their first pc will by the end of the first day have looked for porn to see how much of it is out there.

Chances are they would just type in sex or porn, tits or twats... makes no difference, they're going to get plenty of links to the content they want to see. If the tube is the one of the first places they come across they will be so flooded with free links they're unlikely to ever look anywhere else and with the amount of free content available they probably wouldn't bother paying for something they can get there for free. While i'm all for advertising porn and the availability of it, I don't want to see so much free porn given away. It's bad for all concerned when at the end of the day were looking to get surfers to pay for the content. Take this further and you will get to a point where virtually every niche will be available free of charge and once you reach that point you may as well pack your bags and find a new business plan or go bust. Free porn is the perfect tool to advertise a pay sites potential to the surfer in the hope of getting that all elusive sale because they want the content, their curious as hell to see more, or their genuinely into it and it’s a very unusual niche. Giving them a supply of endless links to free porn for that category or niche can't be productive if it's never going to generate sales. You want them curious, turned on and willing to buy, not swamped with a plethora of choice regarding which link they should look at next. Curiosity and a hardon are what sell, if their getting their kicks from thousands of free links to images or videos where is the sale in that? Looking at battle hardened surfers who have already paid for content it works slightly differently. They have already seen the sponsor site and know what’s available. They know what they want and they know where to get it. Again you find that surfer going to free porn through the tube and even though their not getting exclusive content neither are they tied to one sponsors content but they gain access too virtually all of them. The quality may not be as good and the length of movies may not be as long but given the diversity of choice they could stay on the free porn a long time before getting bored and deciding to pay for it once again if ever. They could decide I get my kicks here and I get porn movies on cable so why do I need to buy more porn? Either way it’s not hard to see this leading to a probable drop in sales both for affiliates and sponsors alike.

Maybe i'm wrong in the way i look at this... just my 2cents worth.

[xxxjay]

Originally Posted by Jim

I really don't see any benefit to anyone other than the people that own these sites and the sponsors. Assuming that adult programs go the same route as TV networks (except viacom). They will be happy to provide the video clips. And really, who can blame them?

But sooner or later, these youtube type sites are going to see that they are offering too much for free and adjust. Freesites didn't start out with only a few pictures. They started with 5 - 30 Thousand and saw money slipping through their (our) fingers.

the traffic for every video on mine goes to the sponsor that posted it

[emmanuelle]

Originally Posted by Greenie

Out of the 7 YES votes, 5 are people affiliated with paysites/programs - that's fine by me -

I voted yes, and it has nothing to do with having paysites of my own. I feel much the same way as Tommy posted. If I support free porn whatsoever, I'd be a hypocrite to come down on newer free porn enterprises that don't necessarily fit my business model. I have trouble with the concept of it being ok as long as it's within X # of parameters. As posted above, free porn = free porn = free porn

[tickler]

Still undecided yet, so I haven't voted.

The ideal of sponsor hosted tubes has me thinking that maybe something along the concept of ImageVenue, FileCloud, etc.

I post a thumb in a surfer forum, and they goto a page with a sample clip. filled with ads with my affiliate codes might be interesting.

[oldbrad]

I support the right for each person to make their own decisions for their own site, but dont think it's going to be good for affiliates to the same sites. It is, however, better than the rapidshare sites listing hundreds of full length 30 minute movies.

[Greenguy]

Originally Posted by emmanuelle

I voted yes, and it has nothing to do with having paysites of my own. I feel much the same way as Tommy posted. If I support free porn whatsoever, I'd be a hypocrite to come down on newer free porn enterprises that don't necessarily fit my business model. I have trouble with the concept of it being ok as long as it's within X # of parameters. As posted above, free porn = free porn = free porn

Let me ask you this: can you think of anything that has (or would) negatively effected your business model that you had (or would) supported/endorsed?

[SheepGuy]

I've always been opposed to free porn, but I don't live in a cave so I've adapted. I didn't vote, because it's none of my business, and it wouldn't make any difference anyways.
I disagree with it as a business model, I think it's short sighted, but I said the same thing about TGP's years ago. I was wrong then, I may be wrong now.
Live and let live, if I have to adapt I'll do my damndest to do so, right now I'm not particularly worried.
The sky always sems to be falling in this biz, I've gotten somewhat immune to worrying.

[tickler]

Originally Posted by oldbrad

It is, however, better than the rapidshare sites listing hundreds of full length 30 minute movies.

Full length 30 minute movies. I remember a discussion on the SoloGirlBoad about a few WMs asking Steve Lightspeed if there might be any bounties for identifying different places that were full site/DVD scrapes.

Hell, if I want to check out a new sponsor, I'll probably check out some of their DVDs(via RS or clones) before I start throwing PPC traffic at them. A lot of sponsors don't give you that much access if you are a newbie just asking. I don't know how many sponsors I have asked over the years to give me screen caps of their members area to use as an enticement for for surfers to join, and been turned down.

[JoeBlack]

Their will always be someone to support these programs so it doesnt really matter what we think. If these programs make the users money there going to use them plain and simple. Everyone here can say their against it but then go set up a pornotube account under another name and domain. Business models and all these things sound great but if one of these webmasters needs money to pay for food or meds or whatever for there family there going to use these sites and there is nothing we can or should do about it.

Webmasters went from putting random links up to sponsor sites to making picture link list and now there movie link list who decides whats next and ok?

This is a business and a great one and I hope it last forever but if we cant adapt to the changes that are coming then I dont know what we will do.

I do agree tho that some people are showing way to much but like I said theres nothing we can do about it.

So my stand point on it is how can you stop the internet ?

[walrus]

I voted no.

It's not that I think adult video sharing sites are bad and couldn't be an advantageous business model.

I just don't see this board, this community, as the proper place for it.

[Useless]

hy·poc·ri·sy (hĭ-pŏk'rĭ-sē)

-The practice of professing beliefs, feelings, or virtues that one does not hold or possess; falseness.
-An act or instance of such falseness.
-A show or expression of feelings or beliefs one does not actually hold or possess.
-deceitfulness, pretense
-Insincerity by pretending to have qualities or beliefs not really held.
-An expression of agreement that is not supported by real conviction.

There is absolutely NOTHING HYPOCRITICAL about disagreeing with, and not supporting, a different business model. It would be hypocritical if we, while never acknowledging that our minds had changed, quietly launched our own tube site or purchased advertising space on someone else's.

Free Porn is a business model. Not a philosophy, nor a belief system. If we all agreed with everything our fellow webmasters did, this board would be comprised of only a Good Morning thread, and even that would be dull. There are a LOT of concepts/practices in this business that I do not like, and I'll be damned if anyone is going to attempt to goat me in to feeling differently. Hypocrite is a loaded word. It is being used incorrectly and unfairly.

[Preacher]

it's goad

[Useless]

Originally Posted by Preacher

it's goad

Prick!

[xxxjay]

Originally Posted by emmanuelle

free porn = free porn = free porn

I couldn't have said it better.

Greenie was picking a fight with me over on another thread, but I don't really understand what the big deal is.

I have a "youtube style" site (www.snizzshare.com) - the video upload is closed. Every video that is posted link to the corresponding sponsor.

Snizzshare has 294 video clips on it at this point.

Link-o-rama has 24502 links out. If 20000 are to free sites, times say an average of 10 videos per site, then we are looking at 200,000 free porn clips online...the only thing that is different is the presentation.

I don't see what the big deal is.

Linklists and TGP were cutting edge 5 years ago. Now surfers want Web 2.0. You gotta keep with times or get left behind.

That's my 2 cents on this.

[Jim]

Originally Posted by emmanuelle

free porn = free porn = free porn

I don't think that is true. I think all of can agree that "free porn" that allows the surfer to get the job done without visiting a sponsor is not good for any part of this business. It not only hurts the free site, tgp and linklist owners but it also hurts the sponsor. And when the sponsor is hurt, we all hurt.

But after saying that, tube type sites look like they can work well if they are built properly. Snizzshare looks like it should work well. I would be curious as to how much money it makes vs how much money it costs. The biggest part of the problem a larger percentage of these sites don't seem to be looking toward the future at all.

I don't give a rats ass about the linklist and TGP business model. If anyone really thinks that the current business model will stay the same as more and more people get broadband access, they are crazy. But, this business as a whole can't survive if nobody has to join a paysite to get the content that gets the job done.

As a side note, I voted "No". But, I never meant my vote to mean, "Let's get pitchforks and chase these monsters away". My "No" vote was "No", I don't like the way these sites are currently doing business. With these sites growing faster than anything ever has, wouldn't it make more sense to educate the owners than to close your eyes and pretend they don't exist?

[Greenguy]

Originally Posted by xxxjay

...Greenie was picking a fight with me over on another thread, but I don't really understand what the big deal is...

I just found it really strange that a major Link List owner would not only support tube sites, but build one himself. But, I guess you stopped being a Link List owner & started being a Program Owner a long time ago. Sad.

Originally Posted by xxxjay

...Link-o-rama has 24502 links out. If 20000 are to free sites, times say an average of 10 videos per site, then we are looking at 200,000 free porn clips online...the only thing that is different is the presentation...

Well, I'm glad you know how many free sites I have as well as how many of them have movies, because I don't know that data. Thanks for posting your guesses about what's on MY site

(edit - I just looked: there's just over 23,000 free sites listed - that's a FACT. There's just over 8400 movie sites listed with 4-12 movies per site - probably an avg of 8/site - or 130,000 less than your guess)

[xxxjay]

Originally Posted by Greenie

I just found it really strange that a major Link List owner would not only support tube sites, but build one himself.

FYI: First, I shouldn't say that I support "tube sites" as you define them. I don't.

Shame on you for using your admin powers to post on the thread who voted how. If the goverment was so willy nilly with their voter information as you are, even less people would come out to vote.

Looking back I would have voted a flat "NO" actually.

If a "tube" site is a site that posts online a shitload of free content without giving the proper program credit or to leach traffic off someone elses content that is WRONG. That is where I stand there. We've sent plenty of publicly filed C&D's to these sites to prove it too!!!!!!!

That being said, I DIDN'T BUILD ONE MYSELF! Check your facts before you throw stones!

1. My upload is closed.
2. All of the sponsors get credit where credit is due.
3. Participation is by invite only.
4. The longest clip you will find anywhere on there is about 2 minutes, it non hardcore, and there are aren't many of them. Average clip is about 30 seconds - there are not hour long movies on that fucker!

Really, my site is a "fake tube" site.

Originally Posted by Greenie

But, I guess you stopped being a Link List owner & started being a Program Owner a long time ago. Sad.

That's news to me:

1. Did I shut any of my 3 links sites down? No.
2. Do I still take submissions daily for free? Yes.
3. Do I still pay to have a reviewer on staff to do reviews and correspond with webmasters on this board that want to be listed? Yes.
4. Do I add new categories to my linklist(s) based on the needs of submissions? Yes.

Just becasue I am not the "Johny Appleseed of free porn" doesn't mean I'm a sad case and besides where would the money for all these people owning linklists and submitting sites come from if it wasn't for us evil "program owners"?

Originally Posted by Greenie

Well, I'm glad you know how many free sites I have as well as how many of them have movies, because I don't know that data. Thanks for posting your guesses about what's on MY site

(edit - I just looked: there's just over 23,000 free sites listed - that's a FACT. There's just over 8400 movie sites listed with 4-12 movies per site - probably an avg of 8/site - or 130,000 less than your guess)

Whoops, excuse the fuck out of me. I arrived at my number by taking the total number of free listings (my guess was somewhere around 20,000) and multiplying it by 10 becasue each site might have that number of pieces of free content. I guess you got me on the photo technicality.

Whatever, it doesn't really matter. Now that I have the correct numbers, estimating on the low side:

8400 x 6 = 50400 free movies on LOR divided 316 Free Movies on snizzshare.com = 159 more times free porn online with LOR

How the fuck am I the bad guy? I just don't get it?

Come on Greenie? Let's face it. It is not 1998 anymore. Things must progress. We've both been doing this over 10 years now and in internet time that may as well be centuries.

Is Google bad becasue it killed Excite? Nope, just offered a better product.

Is Myspace bad becasue it killed Friendster? Is Greenguy and Jim bad beause it killed Adultnetsuprise (oh, that was a good one)?

No. They just offered a superiour product.

Better yet, is the internet bad becasue it killed magizine sales? I think everyone can agree it's been good for all of us.

Right as we piss away on this board there is generations of potential adult customers are turning of age that grew up on Web 2.0 platforms like youtube and myspace. They are not going to crawl their way through link-dumps and warning pages like their parents did. They are going to go with something they know and the more it looks like something they are already familiar with the more they will like the site.

At the end of the day, all you are really rallying against is the design of my site, becasue what I am doing isn't anything we both haven't been doing for years:

Putting free porn online.

Things change fast in this game. You can stand back and be bitter that your business model may be becoming obsolete or you can try to keep up with times. Either way those that stay tied to the tracks of Internet circa 2001 will get run over by a train...

It's called progress!

[JaceXXX]

new things come out and people evolve every day, if you don't take the new things and make them your own and profit off them in your own ways you will fall behind

the times are changing, you can either take shit and mold it RIGHT NOW, or fall behind and wonder what happened down the road

[Linkster]

The problem here is that we are comparing apples and oranges - something like Jays site where the uploads are private and linked to a sponsor with an affiliate code are completely different than a public upload site like youtube where anyone can post anything and the revenue comes from page - loads using something like Adsense.

So voting on this is kinda like voting on whether you like hosted free sites competing with your free sites that you submit to a LL